Speculation: Roster Building Thread: New Season Edition

[mas0764]

Rangers management will figure something out like they always do. Isnt the cap projected to go up next summer?

Yeah but saying “they will figure something out,” is kind of a cop out. Isn’t that like admitting your proposal doesn’t work, but that you will trust someone else to come up with how to make it work?

Like, I want to buy a mansion. I don’t have the money to do that, but I’m sure when I’m ready to buy next year my wife will have figured out how to afford it all.

That’s what we are here to discuss; it’s a roster building thread. The financial implications are part of the discussion and what is being proposed is not financially possible. Saying that you expect Drury to figure out how to do something that’s financially impossible or near impossible isn’t really realistic.

Also, Rangers management doesn’t always figure it out. They had to trade Buch for basically nothing because they couldn’t figure it out; kind of also directly related to some of their foolish buyout decisions.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Kravtsov lasted 1m30s before being injured this season. Had one of the worst preseasons of anyone, and bolted for Russia last year. In 21 NHL games he has 4 points. At what point do we admit getting an allstar dealdine acqusiition with 2 cups for a run with a team that already has a great shot at it is a win in itself.

We would be turning a 28th overall pick and a FIVE YEARS REMOVED 1st round pick who was even a reach at the time into a FUTURE HOFer, probably allstar this year, with 2 cups, and one of the best wingers and players in the game today STILL. It's not like we're going for the washed up Bure on one knee in 2002 folks, its Patrick Kane, still able to be a game changer every night.



1st round picks don't have the value in real life that they do in NHL 22. A 28th overall pick is closer to a 2nd rounder than it is a 1st round pick we should be losing sleep over.

You can Madison Avenue this all you want but you’ll never convince me that a 28th or for that matter a 32nd 1st round pick is closer to a second round pick than a first round pick.
The 28th pick is in the first round and therefore it is a first round pick.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

K’Andre Miller looks poised for a monstrous break-out-season.
Wouldn’t be surprised if he is offer-sheeted by another club. Philadelphia tried to sign RFA Shea Weber a little over a decade ago with a 14 year, 110 million dollar deal with all crazy signing bonuses (no longer allowed under the current CBA) and I can’t blame them. K’Andre Miller is shaping up to being a foundational generational player.
If Drury’s and his agent can’t get something done before the end of June I wouldn’t be surprised if he is moved.
If there is one thing I have learned in his short tenure as Ranger’s G.M., Chris Drury does not walk away from assets.

 

[mas0764]

You can Madison Avenue this all you want but you’ll never convince me that a 28th or for that matter a 32nd 1st round pick is closer to a second round pick than a first round pick.
The 28th pick is in the first round and therefore it is a first round pick.

If the point is that the 28th talent is closer to the 33rd than the 5th, obviously that's true.

But that's not the end of the story. You can package firsts. Trade up. There's still a better chance of finding a Chytil or Brayden Point at 28 than there is at 40.

K’Andre Miller looks poised for a monstrous break-out-season.
Wouldn’t be surprised if he is offer-sheeted by another club. Philadelphia tried to sign RFA Shea Weber a little over a decade ago with a 14 year, 110 million dollar deal with all crazy signing bonuses (no longer allowed under the current CBA) and I can’t blame them. K’Andre Miller is shaping up to being a foundational generational player.
If Drury’s and his agent can’t get something done before the end of June I wouldn’t be surprised if he is moved.
If there is one thing I have learned in his short tenure as Ranger’s G.M., Chris Drury does not walk away from assets.

If Philadelphia wanted to pay $9m a year for Miller and give me it's next four first round picks including their pick in the coming draft I think I live with that and they can have K'Andre. I'm possibly landing Mitchkov, Bedard or Fantilli, and I'll take a D like Caden Price with a later first.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

K’Andre Miller looks poised for a monstrous break-out-season.
Wouldn’t be surprised if he is offer-sheeted by another club. Philadelphia tried to sign RFA Shea Weber a little over a decade ago with a 14 year, 110 million dollar deal with all crazy signing bonuses (no longer allowed under the current CBA) and I can’t blame them. K’Andre Miller is shaping up to being a foundational generational player.
If Drury’s and his agent can’t get something done before the end of June I wouldn’t be surprised if he is moved.
If there is one thing I have learned in his short tenure as Ranger’s G.M., Chris Drury does not walk away from assets.

They're not trading Miller, c'mon now. He'll be bridged and then he'll get paid two years after.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

If the point is that the 28th talent is closer to the 33rd than the 5th, obviously that's true.

But that's not the end of the story. You can package firsts. Trade up. There's still a better chance of finding a Chytil or Brayden Point at 28 than there is at 40.



If Philadelphia wanted to pay $9m a year for Miller and give me it's next four first round picks including their pick in the coming draft I think I live with that and they can have K'Andre. I'm possibly landing Mitchkov, Bedard or Fantilli, and I'll take a D like Caden Price with a later first.

Players successfully offered sheeted in 2022

According to CapFreindly:



Competition picks would start with the 2023 NHL draft.



$1 - $1,386,490

no compensation



$1,386,491 - $2,100,742

(1) third round pick



$2,100,743 - $4,201,488

(1) second round pick



$4,201,489 - $6,302,230

(1) first round pick

(1) third round pick



$6,302,231 - $8,402,975

(1) first round pick

(1) second round pick

(1) third round pick



$8,402,976 - $10,503,720

(2) first round picks

(1) second round pick

(1) third round pick



$10,503,721 - ∞

(4) first round picks


Four 1st round picks doesn’t start till after $10,503,721.

Also as far as the point the poster was making about a late first being closer to a second just seems too arbitrary. A 1st is a first and a 2nd is a second.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

They're not trading Miller, c'mon now. He'll be bridged and then he'll get paid two years after.

If they don’t have a deal in place by free agency Miller can be offer a contract by another team and if I am understanding it correctly once it gets to that point the Rangers can only match or lose him. What if Drury’s highest bridge offer is not accepted by the Miller camp?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If they don’t have a deal in place by free agency Miller can be offer a contract by another team and if I am understanding it correctly once it gets to that point the Rangers can only match or lose him. What if Drury’s highest bridge offer is not accepted by the Miller camp?

You're freaking out over nothing lol.

If they need to move a player or 2 to fit him in, they'll do it.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

If the point is that the 28th talent is closer to the 33rd than the 5th, obviously that's true.

But that's not the end of the story. You can package firsts. Trade up. There's still a better chance of finding a Chytil or Brayden Point at 28 than there is at 40.



If Philadelphia wanted to pay $9m a year for Miller and give me it's next four first round picks including their pick in the coming draft I think I live with that and they can have K'Andre. I'm possibly landing Mitchkov, Bedard or Fantilli, and I'll take a D like Caden Price with a later first.

It would start with 2024 picks not 2023

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

If they don’t have a deal in place by free agency Miller can be offer a contract by another team and if I am understanding it correctly once it gets to that point the Rangers can only match or lose him. What if Drury’s highest bridge offer is not accepted by the Miller camp?

I have every confidence in the world that they will figure out a way to keep Miller.

 

[McRanger92]

I think both are. If the point is that Cup winners add middle six grinders/shut down players, I’d argue you can find them for far less than a first round pick and/or Kravtsov. Copp basically was acquired for two seconds and everyone was far more accepting of that trade; if you could have kept the first round escalator off I would have loved that trade.

I also have said that renting is “rarely” a good idea, not that it never is a good idea.

For a team like Pittsburgh there is no preventing a full scale rebuild coming in like 2 years. Why not trade a first this year, even to only marginally improve your Cup chances? The first isn’t going to move the needle for you to prevent or change the different tear-down type moves that are coming and the fact that they will be seeking multiple top 5 or top 10 picks once Crosby and Malkin are gone.

Conversely the Rangers are entering a period where they hope to be contending for an extended period of time and winning multiple Cups. They need multiple young Chytil-or-better-level forwards (centers) still for their pipeline to accomplish that goal with no other real way to get them since they are cap strapped. They need those firsts to fill needs for what they’ve been building for, and a 5% increase in their Cup chances this year doesn’t come close to outweighing the chance to fill those needs.

I cant argue with the points you've made here but I will say with 2 firsts, the Rangers are well equipped to buy at the deadline AND be able to backfill prospects with the pick they got for Lundkvist. If you can acquire Kane (who is still an elite producer in a position of need with known chemistry with our best winger) using assets like Krav/Blais/one of the two firsts and lesser picks & prospects, I think its very enticing. It doesn't guarantee a Cup because nothing does, but wed have as good a chance as anyone and yes I'm including Colorado in that.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

NYR had a very strong showing in our U23 poll series on the mainboards.

One of the biggest arguments was about K'Andre Miller - some had him on the top pairing, some didn't even have him in the Honourable Mentions.

Also, Garand was voted heavily in the goalie polls, but came up just below Levi for the final HM spot.

Laf will be on this list for a couple more years, do you think anyone in the Ranger's system could fight there way in?

 

[IDvsEGO]

I cant argue with the points you've made here but I will say with 2 firsts, the Rangers are well equipped to buy at the deadline AND be able to backfill prospects with the pick they got for Lundkvist. If you can acquire Kane (who is still an elite producer in a position of need with known chemistry with our best winger) using assets like Krav/Blais/one of the two firsts and lesser picks & prospects, I think its very enticing. It doesn't guarantee a Cup because nothing does, but wed have as good a chance as anyone and yes I'm including Colorado in that.

Let’s pump the breaks on “known chemistry”
Panarin produced a fairly average season statistically when playing with Kane. He performed better with strome and Blackwell than he did with Kane.
Did Kane have a great year? Absolutely. But Panarin is the better player now. Not Kane. So any moves should be looked at, what makes our team/Panarin better.

 

[McRanger92]

The Rangers need to trade Goodrow to be able to extend their young players already here like Miller, Laf, and Kakko.

Buyout this offseason for sure. Its structured to be very team friendly the next 2 years with cap credit's in each, then the largest hit is in 26-27, which coincidentally is when Panarin & Trouba's contracts are up and the cap will have risen significantly. Very shrewd move by Drury with how he negotiated the buyout, even if the contract wasn't great.

Let’s pump the breaks on “known chemistry”
Panarin produced a fairly average season statistically when playing with Kane. He performed better with strome and Blackwell than he did with Kane.
Did Kane have a great year? Absolutely. But Panarin is the better player now. Not Kane. So any moves should be looked at, what makes our team/Panarin better.

They played with each other in the past and are close friends, if that's not "known chemistry" we're just disagreeing over semantics

 

[McRanger92]

I have every confidence in the world that they will figure out a way to keep Miller.

1 game into the season and were talking about K'Andre getting traded lol. More likely he is a Ranger for the next 10 years. They aren't letting this kid go anywhere.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Buyout this offseason for sure. Its structured to be very team friendly the next 2 years with cap credit's in each, then the largest hit is in 26-27, which coincidentally is when Panarin & Trouba's contracts are up and the cap will have risen significantly. Very shrewd move by Drury with how he negotiated the buyout, even if the contract wasn't great.



They played with each other in the past and are close friends, if that's not "known chemistry" we're just disagreeing over semantics

Known chemistry is “when they play together they produce more than the sum of their average individual production”

 

[kinger8998]

Known chemistry is “when they play together they produce more than the sum of their average individual production”

Panarin also wasn't the player he is today when he was playing with Kane, he was a 1st and 2nd year in NA and NHL. Thinking because Panarin had better point totals without Kane because he got better means he and Kane won't still work together the same way they did is backwards.
They'll still play together the same way, within the teams system. But Panarin is better than he was the first time around so the upside is higher. Of course, it may not work, and that would be the luck of the draw, but they worked great together the first time, Panarin got better, and Kanes still the same. Should work the same, but better.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Panarin also wasn't the player he is today when he was playing with Kane, he was a 1st and 2nd year in NA and NHL. Thinking because Panarin had better point totals without Kane because he got better means he and Kane won't still work together the same way they did is backwards.
They'll still play together the same way, within the teams system. But Panarin is better than he was the first time around so the upside is higher. Of course, it may not work, and that would be the luck of the draw, but they worked great together the first time, Panarin got better, and Kanes still the same. Should work the same, but better.

Couple of things. Kane isn’t “the same” Kane’s not the same player he was when Panarin was on the hawks, not saying he’s bad, but now I’m not sure kane makes our pp1, and that’s where a large volume of his points come from.

 

[bhamill]

I think Lafreniere and Trocheck could have great chemistry

And that is a LOT of physical grit on a top two line...

 

[PuckLuck3043]

If they don’t have a deal in place by free agency Miller can be offer a contract by another team and if I am understanding it correctly once it gets to that point the Rangers can only match or lose him. What if Drury’s highest bridge offer is not accepted by the Miller camp?

Please stop. All I read all off season was that Kakko was going to get an offer sheet and we would lose hit. He got nothing. Offer sheets are rare. The Rangers aren't going to lose Miller.

 

[Fitzy]

Thankfully defensemen who don't play the man advantage usually get underpaid around the league.

I've said before I think Miller-Fox, Jones-Trouba, Lindgren-Schneider makes a lot of sense as the players develop. Jones will get better defensively. You get a 2nd pair quality guy on the 3rd pair in Lindgren, similar to Kevin Klein.

 

[cheech70]

K’Andre Miller looks poised for a monstrous break-out-season.
Wouldn’t be surprised if he is offer-sheeted by another club. Philadelphia tried to sign RFA Shea Weber a little over a decade ago with a 14 year, 110 million dollar deal with all crazy signing bonuses (no longer allowed under the current CBA) and I can’t blame them. K’Andre Miller is shaping up to being a foundational generational player.
If Drury’s and his agent can’t get something done before the end of June I wouldn’t be surprised if he is moved.
If there is one thing I have learned in his short tenure as Ranger’s G.M., Chris Drury does not walk away from assets.

Filip,K2 were pretty simple and KAM will just get in line and be rich before he is 30.

 

[bhamill]

Well only one team can make "the biggest splash" and 16 teams make the playoffs so it would stand to reason the vast majority of the time that team does not win.

Yeah. It's a hard one to call. Does the "big splash team" win more than 6.25% of the time? And also how favored was that team to win the cup even before the TDL?
That being said the very fact that the "big splashers" don't win the majority of the time shows that it's certainly no guarantee. Even if they win at double the rate of any of the other 15 teams, 13% of the time, or triple 19.5% of the time, is paying a huge price for a 6.5 or 13% increase in your chances, as compared to other teams, worth it? That is still 80% or better chance that you DON'T win it...
I don't know, giving up too much this year, in this draft, would be a grave error IMO. BUT we have a long way to go to see what's what I suppose. Should be fun!

 

[bhamill]

Well you better prepare yourself then because picks 25+ are traded way more often than their kept. The chance that the keep both of the picks is very low.

Genuinely curious: do you know how often picks 25+ are traded to move UP in the draft? If NYR are going to trade a pick I'd rather it be to move UP in this draft, even if it's BOTH 1sts depending who is available...
Imagine if Michkov falls out of the top 3 or 5 or 8 due to his contract and the Russia situation... bottom feeding teams could very well balk at having to wait for him till his fourth year past the draft...
Yes, fat chance, but...

 

[Thirty One]

Couple of things. Kane isn’t “the same” Kane’s not the same player he was when Panarin was on the hawks, not saying he’s bad, but now I’m not sure kane makes our pp1, and that’s where a large volume of his points come from.

He was 13th in the league in even-strength points last year.