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Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXI - We are in The End Game now.

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Why can’t we use kreider to unload a contract without the buyout? Can Colorado afford to fit Kreider and Smith at full cap?

Kreider + Smith for futures.
 
The buyout period opened yesterday but the Rangers still need to place the waivers at noon and the player would have to clear waivers in 24 hours. Shattenkirk has a NMC and the Rangers can give him notice that a buyout is coming and he can accept or reject the waivers option.

(c) A no-move clause may prevent the involuntary relocation of a Player, whether by Trade, Loan or Waiver claim. A no-move clause, however, may not restrict the Club's Buy-Out and termination rights as set forth in this Agreement. Prior to exercising its Ordinary Course Buy-Out rights pursuant to Paragraph 13 of the SPC hereof, the Club shall, in writing in accordance with the notice provisions in Exhibit 3 hereof, provide the Player with the option of electing to be placed on Waivers. The Player will have twenty-four (24) hours from the time he receives such notice to accept or reject that option at his sole discretion, and shall so inform the Club in writing, in accordance with the notice provisions in Exhibit 3 hereof, within such twenty- four (24) hour period. If the Player does not timely accept or reject that option, it will be deemed rejected.
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Troy Brouwer was bought out by Calgary last August and he cleared waivers.
 
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BringBackLibertys said:
So, your wager....I am guessing Shipachyov would be on our first line, gobs of pro experience, obviously miles ahead of our current players..... You have to bring them over and see, you can't just assume they will adjust, that is all I am saying. Do not pencil these guys in, let them figure it out in the A and then bring them up when they show they are ready for NA style hockey.

For the record, it's not just Euro guys that I feel like this about, I want Fox in the A as well. The only exceptions are high 1st round picks that knock your socks off all preseason long, and even they can be sent down before they get to the game limit...
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UDFA who didn’t get a fair shake didn’t pan out, somehow relevant to a 22 year old D.

These guys do adjust to the rink. Whether or not they’re good enough to stick in the NHL is another story all together but we know that Staal is not an NHL level player anymore. I’d rather see what a Kid (be that Rykov, Lindgren or whoever) get a shot at sheltered minutes.
 
So we have an hour and a half to go to know if Rangers will be buying someone out, correct? Due to placing them on waivers.
 
Dijock94 said:
That’s the point. The point is to use Kreiders value to avoid a buyout.
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This is like trading your car in to the dealership when buying a new one. If you sold the car own its own via a private sale, you can usually get more value than the dealer is willing to give you.

Giving up value seems like a lazy idea to me.
 
Gardner McKay said:
This is like trading your car in to the dealership when buying a new one. If you sold the car own its own via a private sale, you can usually get more value than the dealer is willing to give you.

Giving up value seems like a lazy idea to me.
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It’s not lazy if you can’t unload these contracts any other way. Theoretically we move kreider and Smith, let Shatty rebuild his trade value enough that you can trade him after his bonus next year and we avoid major negative cap implications.
 
GAGLine said:
Namestnikov qualifies. The minimum cap hit changes each year based on the average SPC:

Buyout FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

So, we can buy out Namestnikov, but he would get 2/3rds because he is 26.

A 2nd round pick isn't enough for me to throw in a Howden or Hajek. We need those players more than we need another pick.
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Thank you for the info. Appreciate it. On the last point, I guess you’re right. In any other case I would agree with you, but we have a surplus of puck-moving RHD that can play on the power play. And if we don’t do anything with Shattenkirk/Staal/Smith, then we can lose an ADA/Buch due to the cap. And that is worse to me than losing a Howden/Hajek even though I like both players.
 
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ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
UDFA who didn’t get a fair shake didn’t pan out, somehow relevant to a 22 year old D.

These guys do adjust to the rink. Whether or not they’re good enough to stick in the NHL is another story all together but we know that Staal is not an NHL level player anymore. I’d rather see what a Kid (be that Rykov, Lindgren or whoever) get a shot at sheltered minutes.
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We are never going to agree because you think paying Smith and Skjei a ton of minutes each is the way to go here. If you do anything other then that you are exposing your rookies (the level of minutes would not be sheltered). I think Smith should be in the AHL or bought out, and Skjei should get second pair time.
 
NYR Viper said:
Again though what is cap space worth?

The issue we are going to see is in years 3 + 4.


2019-2020
Giradi = $3.611m
Beleskey (buried) = $.825m
Staal = $2.9m
Smith = $.970833m
OR Shattenkirk @ $1.483m
Spooner = $.3m
Total Dead Cap Space = ~$8.6m

2020-2021
Girardi = $1.11m
Staal = $3.7m
Smith = $3.145m
OR Shattenkirk @ $6.083m
Spooner = $.3m
Total Dead Cap Space= ~$8.255m
Key players to sign = Lemieux (maybe), ADA (maybe), Georgiev, Strome
Players off the cap = Kreider, Namestnikov, Fast

2021-2022
Girardi = $1.11m
Staal = $1.2m
Smith = $1.1456m
OR Shattenkirk @ $1.433m
Total Dead Cap Space = $3.456m
Key Players to re-sign = Hajek, Chytil, Andersson, Howden, Buchnevich
Players off the cap = Shattenkirk, Hank

2022-2023
Girardi = $1.11m
Staal = $1.2m
Smith = $1.1456m
OR Shattenkirk @ $1.433m
Total Dead Cap Space = $3.456m
Key players to re-sign = Kravtsov, Kakko, Zibanejad, Fox, Lemieux (maybe), ADA (maybe)


So you're saving:

2019-2020:
$2.388M

2020-2021
$.76m

2021-2022
$.912m

2022-2023
$.912m

And you are getting rid of a better player who will most likely have value as soon as next off-season.

So let's say the Rangers pay his bonus next July 1st and then can trade him for a 2nd + 3rd '2021. The additional dead cap of $.912m in 2021-2022 and 2022-2023 is worth less than the additional 2nd + 3rd they recoup from Shattenkirk. Those picks are worth more than that dead cap space. Therefore, buying our Shattenkirk in lieu of Staal and Smith is a poor decision.

You're also clearing an extra contract (Smith + Staal vs Shattenkirk) and opening up LD where the organizational depth is much more plentiful than RD (outside of Fox there isn't anyone else close to ready right now)
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Thats a big gamble to bank on Shattenkirk being an improved, productive, and healthy player.
 
Calad said:
Thats a big gamble to bank on Shattenkirk being an improved, productive, and healthy player.
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He just needs to continue his play from the end of last year. It's not really that large of an assumption for a guy who was top-15 in offensive defensemen for many years to bring his level up a bit and get to 40 points again.

That and I'd argue that hoping Smith and Staal raise their level is a MUCH worse gamble to make.

If the thought process is Smith + Staal bought out or Shattenkirk, that' easy. Keep Shattenkirk. At least he has SOME upside.
 
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BringBackLibertys said:
We are never going to agree because you think paying Smith and Skjei a ton of minutes each is the way to go here. If you do anything other then that you are exposing your rookies (the level of minutes would not be sheltered). I think Smith should be in the AHL or bought out, and Skjei should get second pair time.
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So who is your top LHD?
 
ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
So who is your top LHD?
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Skjei and Staal both sit right at about 20 minutes, and I know it's not ideal, but we don't need to win, and it allows the kids to get up to speed in the AHL. If one of them shows to be ready (Rykov comes to mind), then we bring him up and start platooning him in while rotating others out, kind of like last year with the 8 D thing.
 
There is little hope of Shattenkirk rebuilding his value. This signing has been a disaster since day 1; thank god it was only a 4 year deal.

People would rather see him in the lineup struggling and being crap defensively than seeing Fox and DeAngelo develop? Wow.

And the cap hit due to the buyout is not bad at all: clears it so much this year, next year it's like he would be on the roster, and the last two years are negligible.

He has literally no value around the league; just buy him out and be done with it.
 
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McSauer said:
There is little hope of Shattenkirk rebuilding his value. This signing has been a disaster since day 1; thank god it was only a 4 year deal.

People would rather see him in the lineup struggling and being crap defensively than seeing Fox and DeAngelo develop? Wow.

And the cap hit due to the buyout is not bad at all: clears it so much this year, next year it's like he would be on the roster, and the last two years are negligible.

He has literally no value around the league; just buy him out and be done with it.
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Why is this true?

Go back and research his stats from the beginning of his first season. The guy was on fire. Then he hurt his knee which lingered for a while, he had the procedure, couldn't train well last off-season and cam to camp behind the eight-ball. He got better as the season progressed which is to be expected when coming back from a major injury.

I am so confused as to why there is a narrative on here that says 'Shattenkirk has been a disaster from Day 1'.

And I am not singling you out McSauer, I see it everywhere.

He had 18 points in his first 25 games with the Rangers
 
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McSauer said:
There is little hope of Shattenkirk rebuilding his value. This signing has been a disaster since day 1; thank god it was only a 4 year deal.

People would rather see him in the lineup struggling and being crap defensively than seeing Fox and DeAngelo develop? Wow.

And the cap hit due to the buyout is not bad at all: clears it so much this year, next year it's like he would be on the roster, and the last two years are negligible.

He has literally no value around the league; just buy him out and be done with it.
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So much this. The Caps couldn't get rid of this guy fast enough after his atrocious playoff performance.
 
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