Roster Building Thread IV (2022-23): Luck of the Irish

[Machinehead]

Yeah and even then that’s bullshit. You lost me years ago when someone posted Fast had a better points per 60 than Giroux. Sorry.

Because he did!!

That was the year right before Giroux moved to wing full-time and he was terrible that year.

You say you're trying to ask respectfully and then you get mad at the most black and white stat there is.

Points per 60 is points. You count how many were scored.

 

[Machinehead]

He might have, that doesn’t mean he’s better than Giroux lol.

They were pretty f***in close that year

Guy has a bad year and it's my fault

 

[Go Rangers]

Patty Kane. Patty Kane. How can the Rangers say no if Patty Kane wants to be a Ranger? He has three Cups. Showtime. Greatest American player ever.

Whoop-de-damn-do​

Rangers can’t say no to any player that wants to come to New York.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

With Goodrow and Vesey. Not players known for their offensive acumen.

f***ing bananas that people think Lafreniere gets sufficient ice time LMFAO. 16 minutes is not sufficient. And he's still producing. Everyone's new love child Stutzle gets over 20 minutes and top PP minutes. Huge f***ing difference. But don't let facts muddle narrative.

The team was playing with 11 forwards a bunch of guys were getting shifts with Goodrow and Vesey because they didn't have a regular line mate. Laf getting shifts there was him getting extra time. Same as Mika, Panarin, Kreider, Chytil, Tarasenko etc... all were when they also were getting shifts with Goodrow and Vesey.

Lafreniere just got put on PP1. He's gotten regular shifts in OT, he's been used 4v4, he's been in the shootouts. Not sure what you're so mad about when it comes to him this season. He's developing we should just worry about him and stop comparing him to Stutzle who is a totally different player and in a totally different situation on his team both in how he's performed and his role in their lineup which is a totally different lineup than ours.

And when Kakko was flashing as one of the best rw’s we’ve ever had? And then got moved down to 3rd line once we started to get injuries? Even though he was producing.
Production is a function of a bunch of things but primarily ice time and ice time on the power play. Kakko and Laf aren’t far behind mika and Ck at 5v5. Until Kane’s 10pts in 4 games Kakko was out producing him.

Man, I like Kakko too but one of the best RWs we've ever had? Come the hell on, absolutely nobody thinks that.

 

[UnSandvich]

The team was playing with 11 forwards a bunch of guys were getting shifts with Goodrow and Vesey because they didn't have a regular line mate. Laf getting shifts there was him getting extra time. Same as Mika, Panarin, Kreider, Chytil, Tarasenko etc... all were when they also were getting shifts with Goodrow and Vesey.

Lafreniere just got put on PP1. He's gotten regular shifts in OT, he's been used 4v4, he's been in the shootouts. Not sure what you're so mad about when it comes to him this season. He's developing we should just worry about him and stop comparing him to Stutzle who is a totally different player and in a totally different situation on his team both in how he's performed and his role in their lineup which is a totally different lineup than ours.


Man, I like Kakko too but one of the best RWs we've ever had? Come the hell on, absolutely nobody thinks that.

To be fair, besides Andy Bathgate, Bill Cook, & Rod Gilbert (and 3 seasons of Jagr), our team's overall history at RW is not overly spectacular.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

To be fair, besides Andy Bathgate, Bill Cook, & Rod Gilbert (and 3 seasons of Jagr), our team's overall history at RW is not overly spectacular.

What about Rick Middleton and Tony Amonte…oh wait.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Man, I like Kakko too but one of the best RWs we've ever had? Come the hell on, absolutely nobody thinks that.

You want to tell me early season kakko didnt look fantastic?

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Because he did!!

That was the year right before Giroux moved to wing full-time and he was terrible that year.

You say you're trying to ask respectfully and then you get mad at the most black and white stat there is.

Points per 60 is points. You count how many were scored.

The simple fact that Fast was debated to have been better than Giroux is laughable. Fast’s career high in points is 20, two zero. Giroux’s career low in points is 27, his ROOKIE YEAR. To have even suggested that Fast was having a better year whatever year it was is comical and a joke with all due respect.

 

[Machinehead]

The simple fact that Fast was debated to have been better than Giroux is laughable. Fast’s career high in points is 20, two zero. Giroux’s career low in points is 27, his ROOKIE YEAR. To have even suggested that Fast was having a better year whatever year it was is comical and a joke with all due respect.

Nobody said he was better. He scored more per minute at even strength. It's a fact.

 

[mike14]

The simple fact that Fast was debated to have been better than Giroux is laughable. Fast’s career high in points is 20, two zero. Giroux’s career low in points is 27, his ROOKIE YEAR. To have even suggested that Fast was having a better year whatever year it was is comical and a joke with all due respect.

34 for Fast's career high, 33 was his best as a Ranger...

 

[bl02]

To be fair, besides Andy Bathgate, Bill Cook, & Rod Gilbert (and 3 seasons of Jagr), our team's overall history at RW is not overly spectacular.

This team could use a Mike Gartner flying down the right wing blasting a shot past the goalie.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

You want to tell me early season kakko didnt look fantastic?

Sure but looking like one of the best RWers we’ve ever had is a huge huge leap. I’m a Kakko fan but that’s too much hyperbole to not point out.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

This team could use a Mike Gartner flying down the right wing blasting a shot past the goalie.

I'd even settle for Gaborick.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

To be fair, besides Andy Bathgate, Bill Cook, & Rod Gilbert (and 3 seasons of Jagr), our team's overall history at RW is not overly spectacular.

Nash, Zuccarello, Gaborik, kovalev, Gartner just off the top of my head, better than Kakko.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

@Machinehead, if all we do is teach our guys to be defensively responsible plugs how are bleeding high danger chances against and aren't the Islanders of a few years ago?

 

[bleedblue94]

He hasn’t dropped as far and Hubes but Barkov has regressed as well.

I thought he played with Bennet

He did play with Bennett.

Now he plays with Kadri.

Similar Center, different system. My point.

Kadri has one anomaly season in his contract year. Tell me who's as good as barkov on the pp in Calgary? Most of the drop in huberdeau's production has been on the pp and the ppp he would generate. 5v5 is down significantly from last year but last year was an anomaly for him as well. He had 72 even strength points, his career high before that was 58 but he's typically in the 40s. The guy had 38ppps last year, this year he has 13. Brutal.

Prior to last year what was kadri's career high for points? 61, he's broken 60 once in his career before his contract year, .

Centermen aside, duclair may have been a bigger factor than the center. Duclair's speed complimented the playmaking. The lack of speed for the flames has been a glaring issue for years. There's also the simple possibility that he actually just doesn't like Calgary as much despite him liking their money. It's an ugly truth, but some players just don't like certain situations/amenities/coach's/teammates and it affects their play.

 

[bleedblue94]

You want to tell me early season kakko didnt look fantastic?

A lot of players look fantastic early in a season before teams settle into their structures. Tipping scale for kakko is next year for me. Kid shows flashes of great and irrelevant. Needs to determine which one he wants to be in this league. I've said for 2+ years he has nischushkin written all over him which is fine but it's not what you want with a 2oa pick, and this org can't wait until he's 28 to figure out how to be nischushkin

 

[BBKers]

Offensively the team has been extremely stifled since we lost Lindgren. Fox looks marooned - barely hanging on for dear life treading water in the shark pool - Miller foolishly went full saliva and the rest of the 4 guys play Rambo hockey juggling grenades (taking too long to do something with the puck => turnovers in defensive zone) and giving the puck up constantly when they regain possession with the futile Jurassic board out pass - which might be OK if it could be properly facilitated - but it is not working with the 4 ogres. At all. Total discourse. . . No breakout at all. This means we rarely get enough speed to get through the neutral zone to create a potent counterattack. Let’s see the team with a healthy D first. The offense begins when we get the puck. But if we cough it up consistently there is just a bunch of chasing and energy spent unnecessarily as there is a foolish flock of headless chickens - chopped off by their own defenders disabilities and coaches inability to adjust - running the agenda. Rangers have not been able to play dump and chase - they are playing “chase and chase” hockey. Extremely counterproductive and frustrating for the forwards (and goalkeepers). Anybody with half a brain can see this right now if they have played some hockey. If not too, I guess

 

[Savant]

@Machinehead, if all we do is teach our guys to be defensively responsible plugs how are bleeding high danger chances against and aren't the Islanders of a few years ago?

Because the Islanders of a few years ago had Trotz playing the trap

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Jeez this break between games feels like a lifetime

 

[RGY]

It has been just 2 games and I see the panic has set in.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

I would hate to be a kid of some of yall. 21 and the book is written. 21 and all you focus on is 'shortcomings'.

Kakko has struggled since the lines have shuffled, but night in and night out he started the season so hot. No one remembers, not good enough. You're 21, BE CONSISTENT EVERY NIGHT.

Laffy is so far beyond the biggest abberation of a first overall pick. I wont even get into the politics of bonkers ass COVID and the lockdowns, but he is the only #1 pick to ever have to deal with that. It 100% stunted his growth. It is what it is. Does it mean he will never touch his 1OA ceiling? ....no. Does it suck? Yeah, for sure.

I know other people went through it too and might be succeeding (they also may have actually played when he didn't) but this is a remarkable outlier scenario, and everyone throws it to the wayside.

The way I hear about Buch, or Stutzle or whoever else.... really makes me wonder how much some people are thinking about their ex or best friends gf.

 

[duhmetreE]

Kadri has one anomaly season in his contract year. Tell me who's as good as barkov on the pp in Calgary? Most of the drop in huberdeau's production has been on the pp and the ppp he would generate. 5v5 is down significantly from last year but last year was an anomaly for him as well. He had 72 even strength points, his career high before that was 58 but he's typically in the 40s. The guy had 38ppps last year, this year he has 13. Brutal.

Prior to last year what was kadri's career high for points? 61, he's broken 60 once in his career before his contract year, .

Centermen aside, duclair may have been a bigger factor than the center. Duclair's speed complimented the playmaking. The lack of speed for the flames has been a glaring issue for years. There's also the simple possibility that he actually just doesn't like Calgary as much despite him liking their money. It's an ugly truth, but some players just don't like certain situations/amenities/coach's/teammates and it affects their play.

Or instead of writing all that.... you can say he's not playing in Brunettes/Quennvilles system anymore

He's playing old school hockey. It doesn't reward skill. It rewards size, speed and determination.

 

[MrAlmost]

Points per 60 is not a great stat. As I understand it, it is points per 60 minutes of time the player plays, or ice time. If I am understanding that correctly, it is mashing multiple game events into 1 category which makes it a poor indicator of nuanced game-by-game information. Was the player sick? Did they get hurt? Were they moved to a lower/higher line? A game against the Blue Jackets and a game against the Bruins are 2 different beasts and just mashing the ice time together makes for a poor breakdown of a players scoring capability on a per game basis. Basically, not all games are equal which means not all minutes played are equal.

Because of this very reason, it is why a lot of people want to know how often a player makes an impact in games against higher competition. Playoff competition vs. non-Playoff competition. I don't know if Points per Game is any better, but I know there are too many flaws with Points per 60 for me to like it that much more over Points per Game.

Also, when I look at the leaders of both categories, it is often just the same guys, so was the breakdown really necessary in the first place? Haha

Points per 60 might have it's real use only be in the playoffs, when teams play each other multiple games in a row. That would make the stat far more viable.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

Jeez this break between games feels like a lifetime

Wait until the offseason rolls around.