Speculation: Roster Building Thread LI: Something happen, please...

[Leetch3]

the other thing that we need to keep in mind about trading buch is the uncertainty of his next contract...not knowing his demands it seems to me that we have 2 options with him as a RFA (ignoring a trade for a second). you can either sign him to a bridge deal or you can sign him long term which is probably something like 6 years, $6-6.5 mil...

now buch has the potential IMO to be a 30/30 guy...and if he becomes that the long term deal is a great contract. but what if he doesn't? what if he remains and enigma or isn't in the top 6? in that scenario the contract becomes bad and we are looking for ways to move it...

but then if you bridge him, you are almost betting against him because if he becomes that 30/30 combined with more UFA years it will cost way more to extend him in 2 years...

I think part of the reason they are listening to offers is that they aren't sure what to do with him...they aren't looking to just get rid of him but if you can get real value then that becomes a 3rd option...

of course another potential wild card is the rumor of a flat cap the next few seasons...if the cap doesn't go up to push salaries up each year, does that help minimize the risk of a bridge deal if the cap is virtually the same after those 2 years?

 

[Tawnos]

I think he'd get that "show me" contract.

Exactly. Which is what Girardi essentially got... and proved that he was worth only that and not more.

 

[mas0764]

Please get Zegras

Think Zegras is a pipe dream, to the extent that any of this talk of getting 7 or 8 is even possible.

Think Zegras goes top 6 for sure, possibly as high as 3 or 4. I don't see him sliding past Detroit.

Too much smoke. Chicago likes him, Detroit likes him.

Hughes
Kakko

....

Turcotte
Byram
Zegras
Dach

I think those four names are way more likely to go by 7 than the others. Who is cracking that list?

Cozens has been quiet. Krebs got injured. Caulfield is a winger at the end of the day. Knight? I know some people have been saying some teams have him in the top 5 or 10.

 

[NernieBichols]

I wonder if JD tries to help out and steps in on these discussions. It sounds like Gorton is having trouble sealing the deal.

Nothing to do with that
It’s a combo of the salary cap ceiling holdup

And just the dynamic of it. It’s a draft trade and for each player, he’s got 2 teams, he’s giving time to let them put in their best offers.

Ok gorts wants it done before the picks get made. Doesn’t mean he was in a rush to do it last night.

 

[Tawnos]

Does anyone have the feeling, with the uncertainty of who will get picked where, that any of the trades we're talking about are going to end up happening during the draft? Teams waiting to see if their guy ends up being available for them.

 

[I Eat Crow]

With all due respect to Edge, I'll believe it when I see it.

I'm skeptical that a package around Buchenvich nets a top 10 pick too. I think the Rangers would almost certainly have to take a bad contract back to facilitate it if it does happen (not Lucic, think Manning).

 

[Edge]

Think Zegras is a pipe dream, to the extent that any of this talk of getting 7 or 8 is even possible.

Think Zegras goes top 6 for sure, possibly as high as 3 or 4. I don't see him sliding past Detroit.

Too much smoke. Chicago likes him, Detroit likes him.

Hughes
Kakko

....

Turcotte
Byram
Zegras
Dach

I think those four names are way more likely to go by 7 than the others. Who is cracking that list?

Cozens has been quiet. Krebs got injured. Caulfield is a winger at the end of the day. Knight? I know some people have been saying some teams have him in the top 5 or 10.

I feel like the only way the Rangers get Zegras at this point is if they make a deal prior to the draft (let's for the 8th pick), and Zegras is still sitting there at the fifth spot. Maybe you can turn 8 and a second into 5 and leap frog Detroit.

But you'd have to be in range before the draft, and you'd likely have to have find a willing trade partner to leap frog Detroit.

 

[Matt4776]

I'm skeptical that a package around Buchenvich nets a top 10 pick too. I think the Rangers would almost certainly have to take a bad contract back to facilitate it if it does happen (not Lucic, think Manning).

I'd easily take back Manning to facilitate that.

 

[Edge]

I'm skeptical that a package around Buchenvich nets a top 10 pick too. I think the Rangers would almost certainly have to take a bad contract back to facilitate it if it does happen (not Lucic, think Manning).

The Rangers have thus far been reluctant to take back bad contracts. So that is a potential hold up in any deal right now.

 

[TheBPA]

Does anyone have the feeling, with the uncertainty of who will get picked where, that any of the trades we're talking about are going to end up happening during the draft? Teams waiting to see if their guy ends up being available for them.

Yes. There’s really no need to rush it. Either the guy(s) you might want are there at 7 or 8, or they’re not.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Because the 8th isn't being discussed for Kreider. It's being discussed for Buch. Oilers don't want Kreider.

And I want the 8th pick for a center.

I think you are really overvaluing these picks.

But Buch will never be the Buch here that he would be riding next to McDavid.

So if Buch is 80 point Buch in Edmonton, I don't feel like I gave up an 80 point player. I feel like I gave up the 60 point player he would have been here.

A 60 point winger is a really good player and is far more likely to be better than anything we draft at #8.

Well it sounds like, according to Edge, the Rangers have made whatever proposal to Edmonton and Buffalo, but revolving around Buch+ for #8 or #7, respectively.

It's up to the other teams to say yes, or to counter.

So all this "I don't know if I'd move Buch" is a little irrelevant, because the Rangers have offered him.

Apparently.

It's not irrelevant. It's literally the point of this forum.

Vasili Podkolzin for Pavel any takers?

Hasn't he dropped pretty far recently? I was reading he might go quite a lot later. I'd prefer Cozens if we actually do pull the trigger and he's there.

No worries; my plan involves signing Panarin too.

He's probably going to sign with Florida and there's a rumor out there that they have a deal in place with CBJ.

 

[mas0764]

Nothing to do with that
It’s a combo of the salary cap ceiling holdup

And just the dynamic of it. It’s a draft trade and for each player, he’s got 2 teams, he’s giving time to let them put in their best offers.

Ok gorts wants it done before the picks get made. Doesn’t mean he was in a rush to do it last night.

And frankly part of it might be the Rangers.

Do they want to trade Buch for 8 if the first 7 picks go:

Hughes to NJD
Kakko to NYR
Turcotte to CHI
Byram to COL
Dach to LAK
Zegras to DET
Cozens to BUF

??

I mean, now you are trading for.... ? Who at that spot? Caulfield? Boldy? A winger? Then all this speculation about "why are we trading Buch" becomes way more relevant. Why would I give up a 24 year old who has the potential to score 30-35 goals for Caulfield? Isn't Caulfield exactly that, what I already have? If I'm giving up Buch for a guy I think is a 70 point center that's way different.

Conversely, I think 8 is a little early for Newhook or Krebs. You probably can get Newhook at 14 if you move Kreider to Arizona. Or if not, get 14, then move up slightly with a second.

 

[GAGLine]

I don't want to fall into the Buffalo trap of being very limited on capable NHL players cause we traded them all for futures. Besides Kakko Lemieux and Fast who is a good NHL winger we have, right now? This is with the fact in mind that Vesey/Namest can reasonably be assumed to be traded. I'm sure Krav and Chytil etc will make a case for themselves but I don't want a line-up full of half kids half 4th liners/replacement levels.

If we end up trading Kreider and Buch, we are going to have plenty of money to sign some vet wingers. They may not be Panarin, but we could add some older players on shorter deals to provide the necessary leadership and experience.

 

[mas0764]

A 60 point winger is a really good player and is far more likely to be better than anything we draft at #8.

I don't agree. I think this year's center class is loaded with top 6 centers who will become 60-70 point guys or better. Someone will probably bust but I think most of these guys are keepers. Very strong center class.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I wonder if JD tries to help out and steps in on these discussions. It sounds like Gorton is having trouble sealing the deal.

Nah. Everyone's weighing their options up to the last minute, and Gorts is playing it patient as he should, allowing the bidders to work against each other. There's a moment to say "now's the time: I need your last, best" but 10 hours before the draft ain't it. You want to be able to say "I've got a better offer" not "I need to make the deal ASAP so that I can make another deal."

 

[TheBPA]

I feel like the only way the Rangers get Zegras at this point is if they make a deal prior to the draft (let's for the 8th pick), and Zegras is still sitting there at the fifth spot. Maybe you can turn 8 and a second into 5 and leap frog Detroit.

But you'd have to be in range before the draft, and you'd likely have to have find a willing trade partner to leap frog Detroit.

Seems like we are realistically talking about cozens/caufield at the 7/8 spots then. Makes me a bit more hesitant to make the Buch deal if zegras can’t be had.

 

[Vitto79]

Does anyone have the feeling, with the uncertainty of who will get picked where, that any of the trades we're talking about are going to end up happening during the draft? Teams waiting to see if their guy ends up being available for them.

Yep which makes the first half of the draft really interesting . That could make or break a deal like the rumoured MCD to Edmonton to take Keller

 

[Edge]

Seems like we are realistically talking about cozens/caufield at the 7/8 spots then. Makes me a bit more hesitant to make the Buch deal if zegras can’t be had.

I think there are several names the Rangers like at that spot and feel confident they can get. I believe we know many of them. Do we know all of them? Probably not.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Yeah after 2 it will be tough to zero in on a player if they make a deal prior to the draft. If that happens I would hope and almost expect to be higher up like top 12

But what I see more likely happening Is during the draft for a guy they really like who falls a little bit, or someone who they are really high on, earlier. Kinda like what they did with Miller, mid to late round so they don’t have to overpay.

I don’t think anyone I’ll move off top ten unless there is overpayment to be honest, this is a good draft

 

[mas0764]

I feel like the only way the Rangers get Zegras at this point is if they make a deal prior to the draft (let's for the 8th pick), and Zegras is still sitting there at the fifth spot. Maybe you can turn 8 and a second into 5 and leap frog Detroit.

But you'd have to be in range before the draft, and you'd likely have to have find a willing trade partner to leap frog Detroit.

And there is always a decent chance to get surprises like Barrett Hayton going 6, but even Kotkaniemi shooting up to 3 was rumored well in advance. No news about Zegras other than everyone loves him. He's not gonna slide. Dach will slide before him, if it's someone. At this point, I also think Cozens is on the outside looking in, regarding the top 7, but we'll see. Not that he won't end up being a great player too.

 

[Off Sides]

The Rangers have thus far been reluctant to take back bad contracts. So that is a potential hold up in any deal right now.

Which would add fuel to the idea that they are looking to spend/use major cap on something(s) this off-season which are not cap dumps.

 

[Tawnos]

Yes. There’s really no need to rush it. Either the guy(s) you might want are there at 7 or 8, or they’re not.

I think the Rangers feel very, very confident they'll get someone they really want in those spots. I was more thinking about it from Buffalo's or Edmonton's perspective. Let's say the first 6 are just a run on forwards and the Sabres had Byram as the top guy on their board (after the big-2). If they already dealt the pick, they've already given up the option to draft him. Swap out Byram for anyone else in the 3-10 range.

 

[Edge]

There's two approaches I can see.

One is to get in a certain range to either catch a faller, or be in a position to slide up a few spots for him.

The second is to get a little higher because mathematically you're confident a guy you have in a cluster will be there (and you can potentially slide up a few slots).

 

[NernieBichols]

To be devil's advocate, wouldn't you say Rangers need wingers too?

Chytil/andersson
Kakko/kravtsov
Lemeuix
Strome can play wing
Edge mentioned they think Barron can become a good complimentary winger, maybe arriving as soon as 20-21

Panarin?
JP or Alex Nylander
4th line signees: Hathaway, martinook etc

Rangers depth chart is already kinda starting to bust at the seams. With 7 picks a year to come, and with trades/signing always a possibility.

Once your at that stage, what else is there to do but make the top of your depth charts are as prime and quality as possible.

1c or 1w prospect (boldy/Caufield) drafted with all those years of team friendly salary.

That’s whats up

 

[mas0764]

If we end up trading Kreider and Buch, we are going to have plenty of money to sign some vet wingers. They may not be Panarin, but we could add some older players on shorter deals to provide the necessary leadership and experience.

No, everything is going to go against us. No one will want to sign with us. The player we'd draft at 8 suck. We can't do anything.

Waah waaaaah

Some real Debbie Downers on this board. But that's their thing. Be negative so you can't be disappointed.