Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXI - We are in The End Game now.

[Tawnos]

Players improve when they’re put in a position to succeed. You should know that mr. leader of the year.

Staal is a major roadblock in the way of that. It’s not just his partner (and We’ve already seen that play out with Pionk, who he did no favors) but everyone on the ice.

It’s really hard to improve when you’re hemmed in your own end for 60% of the game. That’s pretty logical.

Players and people improve most by being put in the right environment for them to learn. Sometimes it'll be because they're successful and other times, it's because they failed. On the ice, the most important thing is experience, but it isn't required for that experience to be one where the other players are good. The environment is more important than anything. Staal does nothing to hurt that and, it seems, does a lot to make that environment better. People absolutely perform their best when put in a position to succeed, but for rookies and other green players, performance is a secondary consideration to learning and gaining experience. There is certainly a balance that needs to be struck in regards to a player's confidence, though.

On the experience thing, what if I told you that being hemmed in their own end isn't the worst thing in the world for a young defenseman? The more experience D get in their own zone, good OR bad, the more they'll develop positively if they have the talent and the right mindset (if they don't have the talent and the right mindset, they won't develop in any situation, regardless). The more they're hemmed in, the more opportunity they're going to have to learn from the mistakes in the D they're going to inevitably make. It's not the black & white bad thing you're making it out to be.

 

[Waivers]

Skjei / Trouba
Staal / Shattenkirk
Hajek / DeAngelo
Rykov / Fox

Fox won’t play more than 29 games this year. Rykov has an out clause. Shattenkirk is actually a halfway decent player if he’s healthy and has a better team around him. Staal isn’t getting bought out. This organization will value his “veteran presence”, even though he’s probably the least skilled NHL player in terms of raw talent. Brendan Smith is a close 2nd.

 

[Tawnos]

Yeah I don't reallllly know how good they'll be next year, a huge part could rest on how good rookies like Kravtsov and Kakko are, and whether Quinn can get the D in better shape than it was last season.
I think playoffs are unlikely but I could see the Rangers putting together some good runs before hitting some tough spots because of youth and inexperience, but hopefully set them up well for coming years.
And of course, how players like Chytil and Andersson progress in their roles with the Rangers. If Chytil could become even a mid 40 point 2nd line center this year with obvious upward trend that we can hope continue next year, that's good. If Andersson can come in and hold down a spot and show some of the fire, leadership, and ability that he has shown at other levels, that's a win. If DeAngelo can continue his play from last year, if Hajek or Rykov or someone can have a solid season and force Staal down or out of the lineup, if someone like Fox can come in and provide another boost...things could be on the right track
If I had to guess I'd say something like the 10-15 range next year (bottom 10-15 that is) but with promising signs and a team that might be ready to come together in 2020 and make a strong playoff push.

Yes, exactly. I just want to add that it's not like the Rangers goal is to be bad either. It's just not a consideration one way or the other.

 

[Raspewtin]

Staal might not help the team on the ice, but he doesn't hurt development. If young players required playing with good players constantly to develop, no one would ever develop on a rebuilding team. Your stance that poor play of one player on the ice hurts another players development isn't borne out by logic OR evidence.

This is a transition year. They finish where they finish. In other words, affecting the team's place in the standings for 19-20 isn't the driving force behind any of the decisions that they make, including who to acquire via trade or free agency, who to buy out, who to trade to become cap compliant.

staal getting icetime over a kid hurts their development

 

[Tawnos]

staal getting icetime over a kid hurts their development

How?

 

[Raspewtin]

How?

because a sub-nhl player is taking minutes they should be getting.

 

[Tawnos]

because a sub-nhl player is taking minutes they should be getting.

That doesn't really answer my question.

 

[BringBackLibertys]

because a sub-nhl player is taking minutes they should be getting.

From which NHL ready player??? Due tell. Rykov is not ready to jump right in, he has never played on NA ice... Hajek has what, 5 games?? Come on....

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Players and people improve most by being put in the right environment for them to learn. Sometimes it'll be because they're successful and other times, it's because they failed. On the ice, the most important thing is experience, but it isn't required for that experience to be one where the other players are good. The environment is more important than anything. Staal does nothing to hurt that and, it seems, does a lot to make that environment better. People absolutely perform their best when put in a position to succeed, but for rookies and other green players, performance is a secondary consideration to learning and gaining experience. There is certainly a balance that needs to be struck in regards to a player's confidence, though.

On the experience thing, what if I told you that being hemmed in their own end isn't the worst thing in the world for a young defenseman? The more experience D get in their own zone, good OR bad, the more they'll develop positively if they have the talent and the right mindset (if they don't have the talent and the right mindset, they won't develop in any situation, regardless). The more they're hemmed in, the more opportunity they're going to have to learn from the mistakes in the D they're going to inevitably make. It's not the black & white bad thing you're making it out to be.

Lol... just... lol.

What about the young forwards who are also going to be hemmed in? It’s not just his partner, irs everyone. These are lessons and things that can be learned along the way with out getting your ass handed to you on a nightly basis with staal out there.

Staals experience carries some value, but that isn’t really quantifiable. What I know is he hurts this team big time on the ice, that should take precedence over everything.

I mean what’s next? Staal is good to have around because him sucking with teach players how to deal with adversity?

Come on.

 

[BringBackLibertys]

Lol... just... lol.

What about the young forwards who are also going to be hemmed in? It’s not just his partner, irs everyone. These are lessons and things that can be learned along the way with out getting your ass handed to you on a nightly basis with staal out there.

Staals experience carries some value, but that isn’t really quantifiable. What I know is he hurts this team big time on the ice, that should take precedence over everything.

I mean what’s next? Staal is good to have around because him sucking with teach players how to deal with adversity?

Come on.

Based on your logic the minute a kid screws up they should be sent down, since "he hurts this team big time on the ice, that should take precedence over everything." So basically we wont have a team to ice, because players that are young are going to screw up and hit walls, but God forbid we allow anything on the ice to hurt the team....

 

[Tawnos]

Lol... just... lol.

What about the young forwards who are also going to be hemmed in? It’s not just his partner, irs everyone. These are lessons and things that can be learned along the way with out getting your ass handed to you on a nightly basis with staal out there.

Staals experience carries some value, but that isn’t really quantifiable. What I know is he hurts this team big time on the ice, that should take precedence over everything.

I mean what’s next? Staal is good to have around because him sucking with teach players how to deal with adversity?

Come on.

Ah yes, the old argument that unquantifiables are less important than quantifiables. That whole line of thinking just doesn't reflect the real world, where the objective and the subjective are equals.

Either way, forwards need to learn to play in the defensive zone too. I also didn't say it was a "good" thing. I just said it isn't the worst thing. But no, a player sucking doesn't teach other players to deal with adversity. On the other hand, a player who can still come to the rink every day, be a pro, work hard, provide the same things every game, and have the trust of the coach despite having a physical handicap can certainly teach players at least something about dealing with adversity.

 

[Cag29]

That’s one way to look at it... but it’s a fairly regretful way of doing so.

Kreider is our asset and completely unrelated to Panarin in any way at all. It would be like finding 20$ on the street, picking it up and then burning the 10$ U had in your pocket. U could look at that situation like “I made 10$ Today!” if u wanted to, but most folks would feel they now have 30$ In their pocket

I agree with you. But they may not get what they are looking for on Kreider until the deadline. If we are out of the playoff picture you trade him. But what if we are in the playoffs at the deadline do you mess with the roster?

 

[Tawnos]

By the way, the most important thing in this conversation about Staal is that he's still highly unlikely to be the one bought out.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Didn’t see if this was asked already or not, but does the buyout window open at 5pm today, since it closes at 5pm on Wednesday?

 

[Avery16]

Knoblauch coached Darren Raddysh six years with Erie

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

No one appears to be on waivers today...

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Based on your logic the minute a kid screws up they should be sent down, since "he hurts this team big time on the ice, that should take precedence over everything." So basically we wont have a team to ice, because players that are young are going to screw up and hit walls, but God forbid we allow anything on the ice to hurt the team....

No because one screw up from a young kid is not the same as constant screw ups from a veteran who can't play in this league anymore.

Its a learning experience for one, it's more of the same for the other.

I'm not trying to crap on leadership or stuff and things either. It's an element that everyone needs, look at Tampa.

What I won't get behind is keeping someone around for leadership when they can't do everything else that is required by the job. That doesn't help anyone.

Again this isn't an average player we're talking about. It's one of the worst regulars in the league.

 

[True Blue]

Whatever our opinions on who should or shouldn't be bought out, Staal isn't getting bought out. Get used to it now.

Agreed. The non-goalie elder statesman. He has value in the locker room and Quinn believes he brings something for the kids. Forget about personal views, he is going nowhere.

 

[True Blue]

Y’all realize rangerland has created this reality where the rangers have to or will trade Kreider for a lame return bc of the cap.

Or he stays and someone else goes.

 

[Thirty One]

No one appears to be on waivers today...

Shattenkirk wouldn't need to, because he has a NMC. He has to be given that option, but he could (and likely would) decline waivers and go straight to the buy-out.

 

[True Blue]

Should just trade kreider and Strome and call it a day.. poolparty and a conditional 1st for kreider and Strome to whomever

A) Why do they need to trade Strome?

B) Can someone, anyone please explain to me what the fascination with Puljarvi is?

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Shattenkirk wouldn't need to, because he has a NMC. He has to be given that option, but he could (and likely would) decline waivers and go straight to the buy-out.

Right, but Smith or Names would, right?

 

[Thirty One]

Right, but Smith or Names would, right?

Yep.

 

[LORDE]

I agree with you. But they may not get what they are looking for on Kreider until the deadline. If we are out of the playoff picture you trade him. But what if we are in the playoffs at the deadline do you mess with the roster?

Yes. I trade him. This team isn't designed to win this season. Glaring holes at 1 or 2C and 1D.

If they have to keep him until the deadline then do so, but injury and distraction may make that a bad plan also... But I would NEVER self rent a player unless I feel that this team is top1-3 in the NHL and has a legit chance at the Cup

 

[NYR Viper]

Shattenkirk wouldn't need to, because he has a NMC. He has to be given that option, but he could (and likely would) decline waivers and go straight to the buy-out.

Same for Staal?