Speculation: Roster Building Thread LIII: Free Agent Frenzy

[egelband]

So long as there's no guarantee that the player makes back all of the money left on the table and there's no guarantee that management will keep them indefinitely until a certain amount is paid, it's a standard upper management job offer for ex-players with ties to the organization and community. As long as it's a player being hired for a job with substance and getting paid a reasonable amount, it's all kosher.

Yeah. It's a great area and the money isn't huge (for pro sports). I think the basic principle is that Luongo honestly wants to retire and there's not a huge benefit to FL so it's a wash. So to speak. They'll probably put something cleaner in the next cba. But I don't think there's anything offensive here. Also the league did OK the original deal and have since eliminated the super long deals.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

My favorite trend in recent years has to be the armchair tax accountants of the hockey world

 

[Crease]

I don't know what Florida is capable of in terms of signing bonuses, but let's say his first year salary in Florida is 9 mil in signing bonus and 1 mil in base salary. The signing bonus is paid as soon as he signs the contract and is taxed in Florida. It would only be the 1 mil that would be subject to 41 games played outside of Florida.

That said, the Rangers could potentially do the same thing. Panarin maintains a residence in Florida. If the Rangers gave him a signing bonus, would it be taxed in NY or Florida? That I'm not sure of.

I'm not an accountant but I would expect that a signing bonus is considered income earned in the state the employer is located.

 

[RGY]

Boomer is a smart man and a true Rangers fan - wants whatever is best for the team.

Yeah were all not “true” Rangers fans because we are for Panarin

Biggest jerkoff comment you have made yet. What a prick.

Tell us more about how they would have zero interest to the point they wouldnt even meet with him...

 

[TheBPA]

I'm not an accountant but I would expect that a signing bonus is considered income earned in the state the employer is located.

New York Rangers LLC, a Cayman Islands limited liability company

 

[Mikos87]

If Panarin signs with Florida, he does not pay state income tax for the 41 home games.

So you could argue it's, at best 8.82% of half the base salary he would "save" in tax. 8.82% is the state income tax for NY. He would "save" $523,200. He however pays a much higher tax for every game in Canada. Florida plays 10 games in Canada this season. If he signs with the Rangers, it's only 7. Not really going into that much detail but it changes it a bit.

If the Rangers front-load the contract with 16.4m in the first 2 years and a 12m signing bonus, he gets 45m over the first 24 months. I am sure Florida can't match that much up front.


* I did not include the games in Tampa, Dallas, Nashville and Vegas since the Rangers play those as well.

There's a way around this through a signing bonus. Panarin still gets paid as a FLA resident on July 15th let's say, and earns a fraction of that as salary.

Say it's front loaded at year 1 $14M SB, and $1M in salary.

That $14M is given to him as a Florida resident.

I'm sure Theofanos is aware of this.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

There's a way around this through a signing bonus. Panarin still gets paid as a FLA resident on July 15th let's say, and earns a fraction of that as salary.

Say it's front loaded at year 1 $14M SB, and $1M in salary.

That $14M is given to him as a Florida resident.

I'm sure Theofanos is aware of this.

So signing bonuses are taxed based on residency?

 

[Mikos87]

So signing bonuses are taxed based on residency?

They can be. Its why a lot of these players have homes in tax favorable states.

EKane I'm Vegas, Duchene in Nashville. Lots of ways around this.

 

[Leetch3]

So signing bonuses are taxed based on residency?

yes not sure exactly how the rules work for a pro-athlete to claim primary residence but when matthews signed and almost all the $$ is in signing bonuses, it was noted that he will pay arizona taxes not toronto taxes.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

I'm not an accountant but I would expect that a signing bonus is considered income earned in the state the employer is located.

I’m pretty sure you have to live in a state for 6 months of the year and then you can pay at that tax rate. Don’t quote me on that..

 

[True Blue]

Honestly I'd try to offer panarin 11.5 mil for 5 years... there's just no need for a 7 year contract.

And if he doesn't like it oh well move on. Don't shackle yourself with a bloated contract down the road.

Players like Panarin are a once in a lifetime chance. Players like Panarin will continue to be elite well into their 30s. Players like Panarin are absolute game changers. Panrin is the absolute unrestricted free agent. Panarin is going to take less dollars and less than the max amount of years. One of these does not jive with the others.

 

[Leetch3]

Im pretty shocked we havent signed anyone yet. I would think they want the Trouba deal done before heading into UFA.

rangers never sign their RFAs early cause there is no rush...i'm sure they have talked to trouba and know pretty well how much its gonna take

 

[True Blue]

Buch and DeAngelo can be hardballed into 1-year deals at a low AAV.

Yes, but is that really the way to go with players like that?

 

[Blue Blooded]

Yes, but is that really the way to go with players like that?

If we have a 1-year cap crunch it might be. It allows them to get a long-term extension one year earlier than a 2-year bridge as well.

If we don't trade them, Vesey, Names and Strome come off the books after this season and Kreider's salary is gone after we've traded him at the deadline.

 

[SA16]

I’m pretty sure you have to live in a state for 6 months of the year and then you can pay at that tax rate. Don’t quote me on that..

You're supposed to be in the state for 183 days to pay tax there. I don't know how that works with regards to sports and things that would be considered business travel.

 

[True Blue]

That said, the Rangers could potentially do the same thing. Panarin maintains a residence in Florida. If the Rangers gave him a signing bonus, would it be taxed in NY or Florida? That I'm not sure of.

He "works" in NY. The bonus is incurred in NY. He needs to pay NY taxes.

 

[Leetch3]

Yes, but is that really the way to go with players like that?

those 2 might be the toughest decisions...big question is how much faith do you have in them going forward and how much do you plan for them to be part of the long term solution?

a bridge deal saves $$ now but you are then basically betting against them cause if they bust out then they will cost even more in a few years and the long term deal becomes even a bigger steal...but if they don't bust out then those long term deals don't look so hot

 

[NernieBichols]

I don't know what Florida is capable of in terms of signing bonuses, but let's say his first year salary in Florida is 9 mil in signing bonus and 1 mil in base salary. The signing bonus is paid as soon as he signs the contract and is taxed in Florida. It would only be the 1 mil that would be subject to 41 games played outside of Florida.

That said, the Rangers could potentially do the same thing. Panarin maintains a residence in Florida. If the Rangers gave him a signing bonus, would it be taxed in NY or Florida? That I'm not sure of.

whichever address he uses as his primary residence. Short answer: Florida

 

[Off Sides]

yes not sure exactly how the rules work for a pro-athlete to claim primary residence but when matthews signed and almost all the $$ is in signing bonuses, it was noted that he will pay arizona taxes not toronto taxes.

IIRC, that had something to do with his US citizenship and playing in Canada and some treaty between the two?

 

[True Blue]

If we have a 1-year cap crunch it might be. It allows them to get a long-term extension one year earlier than a 2-year bridge as well.

That is how you cause bad feelings between players whom you want to keep and the franchise that is trying to sign them. You do not hard ball such players into taking low ball 1 year deals.

If we don't trade them, Vesey, Names and Strome come off the books after this season and Kreider's salary is gone after we've traded him at the deadline.

1) Kreider is here and he is not traded. Nor do you know if he will be traded
2) How do you know Strome will not continue his strong play and not become a candidate to be resigned?

 

[Raspewtin]

in the medium term (years 3-5 lets say) is Panarin's cap that much of an issue?

$25 million + in cap comes off the books in two years before any of Kravt/Kakko would need new deals

That is how you cause bad feelings between players whom you want to keep and the franchise that is trying to sign them. You do not hard ball such players into taking low ball 1 year deals.

1) Kreider is here and he is not traded. Nor do you know if he will be traded
2) How do you know Strome will not continue his strong play and not become a candidate to be resigned?

Strome had a 16.67% ES Shooting Percentage with the Rangers which would comfortably put him as a top 20 shooter in the league. Do you believe that's what he is?

 

[NernieBichols]

boomer briefly mentioned panarin this morning and much to my surprise he wants nothing to do with giving him 7 years, $77 mil...said learn from the past. would do 5 years. I don't disagree but I would have bet that boomer would be a 'give him whatever he wants' guy

Only difference is panarin is a lot younger and has so much more left in his tank than his buddy Richie Rich did.

 

[Edge]

My favorite trend in recent years has to be the armchair tax accountants of the hockey world

It takes an entire village to pretend to run an NHL team.

Armchair GMs
Armchair scouts
Armchair PR and marketing departments
Armchair legal experts
Armchair accountants and book keepers
Armchair PBP and color commentators
Armchair schedulers
Armchair psychiatrists
Armchair life coaches
Armchair agents
Armchair players

Together, we can faux-run this organization through hypothetical challenges and lead it to theoretical glory!

 

[True Blue]

those 2 might be the toughest decisions...big question is how much faith do you have in them going forward and how much do you plan for them to be part of the long term solution?

Which is why I do not believe that they will receive the treatment that the poster suggested.

DeAngelo has had a lot of stock put into him. Gorton wanted him. Quinn put in a lot of time. He responded. I believe that they would be looking to bring them back.

Buch? No idea. I do believe that Gorton would not trade both him and Kreider. At least one will stay. Honestly, if they keep him, you may be looking at a Skej-like deal. A lot depends on what happens with Kreider.

 

[Blue Blooded]

That is how you cause bad feelings between players whom you want to keep and the franchise that is trying to sign them. You do not hard ball such players into taking low ball 1 year deals.

1) Kreider is here and he is not traded. Nor do you know if he will be traded
2) How do you know Strome will not continue his strong play and not become a candidate to be resigned?

If Strome plays well he'll be too expensive, if he doesn't there is no reason to keep him.

You don't have to egregiously squeeze them, but you can negotiate for the 1 year which all parties can agree will come in a at a lower rate with the understanding that they look to sign longer extensions the next summer when there is cap room.