Roster Building Thread IV (2022-23): Luck of the Irish

[Kravtsov420]

What does this even mean?

Not for nothing , but there are legitimate gripes with the players and coaching staff. It’s never one sided how people react in hyperbole, but there are legitimate criticisms to be made.

This is a discussion board where we can discuss these things. It’s not 100% rainbows

 

[Leonardo87]

Us playing a game would be kind of great right now. I’ve been home sick as a dog since Monday and diagnosed with pneumonia and possible abscess on the right lung (not AS bad as it sounds, it’s a build up of phlegm and pus, but not a necrotic abscess like you might get on your skin) today so, suffice to say, I have never felt worse in my life. I’d kill to watch a Rangers win and not my wife’s cringe TV series’ right now.

Just dizzy, short of breath and miserable. Starting 2 weeks of doxycycline. The only part that really sucks is I can’t pay attention to the little dude for at least a few days because kids can contract pneumonia somewhat easily.

Ugh sorry man, Hope you feel better.

 

[haohmaru]

To be fair, besides Andy Bathgate, Bill Cook, & Rod Gilbert (and 3 seasons of Jagr), our team's overall history at RW is not overly spectacular.

Bure? Gartner?

 

[bhamill]

Us playing a game would be kind of great right now. I’ve been home sick as a dog since Monday and diagnosed with pneumonia and possible abscess on the right lung (not AS bad as it sounds, it’s a build up of phlegm and pus, but not a necrotic abscess like you might get on your skin) today so, suffice to say, I have never felt worse in my life. I’d kill to watch a Rangers win and not my wife’s cringe TV series’ right now.

Just dizzy, short of breath and miserable. Starting 2 weeks of doxycycline. The only part that really sucks is I can’t pay attention to the little dude for at least a few days because kids can contract pneumonia somewhat easily.

Hope you are better very soon!

 

[McRanger92]

Not for nothing , but there are legitimate gripes with the players and coaching staff. It’s never one sided how people react in hyperbole, but there are legitimate criticisms to be made.

This is a discussion board where we can discuss these things. It’s not 100% rainbows

Ok? I was asking him how he thinks the sky is falling, which is the exact hyperbole you're referring to.

No team is perfect but he sky is not falling. Sorry if thats too much underreaction lol. I usually stay away after a couple losses in a row because it's a big pity party and the discussion is pointless ("Gallant is an idiot and the lines I like will definitely work!"). I spend way too much of my time watching and caring about this team, specifically over the past 18 months, to not think they are going to be just fine.

 

[gravey9]

Rangers dont really have that luxury with a flat cap. It's possible he doesnt break camp with the team but he's a talented prospect on an ELC, he wont be in Hartford for an extended period of time imo.

I’m not so certain. He is another LW. He would likely need to play RW. We haven’t seen that switch too much with the current staff.

Beyond that, I agree that there will be some salary cap issues to work out. Many ways to address. Cuylle is getting close and is likely going to get first crack at roster.

I think it will be a few years before Othman will have the full man strength to play his style for 82+.

Point is, the need to bring him up re cap is a bit overstated. I have appreciated the way they’ve left Robertson and Cuylle in HFD this year. I think it’s the better way to develop these kids. I hope Berard ans Sykora are similar slow cookers.

 

[pld459666]

What the f*** is this? The players choose the lines?

That's why players love playing for Gallant

 

[CLW]

Didnt Laf just have a 2 goal game against Boston? I stayed away for a few days but why so much talk about him? Seems like he's been playing really well recently.

Also people pining over Stutzle are cringey. Talk about an easy player to play against. Diving all over the ice and getting flattened on hits by 5'11 guys like Vinny Trocheck. Lafreniere will be a better player player by the time they are both 26-27.

Laffy was getting the bounces against Boston. Deflection goals are hit or miss and he hit one, the second goal was also deflected by a Boston D's stick from a basic throw the puck at the net play.

In a way I like that Laffy has started freewheeling a bit more, he's supposed to be a star and on the Rangers freewheeling is what the stars do - the downside is that his line is a bit disjointed as a result. Tbh I wish Kakko would do the same, but I doubt he will.

 

[McRanger92]

What the f*** is this? The players choose the lines?

The players probably know better than Gallant honestly

 

[CLW]

What bothers me about this shit lineups... we have limited practice time available. We wont practice for the next month probably... Maybe get a full practice in at the end of March?

We are wasting valuable time to practice with a group that will inevitably change. Then that practice time is a waste of time. Do you really think the PP units will be separate long term? Kreider Zibs Tank has been horrendous analytically at even strength.

I just dont get the thought process. Over complicating simple solutions

Thought process? Stop kidding us.

 

[Fitzy]

The quote reads a lot more like “I’m giving these lines one last shot” because the players like them, not “I’m gonna force these lines to the end of the season”

 

[Daves a mess]

I added more to the edit lol but what do you think the issue is? I wasn’t that high on Kakko or Lafreniere from the beginning as their skating was always a red flag to me and I didn’t think they were was flashy or had as many tools as other players near the top of those drafts. But I think they should still be a lot better than they are now.

Watching videos of analysts talking about them or reading old posts is frankly depressing. People were saying Laf was better than MacKinnon & Matthews, the best since McDavid. People were saying Kakko was better than Hughes. These guys were both expected to come in and get 65-70pts their rookie season. Not even remotely close to that in their 4th & 3rd seasons. Something is very very wrong here.

I don’t think the fact that Panarin plays a skill game means that the coach is encouraging everybody to do so though. Panarin would still try stupid shit with Mike Keenan behind the bench lol

I'm gonna get my head checked. I'm liking almost everything you are posting lately lol..

Fml

 

[JimmyG89]

I think the rule changes and new tactics are finally coming to fruition. Kids are definitely more skilled. No cross checking in front has helped a lot.. sticks have become absurd too.. PP success has taken off as well. Feel like everyone is running a variation of 1-3-1 now

In with the new, out with the old. We're almost there.

On defense, I dont buy that. The good teams attack as 5 and defend as 5. There's no more 'roles' in that sense. Every skater needs to be involved in every aspect. once again, we're not there yet.

Goalie equipment changes also has helped with scoring. Pad sizes are down. Hank used to be able to completely close his 5 hole with just his pads if he wanted to. Those were the rules, so it's not as if anyone was cheating doing that.

Jerseys on them are more snug too, opens those holes under the arms.

Also, if you look at 3rd liners and even 4th liners, it's not just guys with size that grind, and that is even for teams on the playoff bubble. That a bigger reason why scoring is up than just the guys at the top of the lineup.

It comes down to that there are less and less guys that are strictly used for defensive purposes. If you are a PK specialist, you still need around 25-30 points to provide the right kind of value that makes you a contender. Same for defensemen. Being a "shutdown" type still requires you to be around 20 points, otherwise you are in and out of the lineup. For example, the 2013-14 season, K'Andre Miller would have been 30th in P/GP with his current season. He is 49th this season. It's not just that the top end is higher, but the middle of the pack is higher too.

But with these ups will be some downs eventually. There will be defensive innovation or maybe even more goalie innovation to their technique that will push things back the other way.

 

[McRanger92]

Laffy was getting the bounces against Boston. Deflection goals are hit or miss and he hit one, the second goal was also deflected by a Boston D's stick from a basic throw the puck at the net play.

In a way I like that Laffy has started freewheeling a bit more, he's supposed to be a star and on the Rangers freewheeling is what the stars do - the downside is that his line is a bit disjointed as a result. Tbh I wish Kakko would do the same, but I doubt he will.

You get the bounces by going to areas of the ice where the bounces happen. Lafreniere has been criticized for not scoring enough "pretty" goals. Which is ludicrous because they all count the same, and I prefer the dirty ones because not enough guys on this team do it with enough consistency.

Also I take issue with the bolded. He's definitely not supposed to be a star, especially not on this team. He's never been asked to be one or needed to be one either. Not sure why people expect him to produce like one. The Kid has a ton of runway left as far as I'm concerned. He's off to a much better start this career than Chytil or Kakko had too.

 

[JimmyG89]

The quote reads a lot more like “I’m giving these lines one last shot” because the players like them, not “I’m gonna force these lines to the end of the season”

The players do need some freedom in this regard. Gallant is going to respect that, but not to the point where the team will suffer from it. End of the day, he is there to win games. We all but know the team will be in the postseason. If guys want to have certain lines, I don't mind it. You can tinker with things from there. As long as these guys know that if you don't get things done the right way, the lines are changing, I think it works.

 

[CLW]

You get the bounces by going to areas of the ice where the bounces happen. Lafreniere has been criticized for not scoring enough "pretty" goals. Which is ludicrous because they all count the same, and I prefer the dirty ones because not enough guys on this team do it with enough consistency.

Also I take issue with the bolded. He's definitely not supposed to be a star, especially not on this team. He's never been asked to be one or needed to be one either. Not sure why people expect him to produce like one. The Kid has a ton of runway left as far as I'm concerned. He's off to a much better start this career than Chytil or Kakko had too.

Laffy's shot was a floater from the boards. Kakko has deflections goals too this season. Any 1OA is without a doubt expected to be a star, on the Rangers or not. I'm not down on any of the kids, I just wish they had better coaching.

 

[JimmyG89]

The line might not be ideal at the moment, but the effort is there. Vladdy has been doing quite well recently. We talked about Kane, but Tarasenko having his family all set and now time to practice and work through things is a big thing. The Rangers had a lot of road games the last month. I can't imagine it being easy that you are trying to get your family set in NYC when you are doing the western Canada swing.

Kane probably has things figured out as well. Not having a game day for 4 days, can get a lot done for him and his GF/Kid.

It's a big reason why I'm not a proponent of changing the lines just yet. Also Gallant getting the lines some indirect PP work together was a good idea too. We talk about building chemistry, and these guys are all talented, but having that extra time and space could spark something and carry it over in 5v5 play.

 

[McRanger92]

Laffy's shot was a floater from the boards. Kakko has deflections goals too this season. Any 1OA is without a doubt expected to be a star, on the Rangers or not. I'm not down on any of the kids, I just wish they had better coaching.

People probably would think Lafreniere is a future star if he got drafted to a team that wouldve given him top line minutes and top PP time. Also as far as #1 OA picks go, since 2010 only like 4 of them became actual stars (MacK, Matthews, McD, and now Hughes). The jury is still very much out on a couple other guys, including Lafreniere, but I fear people will still be whining about him if he ends up a Hischier, Hall or RNH type.

 

[pld459666]

Lafreniere is not blameless here, but if I were the Rangers, and was fortunate to draft 1 & 2 OA in consecutive years, both would have been on the top two lines and guys like Kreider would have been moved to the 3rd line.

I personally believe you develope offensive players by putting them in offensive situations and let them build their confidence.

There's always the possibility that both AL and KK pop in a year or three, but the further they get from their draft years without meaningful minutes on PP and or PK, the less likely it will be that either guy develops into close to the player that they were projected to become.

I've said this before, if I were either guy, I'd low-key asked to be moved this summer.

This is not an organization that is willing to put in the time, effort or roster decisions needed to properly develop what should be top end prospects.

 

[McRanger92]

Lafreniere is not blameless here, but if I were the Rangers, and was fortunate to draft 1 & 2 OA in consecutive years, both would have been on the top two lines and guys like Kreider would have been moved to the 3rd line.

I personally believe you develope offensive players by putting them in offensive situations and let them build their confidence.

There's always the possibility that both AL and KK pop in a year or three, but the further they get from their draft years without meaningful minutes on PP and or PK, the less likely it will be that either guy develops into close to the player that we're projected to become.

I've said this before, if I were either guy, I'd low-key asked to be moved this summer.

This is not an organization that is willing to put in the time, effort or roster decisions needed to properly develop what should be top end prospects.

I think if the Rangers had a do-over they wouldve traded Kreider at the trade deadline before covid hit. But they were in a playoff race and had no way of knowing they'd somehow end up with the #1OA pick who played the same position. Hard for me to blame them.

In Kakko's case, they did try to clear the decks for him. They traded Buchnevich to give him a top 6 spot, Kakko got hurt in like game 3 against the Habs last year and stagnated. He's become a big, strong guy who wont go to the net. He's in the same position Chytil was last year when he was scratched late in the regular season. It's nut up or pack it up time for 24.

Also the bolded is like the opposite of what the Rangers are doing lol. They are clearly more than fine letting these guys develop slowly behind the real difference makers. It's the fans that arent OK with that.

 

[Leonardo87]

Lafreniere is not blameless here, but if I were the Rangers, and was fortunate to draft 1 & 2 OA in consecutive years, both would have been on the top two lines and guys like Kreider would have been moved to the 3rd line.

I personally believe you develope offensive players by putting them in offensive situations and let them build their confidence.

There's always the possibility that both AL and KK pop in a year or three, but the further they get from their draft years without meaningful minutes on PP and or PK, the less likely it will be that either guy develops into close to the player that they were projected to become.

I've said this before, if I were either guy, I'd low-key asked to be moved this summer.

This is not an organization that is willing to put in the time, effort or roster decisions needed to properly develop what should be top end prospects.

This pretty much here. We drafted Laf after locking up two LW's long term. Not easy to switch to your off-side. They tired it but didn't work well.

Also, spot on about the organization, adding Kane and Tarasenko is just another example of how impatient the franchise is and want to win now, even if it shortens the window of opportunity.

Drury has basically said, gonna push aside the kids for some aging vets to get the job done.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Lafreniere is not blameless here, but if I were the Rangers, and was fortunate to draft 1 & 2 OA in consecutive years, both would have been on the top two lines and guys like Kreider would have been moved to the 3rd line.

I personally believe you develope offensive players by putting them in offensive situations and let them build their confidence.

There's always the possibility that both AL and KK pop in a year or three, but the further they get from their draft years without meaningful minutes on PP and or PK, the less likely it will be that either guy develops into close to the player that they were projected to become.

I've said this before, if I were either guy, I'd low-key asked to be moved this summer.

This is not an organization that is willing to put in the time, effort or roster decisions needed to properly develop what should be top end prospects.

Didn't Laff start in the top 6 his first year here?

 

[McRanger92]

This pretty much here. We drafted Laf after locking up two LW's long term. Not easy to switch to your off-side. They tired it but didn't work well.

Also, spot on about the organization, adding Kane and Tarasenko is just another example of how impatient the franchise in and want to win now, even if it shortens the window of opportunity.

Drury has basically said, gonna push aside the kids for some aging vets to get the job done.

Kakko and the dearly departed Kravtsov didnt exactly bust the door down to play in the top 6 though right? Would we all feel better if we were watching the lottery odds this year and last instead of, you know, actually being a good team and a contender?

The team isnt ready to give up on these guys, not even close. So why are we worried about what other teams players are doing. Slow and steady development on a winning team is a fine strategy for me. Wasnt the stated goal to be contenders in perpetuity? This is how it works

 

[pld459666]

Didn't Laff start in the top 6 his first year here?

If he did, it was short lived.

Additionally, no significant PP time

 

[DanielBrassard]

It's a bit of a gray area. I would say 12-17 is probably the Hank run, and it's also DPE2 (which was low-key worse than the DPE) and a lot of our posters are from that time.

It went from about 4 goals then to 6 goals now.

It wasn't that low, it was at 5.3-5.4 GPG during the early to mid 2010s. compared to the last few years which went from around 6 to 6.3-6.4 last and this season. But yeah it's a fairly dramatic increase.