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Speculation: Roster Building Thread LIII: Free Agent Frenzy

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Crease said:
I'm not an accountant but I would expect that a signing bonus is considered income earned in the state the employer is located.
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All I know about the accounting side of hockey, is what I read in the articles. And you can learn the ins and outs of it.

Panarin most certainly can have signing bonuses addressed to Florida and benefit from the no state tax. If his Florida condo is listed as his primary residence, the signing bonuses get sent there and the taxes on it are subject to Florida law
 
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Edge said:
It takes an entire village to pretend to run an NHL team.

Armchair GMs
Armchair scouts
Armchair PR and marketing departments
Armchair legal experts
Armchair accountants and book keepers
Armchair PBP and color commentators
Armchair schedulers
Armchair psychiatrists
Armchair life coaches
Armchair agents
Armchair players

Together, we can faux-run this organization through hypothetical challenges and lead it to theoretical glory!
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You left out my personal favorite, the armchair trainers.

Every time a player heads to the locker room mid-game - “oh god, another concussion, his career is over!!!!”

Nevermind, it was a broken skate lace.
 
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NernieBichols said:
All I know about the accounting side of hockey, is what I read in the articles. And you can learn the ins and outs of it.

Panarin most certainly can have signing bonuses addressed to Florida and benefit from the no state tax. If his Florida condo is listed as his primary residence, the signing bonuses get sent there and the taxes on it are subject to Florida law
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Speaking from personal experience, you pay taxes based on both where you live and where you earn your income - it’s not one or the other.

If you work in NY but live in Florida instead of New Jersey, great, you’re only subject to taxes in 1 state instead of 2. But the NY tax is unavoidable.
 
Blue Blooded said:
If Strome plays well he'll be too expensive, if he doesn't there is no reason to keep him.
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If Panarin comes he will be too expensive with a contract that will have NTC/NMC at a time when his skills will be in decline and the Rangers are looking to contend for the Cup. There is no reason to sign him.
You don't have to egregiously squeeze them, but you can negotiate for the 1 year which all parties can agree will come in a at a lower rate with the understanding that they look to sign longer extensions the next summer when there is cap room.
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1) You want to hard ball them into a low ball offer, but yet state that they do not have to be egregiously squeezed?
2) Not one agent will believe that that there is any such understanding as only cash is cash.
 
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Edge said:
It takes an entire village to pretend to run an NHL team.

Armchair GMs
Armchair scouts
Armchair PR and marketing departments
Armchair legal experts
Armchair accountants and book keepers
Armchair PBP and color commentators
Armchair schedulers
Armchair psychiatrists
Armchair life coaches
Armchair agents
Armchair players

Together, we can faux-run this organization through hypothetical challenges and lead it to theoretical glory!
Click to expand...
#Jack of all trades
#swiss army knife
#five-tool player
#stayedattheholidayinnexpress
 
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NernieBichols said:
Signing bonus
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I understand that. But any person that I know of who has received a cash bonus in NYC, despite the fact that they live elsewhere in the tri-state has had to pay NYC taxes on the bonus.

What makes a cash bonus different than salary earned?
 
TheBPA said:
Speaking from personal experience, you pay taxes based on both where you live and where you earn your income - it’s not one or the other.

If you work in NY but live in Florida instead of New Jersey, great, you’re only subject to taxes in 1 state instead of 2. But the NY tax is unavoidable.
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Signing bonuses differ from salary. Salary is getting paid for the work you do. Signing bonus is a bonus for signing, right.
 
True Blue said:
Which is why I do not believe that they will receive the treatment that the poster suggested.

DeAngelo has had a lot of stock put into him. Gorton wanted him. Quinn put in a lot of time. He responded. I believe that they would be looking to bring them back.

Buch? No idea. I do believe that Gorton would not trade both him and Kreider. At least one will stay. Honestly, if they keep him, you may be looking at a Skej-like deal. A lot depends on what happens with Kreider.
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a bridge deal for ADA is risking but definitely possible. I could see them wanting to prove that his maturity issues are in the past and if he doesn't than nils is on the way to take his spot. but i think they'd love to sign him long term at a good rate.

I think a bridge deal for buch is much less likely...I think they will either commit to him long term or he's gonna get traded.
 
True Blue said:
I understand that. But any person that I know of who has received a cash bonus in NYC, despite the fact that they live elsewhere in the tri-state has had to pay NYC taxes on the bonus.

What makes a cash bonus different than salary earned?
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Cuz they are getting a cash bonus for the work they did in NY.

This is a signing bonus. I think that’s the wrinkle and loophole.

A lot of hockey writers have reported on this stuff. Me or anyone saying they believe this to be the case, aren’t just pulling it from their zzzzes. It’s cuz we’ve read it in articles about this exact situation.
 
Leetch3 said:
I think a bridge deal for buch is much less likely...I think they will either commit to him long term or he's gonna get traded.
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You could be right on both. Again, too much uncertainty regarding Buch and Kreider. I cannot see Kreider entering the season without a new contract, so I doubt the season starts with both of them. Gorton & JD need to decide what they want to do with Kreider first and foremost. That is the first real off season domino.
 
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Edge said:
It takes an entire village to pretend to run an NHL team.

Armchair GMs
Armchair scouts
Armchair PR and marketing departments
Armchair legal experts
Armchair accountants and book keepers
Armchair PBP and color commentators
Armchair schedulers
Armchair psychiatrists
Armchair life coaches
Armchair agents
Armchair players

Together, we can faux-run this organization through hypothetical challenges and lead it to theoretical glory!
Click to expand...

Hello, i'm here to interview for the "Armchair Village Idiot" position.
 
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NernieBichols said:
Cuz they are getting a cash bonus for the work they did in NY.

This is a signing bonus. I think that’s the wrinkle and loophole.

A lot of hockey writers have reported on this stuff. Me or anyone saying they believe this to be the case, aren’t just pulling it from their zzzzes. It’s cuz we’ve read it in articles about this exact situation.
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Ok. If that is the case, then you found the loophole.

I know one or two things about tax. I also know a lot of people who work in NY and live either in CT or NJ. Every single one of them who receives a cash bonus pays has to pay NYC taxes. The tax code defines taxable income as income from any and all sources possible. To my knowledge, there is no differentiation between cash earned as salary and cash earned as a part of a bonus, much less a differentiation between what is a regular bonus and a signing bonus.

But again, tax is a complicated thing. Could be that all of the hockey writers have discovered a loophole. That said, it would be amazing to me if such a thing was not more exploited by anyone who works in NY. I am not aware of a differentiation of a regular worker and a professional athlete for tax purposes. But then again, I am not a professional athlete. Nor do I play one on tv.
 
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GAGLine said:
My guess would be NY. If it's Florida, then the whole tax thing means nothing to a team like the Rangers, provided the player has a residence in a no tax state.
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Right, there would be no tax advantage anywhere as every player would just have a residence in Florida/no income tax state.
 
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GAGLine said:
My guess would be NY. If it's Florida, then the whole tax thing means nothing to a team like the Rangers, provided the player has a residence in a no tax state.
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It would save an athlete $1.3M in net earnings by being taxed in Florida, versus NYC with the SALT taxes included for every $10M.

I will say this- Hockey players & their advisers are very astute when it comes to financial management. There is a lot more than just taxes. Investments as well. People think that it's taking advantages of loopholes, but it's not. Like many well to do folks, funds are used to create new businesses and jobs, and contributed to private sector growth.
 
TheBPA said:
I’m sure NY’s taxing authority will let that explanation slide.
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Are you kidding me? NYC? Corporations. Off shore accounts. AND you think the taxing authority is gonna go after panarin.

Look the convo is getting absurd and it doesn’t what I say, and I’ve already said everything I can. I’ll just be going in circles if I keep going
 
Off Sides said:
Right, there would be no tax advantage anywhere as every player would just have a residence in Florida/no income tax state.
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As long as a team is willing to front-load a signing bonus. The "salary" or wage earnings, are different. It's why Auston Mathews base salary for the next 5 years is below his rookie deal at ~$700K.
 
NernieBichols said:
Are you kidding me? NYC? Corporations. Off shore accounts. AND you think the taxing authority is gonna go after panarin.

Look the convo is getting absurd and it doesn’t what I say, and I’ve already said everything I can. I’ll just be going in circles if I keep going
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Well, not paying NY taxes for a signing bonus because you signed your deal elsewhere and/or live elsewhere is just factually inaccurate.

It’s not that complicated. If you are employed in NY you pay NY taxes. If you reside elsewhere you pay that state’s taxes as well. If the state where you reside doesn’t have state income taxes, then hooray! You don’t have to pay taxes in 2 states. But the NY tax remains unavoidable.

Not one tax code in the United States differentiates income between that of salary, signing bonus, annual bonus, performance bonus, Christmas bonus, third Tuesday of the month bonus, or any other bonus. It is income.
 
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TheBPA said:
Well, not paying NY taxes for a signing bonus because you signed your deal elsewhere and/or live elsewhere is just factually inaccurate.

It’s not that complicated. If you are employed in NY you pay NY taxes. If you reside elsewhere you pay that state’s taxes as well. If the state where you reside doesn’t have state income taxes, then hooray! You don’t have to pay taxes in 2 states. But the NY tax remains unavoidable.

Not one tax code in the United States differentiates income between that of salary, signing bonus, annual bonus, performance bonus, Christmas bonus, third Tuesday of the month bonus, or any other bonus. It is income.
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I see what’s your saying. I don’t know anymore than what I read. IM not an accountant
 
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