Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXII: Stepping up in a Perfect Storm?

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I wonder why that is.

Does the NHL have more barriers to trades in player contracts? Or is this purely a cultural discrepancy?

The NBA salary cap is higher and soft, so if a team can pay, they can go over. On top of that, player contracts are structured in such a way that really promotes movement so that no team, or player, is stuck somewhere. A team will never acquire a player with more than 3 years remaining and a lot of the time there are player and/or team options. That means the player or the team can walk away from the contract. The league really just seems to have structured itself to promote trades and player movement.

The critique could be that if the NHL is the wrong approach that makes movement difficult and the season "boring", the NBA is the furthest point possible the other way, perhaps being too liberal with movement and player contracts that result in it being hard to keep a team together long term. Of course, there are exceptions, e.g. the Warriors have kept their core for a number of years.

And that mercenary super-teams dominate the league. One of the reasons why I have started getting back into it is cause the Knicks are like the little engine that could. They play tough and they play hard. Fun team. opposite of the Rangers. (For like the first time in 20 years.)
 
I wonder why that is.

Does the NHL have more barriers to trades in player contracts? Or is this purely a cultural discrepancy?

I think there are a couple things.
  • It's a lot easier to predict your window when kids tend to develop faster in the NBA. A lot harder to know when to move on from a player in the NHL when development curves tend to be all over the place.
  • It's also a lot easier to identify what your team needs, and what you are willing to give up, when you have a 10 man rotation. Much more difficult when you have to fill 20 spots with overlapping roles.
  • And I think parity plays a big role. If you don't have your duo or trio of superstars in the NBA you know you aren't a contender and can plan accordingly.
Ultimately, it all tends to lead to more distinct windows in the NBA for contending teams which leads to teams being more aggressive.
 
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I think there are a couple things.
  • It's a lot easier to predict your window when kids tend to develop faster in the NBA. A lot harder to know when to move on from a player in the NHL when development curves tend to be all over the place.
  • It's also a lot easier to identify what your team needs, and what you are willing to give up, when you have a 10 man rotation. Much more difficult when you have to fill 20 spots with overlapping roles.
  • And I think parity plays a big role. If you don't have your duo or trio of superstars in the NBA you know you aren't a contender and can plan accordingly.
Ultimately, it all tends to lead to more distinct windows in the NBA for contending teams which leads to teams being more aggressive.

This is probably more accurate as to how teams operate on a day-to-day basis.
 
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I think its soon time to move on from Buch and possible Mika.

We need some fiery leadership and preferably, players that can finish ( not really for mika but buch ) .

Only way I trade for Eichel is if Mika is involved tbh.
 
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I think its soon time to move on from Buch and possible Mika.

We need some fiery leadership and preferably, players that can finish ( not really for mika but buch ) .

Only way I trade for Eichel is if Mika is involved tbh.
Mika isn’t gonna be part of that deal unless he comes with an extension and he’d have to have a rod going through his brain to sign there.
 
Mika isn’t gonna be part of that deal unless he comes with an extension and he’d have to have a rod going through his brain to sign there.
same org gave Skinner $9M @ 8 years ( still cant get over that), so maybe they'd have the same hopium they could sign him.

Or the realistic option would be sign-and-trade. Mika might take a lower deal now for 'security'
 
same org gave Skinner $9M @ 8 years, so maybe they'd have the same hopium they could sign him.

Or the realistic option would be sign-and-trade. Mika might take a lower deal now for 'security'
No I’m saying I don’t think Zib would sign there because it’s Buffalo no amount of money.
 
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I f***ing love Ryan Lindgren.

Georgiev got beat clean. Maybe he’s shaken.

Edit: meant for GDT

I love Lindgren too..He's been great.

That goal however, is on Miller.
He got walked.
He didn't account for Coyle's speed and got caught flat footed.
It's OK though and too be expected..He's a kid
 
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I hope they trade Howden. Need to take Quinns toy away for him to stop using him

If the team were losing by a goal and Howden was the guy who was killing offense or giving up offense, you can argue he's the issue. But right now, he's about as effective as any of other centers in regards to overall game. Which is way more of an indictment on the rest of the team.
We all just need to close our eyes and dream of the day late in the season when:

Kakko, Chytil, Laf, Panarin, Fox, Lundkvist and maybe Kravtsov are all in the same lineup.

(and yes, I purposely left off zibby, buch, strome and krieds).
 
We apply extremely high standards for the players. A lot of things are "non-negotiable". JD and co will sit there and brag about doing the right things.

But is management and the coaching staff always doing the right thing? Why are they never called out for anything? Zero accountability. I have a few big objections.

1. Look we have a two top 2 picks, a young team. All games are intra-division, and we face teams that are among the dirtiest in the league 60% of the time.

We have an opening at RW on the 4th line. We chose Gauthier who never makes a hit. We are probably the softest team in the league and we get humiliated physically every other night. Is that a good way to develop kids? Is it a good message to send to like a Lindgren, play like you should and you will get run for 60 minutes and nobody will stand up for you? Laf was chippy to start the year but has cooled down. No wonder.

Why wasn't someone a little bit more physical chosen for that position?

2. Look, conditions are super tough this year. We are inexperienced. But we did have -- one -- thing that we could count on. A power-play built around Ziba and Panarin. Surly, that would at least give us some stability coming out of the gates. Right?

Nope, we turn it up side down to go after a more of a "shot first" approach with Strome on the right side. Now it is starting to pick up speed a little at least. But it resulted in us having:
-A bottom 3 PP for the entire start of the season.
-Ziba's confidence going down the toilette.
-Zero room on the top unit for left shots, which both Kakko and Laf happens to be, so we more or less made it impossible for them to have decent starts.

The Kreider-Zib-Buch-Pan-Fox PP unit wouldn't have been bottom 3, zero reason to expect that. It was top 7 last season. I would have liked to see Kakko in Buch's spot, he played well there last season. But the big issue is turning the blue-print upside down.

It was a big mistake to start messing with the PP when we had no pre-season games and given that it should have been the one thing we could have counted on to start the year.

3. There is no plan whatsoever to get the kids a good start and to give them a chance to build up confidence. Kakko scores 2 goals in his first 4 games.

In game 5 -- Kakko gets 24 seconds of PP time (Howden gets almost 2 minutes). And it continues like that. He had a little more in G6, then 15 seconds in G7. Its important for offensive players to score and get confidence. Heck, just look at Ziba. AO have some ugly stretches when confidence have gone low. That is why coaches so often nurture the confidence of their scorers. Young kids that is coming in.

Both Kakko and Laf are wingers that need centers that can get them the puck. We don't have that type of center on the roster. Its not Ziba, Strome, Chytil or Howden. Blackwell is actually OK at it. It shows when Blackwell is playing with Laf, the later instantly gets more involved. Its not like Gorton don't have any ammo to make moves. You can't cheat in the NHL. If you leave a flank exposed it will cost you. Look at Laf, there is zero plan for how to use him to let him play to his strengths. Every other night he gets a different role with new linemates. He is 18, he is good in some areas and underdeveloped in others. Its not rocket science to deem what type of support he needs.

We have not made necessary adjustments to support the 1st FOA pick this franchise ever had nor our 2nd overall pick last season, nor do we have any plans on how to get them enough support offensively.

4
. No matter how you slice it, the TDA situation is ugly. Either (a) he is Satan II and you don't resign him and instead walk away from him or (b) you make it work. At least until he can be moved, you can replace him on the roster etc. Every single player says that he isn't a distraction and that he is a great teammate. Staal, Trouba, Ziba, Strome. Obviously he couldn't get along with the coach. I don't have the facts, it is perfectly possible that he wasn't worth it. Best would have been if we had a coach that could get through to him, but honestly, sometimes its just not worth it to carry a distraction.

BUT:

Option (c), to resign him and then throw him off the team for being himself, that was the worst option.

This is just a few -- unacceptable -- items going into this year. There are many many others.

-> We all know how management feels about this. It takes time. They admit that its not pretty, but likes to point out that they are seeing embryos of us "going in the right direction". We are playing more N-S. The defense has improved.

I am sorry, but that is just wishful thinking. We are a much worse team this year than last year. We are going in the wrong direction. When we are such an extreme mess that we are right now -- it will cost you a lot. Just look around the league, when a team is such a mess that we are right now -- that in itself will reap victims. We are not going to be exempt from that. Lost confidences (look at Ziba!). Bad habits are developed. Loser mentality as a team. That is when these things takes 15 years instead of 3-4.

We are walking a tremendously fine line here. From my POV, the level of managing and coaching of this team has been unacceptable. We can't afford to get major things wrong time after time after time after time. Like it should have been a no-brainer to not mess with the PP when we didn't have a pre-season and it should have been the one thing we could have counted on. We had 2 years to do our due diligence on Tony DeAngelo. We got it wrong, and -- that -- has surely been a major major distraction for the team. To have a kid like Kakko start strong and score two goals and then just let him rot on the bench with zero opportunity to build on that for a number of games, what the f*** is that??? I've never seen anything like it. Everyone could have figured out how our games against NYI, Boston and Washington would look this year. Why the f*** are we icing potentially the softest team in the entire NHL this year? How long will Lindgren and Fox survive before they start to feel the effects on people taking liberties on them on a nightly basis?

This is on Gorton, he is responsible. This is unacceptable.
 
If the team were losing by a goal and Howden was the guy who was killing offense or giving up offense, you can argue he's the issue. But right now, he's about as effective as any of other centers in regards to overall game. Which is way more of an indictment on the rest of the team.
We all just need to close our eyes and dream of the day late in the season when:

Kakko, Chytil, Laf, Panarin, Fox, Lundkvist and maybe Kravtsov are all in the same lineup.

(and yes, I purposely left off zibby, buch, strome and krieds).

Howden isn't the issue. He is the one guy DQ really is helping, I think he has been OK lately and he is getting better. DQ certainly deserves credit for that. He gets a role where he totally can focus on playing to his strengths and gets to do it night after night after night no matter what the results are.

I just wish it was Kakko or Laf getting that support or a role custom made for them.
 
A Howden for Bennett deal, if on the table, would be my preference at this point. Not because I think Howden doesn’t become a nice 3rd or 4th line player somewhere, but because I think Bennett would check a few more boxes over the next 4-5 years.
 
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Fox is playing insane. Who is supposed to move the puck on the other pairings?

DQ has focused a ton on cutting down on mistakes by the defenders. One result: K'Andre Miller has stopped moving the puck. I had no problems with how Miller moved the puck. Good coaching?
 
Howden isn't the issue. He is the one guy DQ really is helping, I think he has been OK lately and he is getting better. DQ certainly deserves credit for that. He gets a role where he totally can focus on playing to his strengths and gets to do it night after night after night no matter what the results are.

I just wish it was Kakko or Laf getting that support or a role custom made for them.

Nah Gorton needs to take Howden out of the equation now that Chytil is coming back

Rooney is better. let that sink in
 
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