Speculation: Roster Building Thread: New Season Edition

[haohmaru]

Genuinely curious: do you know how often picks 25+ are traded to move UP in the draft? If NYR are going to trade a pick I'd rather it be to move UP in this draft, even if it's BOTH 1sts depending who is available...
Imagine if Michkov falls out of the top 3 or 5 or 8 due to his contract and the Russia situation... bottom feeding teams could very well balk at having to wait for him till his fourth year past the draft...
Yes, fat chance, but...

Very little and, even if that’s the case, it’s usually moving up a couple of spots and not into the top 5-10.

 

[mas0764]

Genuinely curious: do you know how often picks 25+ are traded to move UP in the draft? If NYR are going to trade a pick I'd rather it be to move UP in this draft, even if it's BOTH 1sts depending who is available...
Imagine if Michkov falls out of the top 3 or 5 or 8 due to his contract and the Russia situation... bottom feeding teams could very well balk at having to wait for him till his fourth year past the draft...
Yes, fat chance, but...

Stranger things have happened.

 

[haohmaru]

He was 13th in the league in even-strength points last year.

I’d rather be drafting #13 than having the 13th leading scorer for a few weeks.

 

[bhamill]

Very little and, even if that’s the case, it’s usually moving up a couple of spots and not into the top 5-10.

Well even if its a couple of spots it's still a first round pick... it seems like NYR do it not so infrequently. Ill have to go back and look.
Edit: Brayden Schneider and Lias Anderson were both move ups using our first right? Wait, Miller too. I mean that's three times in like six years.

 

[haohmaru]

Well even if its a couple of spots it's still a first round pick... it seems like NYR do it not so infrequently. Ill have to go back and look.
Edit: Brayden Schneider and Lias Anderson were both move ups using our first right? Wait, Miller too. I mean that's three times in like six years.

It can be the case if they’ve scouted a player and didn’t expect them to fall to where they did like Miller - they were pretty high on him and wanted to be 100% that they could pick him.

 

[bhamill]

It can be the case if they’ve scouted a player and didn’t expect them to fall to where they did like Miller - they were pretty high on him and wanted to be 100% that they could pick him.

Exactly. I was just mulling over the fact that 25+ picks are traded more often than kept and it seems like flip-flops are a very big part of that, more than making a trade that leaves you without a pick.

 

[Thirty One]

I’d rather be drafting #13 than having the 13th leading scorer for a few weeks.

Well everything I've seen about this regime suggests that they would prefer the elite scorer for the few weeks that the Stanley Cup will be decided. So I would prepare yourself.

 

[bhamill]

Well everything I've seen about this regime suggests that they would prefer the elite scorer for the few weeks that the Stanley Cup will be decided. So I would prepare yourself.

Drury? Because of the Copp trade? I don't see a ton of precedence since it's only been one season... Or are you saying it's Sather?

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I’d rather be drafting #13 than having the 13th leading scorer for a few weeks.

Are we removing from the equation the fact that the few weeks we'd be adding this player for would be the playoffs with the hopes of winning the Stanley Cup, which is the whole point of all of this? Seems important to mention.

I'm not saying I would even want to trade one of our firsts for Kane (I wouldn't and definitely not the Dallas one) but if trading for Kane is in the cards you can't dismiss it without acknowledging how adding a player that good for a playoff run really strengthens the forward group to go after a cup. A Kane type player in our forward group last year could've been the difference between us puttering out where we did and us winning the cup, we were that close already.

So much has to happen between now and the TDL it's not even really worth discussing that much at this point because so much can and will change.

 

[kinger8998]

Thankfully defensemen who don't play the man advantage usually get underpaid around the league.

I've said before I think Miller-Fox, Jones-Trouba, Lindgren-Schneider makes a lot of sense as the players develop. Jones will get better defensively. You get a 2nd pair quality guy on the 3rd pair in Lindgren, similar to Kevin Klein.

I think this also makes a lot of sense, with one exception I'd change. If Lindgren isn't with Fox, and even if he would be, I still think he's the odd salary out this summer. Worth $3M can be replaced with $900K Robertson. If Miller is going to move up and take his spot anyways, we're better served to go through the rookie kinks with Robertson than pay $3M+ for a 3rd pair defender.

But I think Miller is absolutely slated to eventually move up there as soon as next year. Not sure on how that pair would work, they both like to have the puck alot and we've put pairs on paper (albeit with defensemen not as good as those two) that looked good but turned out horribly ... Remember McDonagh-Shatt?

Either way, Fox elevates his partner so even if Miller-Trouba stay intact and continue to take tougher mnatchups while Fox continues to be himself, helps Robertson ease in with Jones/Schneider stay together, we'd be just fine.

Miller-Fox
Jones-Trouba
Robertson-Schneider

or

Miller-Trouba
Robertson-Fox
Jones-Schneider

 

[NYR Viper]

If Trochek comes in and proves he's capable of playing with Panarin and in all situations, I think I would be more apt to trade Chytil for futures (or cheap young NHL player + pick) than buyout Goodrow. There will be bargain bin guys available to play 3C and PK. If Trochek and Zibanejad are the plan long term they both PK and play on the PP, Chytil becomes a luxury and I'd rather trade from that position than buyout a player who's cap hit is going to be with the team for 6 years.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

If Trochek comes in and proves he's capable of playing with Panarin and in all situations, I think I would be more apt to trade Chytil for futures (or cheap young NHL player + pick) than buyout Goodrow. There will be bargain bin guys available to play 3C and PK. If Trochek and Zibanejad are the plan long term they both PK and play on the PP, Chytil becomes a luxury and I'd rather trade from that position than buyout a player who's cap hit is going to be with the team for 6 years.

Might be a hot take but from what I've seen, I think Chytil will be a better player, more appropriate to play in the top 6 than Trochek by the end of this season. I think Trochek becomes our 3C and Goodrow becomes the luxury we can't afford in our bottom 6.

 

[kinger8998]

Genuinely curious: do you know how often picks 25+ are traded to move UP in the draft? If NYR are going to trade a pick I'd rather it be to move UP in this draft, even if it's BOTH 1sts depending who is available...
Imagine if Michkov falls out of the top 3 or 5 or 8 due to his contract and the Russia situation... bottom feeding teams could very well balk at having to wait for him till his fourth year past the draft...
Yes, fat chance, but...

I agree with the premise and the logic used.

But with everyone using this logic saying the 2023 draft class is one of the best in a while, why do you think its only NYR valuing their draft picks at this point.

Any team with a top 10 pick I guarantee values a pick like that in a draft like this a lot more than picks 16(I think Dallas is a playoff team)+28 after sucking the hind tit the entire season. In a draft thats not heralded like this one, sure, maybe a team goes for multiple first rounders instead of a high one.

But from what I understand in this draft is while you have the potential to get impact players late into first round, there is still a significant dropoff between how good the top talent is to where the late 1st rounders are. No team that wasted a season toiling below 500 is passing that up. If the late round is that good that you don't want to move it for a rental, and the top 10-12 is that much better, then that tells you how good they are and how highly that pick will be valued.

This isn't NHL 22 where 2 1sts automatically get you the 5th overall choice on Easy trade difficulty. Drury and Rangers aren't the only ones valuing 1st round picks. It'a all moot point anyways, Drurys focus I can say with 99% certainty is moving the 2nd 1st for a rental as opposed to moving into the top 10 of a draft during a contention window. How often do we see contending teams save draft picks to get a top 10 pick as opposed to moving it for a rental and a better shot at winning?

 

[kinger8998]

Might be a hot take but from what I've seen, I think Chytil will be a better player, more appropriate to play in the top 6 than Trochek by the end of this season. I think Trochek becomes our 3C and Goodrow becomes the luxury we can't afford in our bottom 6.

Oh god that one be one horrible contract for the bottom 6. Not that I disagree about Chytil potentially being better. its just yikes. Ideally we wouldn't have signed Trocheck and let Chytil get the reps there, but we are in a Cup window and Drury identified his guy and got him. Can't blame him. Trocheck looked great on PP1 and I liked his game quite a bit. But it certainly does block Chytil, who between playoffs and early returns certainly looked to have it figured out finally,

Hopefully we can get Chytil Signed to a reasonable LT contract (5-6x4.something?, move Goodrow and Lindgren and Blais. let reaves walk or sign for league min, get a cheaper backup, replace with Othmann, Cuylle and cheap signings and keep that 1-3 C depth that makes us a threat. its finally that C depth we missed during Hanks window

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Oh god that one be one horrible contract for the bottom 6. Not that I disagree about Chytil potentially being better. its just yikes. Ideally we wouldn't have signed Trocheck and let Chytil get the reps there, but we are in a Cup window and Drury identified his guy and got him. Can't blame him. Trocheck looked great on PP1 and I liked his game quite a bit. But it certainly does block Chytil, who between playoffs and early returns certainly looked to have it figured out finally,

Hopefully we can get Chytil Signed to a reasonable LT contract (5-6x4.something?, move Goodrow and Lindgren and Blais. let reaves walk or sign for league min, get a cheaper backup, replace with Othmann, Cuylle and cheap signings and keep that 1-3 C depth that makes us a threat. its finally that C depth we missed during Hanks window

Yeah I still see Trochek as necessary depth down the middle regardless. He's still a good player but I think there is a decent chance that Chytil really takes off. He has the size and skating ability to be a pretty damn good 2C. I think Trochek would probably be one of the top 3C's in the NHL. Overall, it's good news for the Rangers if Chytil takes off.

 

[kinger8998]

Well even if its a couple of spots it's still a first round pick... it seems like NYR do it not so infrequently. Ill have to go back and look.
Edit: Brayden Schneider and Lias Anderson were both move ups using our first right? Wait, Miller too. I mean that's three times in like six years.

Using 1 first not 2. it was 1 first plus a lower pick, which, by the way, we still have our 3rd. If you use two first to move up 2 spots, that is horrible asset management, especially if the draft is as deep as claimed to be. Anderson may have been 2 firsts but lets forget about that pick entirely.

And while the draft is deep, there is still a significant falloff between talent in top 10 and bottom 10 of 1st round. Rangers are aware of that, as are other teams. If the bottom 10 is as good as it is that we don't want to move the 28-32 selection, then that tells you how good the top 10-12 would be if theres a gap between the two. Teams will not give that away for pennies on the dollar, which is what we would be offering.

Laf, Kakko, Miller, Schneider, Krav and Anderson, Othmann makes for 6 first round picks in 4 years since 2018 rebuild started. 4/6 of those look great, thr 2/6 being Anderson and Krav. Maybe we can salvage Krav into a dealdine acquisition that helps us bring the elusive Cup back home to NY this year. But we had our first rounders to get the talent. We have our core.

We don't need to stockpile picks every year. Sometimes its okay to move the first, don't forget, we didn't throw away our first last year, it was conditioned that if Copp worked out the way it was planned when he was acquired, they'd get our 1st. And it did work out, we made a deep run, game the defending Cup champs almost all they could handle, and this core team had their first deep playoff run for experience, and will be better for it.

Gotta give to get. Wanna get the Cup, sometimes you gotta give to make the right additions to bring it home.

 

[kinger8998]

Yeah I still see Trochek as necessary depth down the middle regardless. He's still a good player but I think there is a decent chance that Chytil really takes off. He has the size and skating ability to be a pretty damn good 2C. I think Trochek would probably be one of the top 3C's in the NHL. Overall, it's good news for the Rangers if Chytil takes off.

Depending on line setup, they'd likely be interchangeable as 2/3. I just hope he continue gradual progression this season so his AAV can stay reasonable on a LT deal then once hes signed the dotted line he can bust open next season. Would be a shame to lose a homegrown player like Chytil. its been nice to see him develop and grow and not whine when he went to AHL or things didn't come right away and he switched ebtween W and C. He put his head down, worked, and is getting rewarded for it. He's one of my favorite 1st rounders of them all, may not be the best, and I was ready to include him in a deal this summer for a 2C if he didn't have the playoffs he had.

Whoever is in that 3C slot if Chytil makes it a quesion, it gives us 3 really really well centered lines for a deep top 9. Remember how outmatched we were in 2014 with Brass-Step-Richards against Kopitar-Richards-Carter. I loved all 3 centres, especially Richards he was one of my favorites. Was defacto leader after Cally got traded for MSL, and I have his signed jersey at home, but we were just outclassed

 

[DanielBrassard]

Might be a hot take but from what I've seen, I think Chytil will be a better player, more appropriate to play in the top 6 than Trochek by the end of this season. I think Trochek becomes our 3C and Goodrow becomes the luxury we can't afford in our bottom 6.

I like Fil but I'd say it's highly unlikely that he's higher on the depth chart than Trocheck anytime soon.

 

[SA16]

I don't think buying out Goodrow is in the plans unless he has a terrible season or there's like zero alternative. Do you think Drury sold the signing to Dolan as "We're going to pay Barclay Goodrow 15.5M to play for us for 2 years?" and that he'd actually be on board with that?

 

[GAGLine]

Well even if its a couple of spots it's still a first round pick... it seems like NYR do it not so infrequently. Ill have to go back and look.
Edit: Brayden Schneider and Lias Anderson were both move ups using our first right? Wait, Miller too. I mean that's three times in like six years.

Using 1 first not 2. it was 1 first plus a lower pick, which, by the way, we still have our 3rd. If you use two first to move up 2 spots, that is horrible asset management, especially if the draft is as deep as claimed to be. Anderson may have been 2 firsts but lets forget about that pick entirely.

We drafted Lias Andersson with the pick we got from Arizona for Stepan. We didn't trade up to get him.

We traded up for Schneider (22nd overall and 72nd overall for 19th overall).
We traded up for Miller (26th overall and 48th overall for 22nd overall).

We traded up for Marc Staal way back when. We supposedly tried to trade up for other players in recent drafts, but could not get a deal done.

 

[kinger8998]

I like Fil but I'd say it's highly unlikely that he's higher on the depth chart than Trocheck anytime soon.

He may blossom into a better player as OG poster said, but I also would tend to side with you here that he will likely not "surpass" him on the depth chart anytime soon, or depending on how long each repsectives NYR career is, ever.

I hope thats not the case, and that Fil outlasts Trocheck and the blockage at 2C and the $$$ that comes with it doesn't price out Fil. I like both players, and think they will both be great for us the season, and hope we find a way to fit them both LT and make it work

We drafted Lias Andersson with the pick we got from Arizona for Stepan. We didn't trade up to get him.

We traded up for Schneider (22nd overall and 72nd overall for 19th overall).
We traded up for Miller (26th overall and 48th overall for 22nd overall).

We traded up for Marc Staal way back when. We supposedly tried to trade up for other players in recent drafts, but could not get a deal done.

Good catch. tried to totally forget about Anderson so hence why i didn't really remember details.

Trend to notice: Its late 1st + different round pick for less than 5 spots up. Trading 2 firsts for 1 first happens much less often, and I'd argue its rarely ever a bottom feeder trading their top 10 to a contender for two playoff teams 1st rounders.

(not directed at post I'm replying to) keep dreaming of holding onto both 1sts to get into top 10, but thats exactly what it'll be, a dream. Much more likely we either keep pick and use a 3rd to move up to get a specific guy we want late in 1st round thats falling, or much, much, much more likely we use it at TDL

 

[bhamill]

Using 1 first not 2. it was 1 first plus a lower pick, which, by the way, we still have our 3rd. If you use two first to move up 2 spots, that is horrible asset management, especially if the draft is as deep as claimed to be. Anderson may have been 2 firsts but lets forget about that pick entirely.

And while the draft is deep, there is still a significant falloff between talent in top 10 and bottom 10 of 1st round. Rangers are aware of that, as are other teams. If the bottom 10 is as good as it is that we don't want to move the 28-32 selection, then that tells you how good the top 10-12 would be if theres a gap between the two. Teams will not give that away for pennies on the dollar, which is what we would be offering.

Laf, Kakko, Miller, Schneider, Krav and Anderson, Othmann makes for 6 first round picks in 4 years since 2018 rebuild started. 4/6 of those look great, thr 2/6 being Anderson and Krav. Maybe we can salvage Krav into a dealdine acquisition that helps us bring the elusive Cup back home to NY this year. But we had our first rounders to get the talent. We have our core.

We don't need to stockpile picks every year. Sometimes its okay to move the first, don't forget, we didn't throw away our first last year, it was conditioned that if Copp worked out the way it was planned when he was acquired, they'd get our 1st. And it did work out, we made a deep run, game the defending Cup champs almost all they could handle, and this core team had their first deep playoff run for experience, and will be better for it.

Gotta give to get. Wanna get the Cup, sometimes you gotta give to make the right additions to bring it home.

Yes those were using A first, and a second in at least one case. My point was simply to look at how often those first round picks are traded in deals for other picks. Flip flops if you will.
I was not at all saying its common to trade two firsts in a draft for a better one, but it's not an impossibility especially if someone like Michkov is slipping. It's simply MY preference to make that sort of deal than for a rental. Lawd knows what Drury will do.
Keeping two firsts in a deep year is not exactly stockpiling every pick... we traded away our first and about four other picks last year... I'd say we don't need to, and probably shouldn't, trade too many picks, especially a first, every year...
Yes you've gotta give to get... but that massive give doesn't come close to guaranteeing a cup, so far as I can see, but definitely impacts a number of years after negatively. It's all cost/benefit balance. We just see those two things differently.

 

[bhamill]

We drafted Lias Andersson with the pick we got from Arizona for Stepan. We didn't trade up to get him.

We traded up for Schneider (22nd overall and 72nd overall for 19th overall).
We traded up for Miller (26th overall and 48th overall for 22nd overall).

We traded up for Marc Staal way back when. We supposedly tried to trade up for other players in recent drafts, but could not get a deal done.

Ah, thank you. I thought our first was also involved in that trade for some reason. I'm getting old. So two out of last six drafts we have traded a late first to move up in the first. My point being that these flip flops probably make up a great part of late round firsts that are dealt.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Well even if its a couple of spots it's still a first round pick... it seems like NYR do it not so infrequently. Ill have to go back and look.
Edit: Brayden Schneider and Lias Anderson were both move ups using our first right? Wait, Miller too. I mean that's three times in like six years.

They moved up for the great Lauri Korpikoski

 

[bhamill]

He may blossom into a better player as OG poster said, but I also would tend to side with you here that he will likely not "surpass" him on the depth chart anytime soon, or depending on how long each repsectives NYR career is, ever.

I hope thats not the case, and that Fil outlasts Trocheck and the blockage at 2C and the $$$ that comes with it doesn't price out Fil. I like both players, and think they will both be great for us the season, and hope we find a way to fit them both LT and make it work


Good catch. tried to totally forget about Anderson so hence why i didn't really remember details.

Trend to notice: Its late 1st + different round pick for less than 5 spots up. Trading 2 firsts for 1 first happens much less often, and I'd argue its rarely ever a bottom feeder trading their top 10 to a contender for two playoff teams 1st rounders.

(not directed at post I'm replying to) keep dreaming of holding onto both 1sts to get into top 10, but thats exactly what it'll be, a dream. Much more likely we either keep pick and use a 3rd to move up to get a specific guy we want late in 1st round thats falling, or much, much, much more likely we use it at TDL

Well I did say "fat chance." Point being, in my view, holding them both this year has more value than trading for a rental, even if you are speculating that it is "much, much, much more likely we use it at TDL."