Speculation: Roster Building Thread II (2022-23): The Puck is Prepared to be Mounted

[cheech70]

Would anyone consider a trade of:

Blais for Puljujaarvi (say with $1m retained)

would the Oilers?

 

[EdJovanovski]

No single player would help this team short of a McDavid. Even then, it wont make a cup difference

Even when we had Copp, Vatrano and Motte... That one little spurt post TDL quickly went away when the playoffs began. Our 5v5 game was an embarrassment, yet we found ways to win ( PP and Shesty predominantly ).

The system is the issue. We are playing dated hockey and we're not even executing that dated hockey system to a high level. So, we're at a double handicap. We're as good as the 'individual' any given game. We are not a team.

The league has advanced considerably. We have not. A team of 5 that works well together and as a unit will beat us 9 out of 10 times, unless there's a herculean effort by certain individuals. That is not a recipe for success imo

Panarin - McDavid - Kravtsov

There’s no way that team isn’t winning the cup lol

 

[AirGut]

Would anyone consider a trade of:

Blais for Puljujaarvi (say with $1m retained)

yes
I still don't understand how we never added at least 1 other Finnish player on this team after we drafted Kakko

 

[McRanger92]

The Devils allowed themselves to suck. We were too afraid of wasting the last years of a functional Chris Kreider to finish off our rebuild properly, which included either trading him or playing him lower in the lineup so Kakko, Laf, and Kravtsov could get unearned minutes so they could actually develop.

Kreider should have been traded for the Robertson and a first package. One of the biggest mistakes the team has ever made.

I know you have an anti-Kreider hard-on, but if we're looking at expensive wingers blocking the youth the problem is clearly Panarin. We got 1 year of him being a true difference maker, and he's been nothing but a perimeter passer since the Wilson incident, and perhaps even before that imo.

19.6 mil tied up in 2 nightly disappointments in Panarin & Trouba is the real problem. Kreider is underpaid for his contributions this year (36 goal, 69 point pace) and last

 

[Crease]

Look up JT Miller and Pavel Buchnevich on Hockey Reference. It's pretty telling. Both of them leveled up around the age of 25. Time on ice jumped from 15 minutes to 18-20 minutes. Powerplay points jumped from 10s to 20-30. Some of this because they got better and deserved it. Some of this because the clubs traded for them, invested in them, and gave them the opportunity to excel. Development is a partnership between the player and the club.

Are the Rangers going to make the same mistakes with Laf, Kakko, Chytil, and Kravtsov? It's tracking that way.

 

[SA16]

Look up JT Miller and Pavel Buchnevich on Hockey Reference. It's pretty telling. Both of them leveled up around the age of 25. Time on ice jumped from 15 minutes to 18-20 minutes. Powerplay points jumped from 10s to 20-30. Some of this because they got better and deserved it. Some of this because the clubs traded for them, invested in them, and gave them the opportunity to excel. Development is a partnership between the player and the club.

Are the Rangers going to make the same mistakes with Laf, Kakko, Chytil, and Kravtsov? It's tracking that way.

There is no comparison. J.T. Miller and Pavel Buchnevich were both good 5v5 scorers with the Rangers. They produced in a limited role. The others have not. Chytil did one year which was clearly unsustainable by every metric.

 

[JohnC]

Whoever posted earlier that the Rangers were 29% in faceoffs yesterday was correct. Unless the home Sens data folks were fudging the numbers.View attachment 615513

I’d imagine people were taking exception to the bold claim that the team hasn’t won the face off battle a single time this year.

 

[NYR Viper]

would the Oilers?

I think they would consider it. Puljujaarvi is a whipping boy there and he hasn't gelled with really anyone. He has asked out a couple of times and he has a $3m cap hit this season (RFA at years end). Will they qualify him? Probably not.

 

[McRanger92]

There is no comparison. J.T. Miller and Pavel Buchnevich were both good 5v5 scorers with the Rangers. They produced in a limited role. The others have not. Chytil did one year which was clearly unsustainable by every metric.

This is a very fair point. Buch & Miller actually produced from day 1, despite flaws in their overall game.

If its a confidence thing with Laf/Chytil/Kakko, that's more on the player than the organization imo. I hate Gallant but its not like he benches them for mistakes or doesn't give them opportunities to play up in the lineup, because he does. Regardless, they haven't been good enough. There's still time because they are very young but there's a very real chance they just aren't as good as we hoped, and that's not really on the org as they were both consensus picks where they were taken. Im not sure I buy that they would be superstars right now if they were force fed powerplay time.

 

[bbny]

We need to evaluate K’Andre Miller’s fit with the org at this point. His value is bleeding just like Brady Skjei’s did after the first year or two. I think he needs a structured system to best utilize his talents and cover up his weaknesses, because he’s clearly a positionally challenged player in my view. This team doesn’t have any structure with Gallant, so either the coach is out or players who are struggling with whatever “system” this is need to start being shipped out. Now my preference is to change the coach right now, but if Drury is committed to Gallant then he needs to start making some moves. He should start with Miller. He’s a guy that several teams would line up for and he’s valuable enough to make a big enough splash in the lineup.

 

[McRanger92]

We need to evaluate K’Andre Miller’s fit with the org at this point. His value is bleeding just like Brady Skjei’s did after the first year or two. I think he needs a structured system to best utilize his talents and cover up his weaknesses, because he’s clearly a positionally challenged player in my view. This team doesn’t have any structure with Gallant, so either the coach is out or players who are struggling with whatever “system” this is need to start being shipped out. Now my preference is to change the coach right now, but if Drury is committed to Gallant then he needs to start making some moves. He should start with Miller. He’s a guy that several teams would line up for and he’s valuable enough to make a big enough splash in the lineup.

He needs to play more physical and be harder on the puck. Outside of that there's no reason to be dangling a 22 year old defenseman who has been a top 4 guy since day 1. We also have nothing at LD over the age of 25. As you mentioned, a new coach and an actual coaching structure, I bet he'd look much better.

 

[Daves a mess]

There is no comparison. J.T. Miller and Pavel Buchnevich were both good 5v5 scorers with the Rangers. They produced in a limited role. The others have not. Chytil did one year which was clearly unsustainable by every metric.

I hate your metrics until I agree with them.

Then I think they are awesome.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Trading Miller after 25 games of struggles would be bananalands. The dude was penciled in for a $5M plus extension before the season. Don’t make any rash decisions with young players.

 

[bbny]

He needs to play more physical and be harder on the puck. Outside of that there's no reason to be dangling a 22 year old defenseman who has been a top 4 guy since day 1. We also have nothing at LD over the age of 25. As you mentioned, a new coach and an actual coaching structure, I bet he'd look much better.

Being a top 4 guy on a team that lets up high quality chances left and right doesn’t mean that much. It’s not just about being physical though. He is frequently out of position. I prefer defensemen who are where they need to be on the ice on a more consistent basis. One of Miller’s bigger strengths I think would be exhibited on the PP, but he’s not going to get much opportunity there. Fox has that privilege on PP1 locked up for the next decade.

I’ll reiterate that my [strong] preference is a coaching change before trading anyone, but I really don’t see Drury canning Gallant. Not this season anyway.

 

[bbny]

Trading Miller after 25 games of struggles would be bananalands. The dude was penciled in for a $5M plus extension before the season. Don’t make any rash decisions with young players.

I think he still is. He’s not more valuable to the team than a Lindgren, but he’s going to get paid more anyway because of hype and “unrealized potential”. It will undoubtedly create a cap casualty somewhere else in the lineup in the next year or two (i.e., Lindgren).

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

I know you have an anti-Kreider hard-on, but if we're looking at expensive wingers blocking the youth the problem is clearly Panarin. We got 1 year of him being a true difference maker, and he's been nothing but a perimeter passer since the Wilson incident, and perhaps even before that imo.

19.6 mil tied up in 2 nightly disappointments in Panarin & Trouba is the real problem. Kreider is underpaid for his contributions this year (36 goal, 69 point pace) and last

Exactly, for all the Kreider hate, he gives the team a very different look and the ability to finish different kinds of goals, and you need the ability to score goals in different ways to beat different teams. Who is going to be his netfront presence if he's traded...Barclay Goodrow? Massive downgrade.

He's not going to score 52 goals again, but he's far from the problem with this team. The biggest albatross right now are the Trouba and Trocheck contracts, and Panarin is playing lousy as well, but I'd like to see the lines shuffled up to try Panarin-Chytil-Kravtsov and maybe he can pick it up.

Trocheck-Panarin are laughably lost when on the ice together.

 

[McRanger92]

Exactly, for all the Kreider hate, he gives the team a very different look and the ability to finish different kinds of goals, and you need the ability to score goals in different ways to beat different teams. Who is going to be his netfront presence if he's traded...Barclay Goodrow? Massive downgrade.

He's not going to score 52 goals again, but he's far from the problem with this team. The biggest albatross right now are the Trouba and Trocheck contracts, and Panarin is playing lousy as well, but I'd like to see the lines shuffled up to try Panarin-Chytil-Kravtsov and maybe he can pick it up.

Trocheck-Panarin are laughably lost when on the ice together.

Trocheck looks hurt and seems to be trying to do to much with the team struggling and him being a new face. I still like his gritty style though, we dont have enough of that.

Panarin is just a major major issue right now and going forward. 11.6 million and we need to rework the lineup every 3 games to get him going? He's supposed to be the guy to get other players going. Allergic to shooting and getting to the middle of the ice. The kids cant play with him because he's demanding the puck from them to make easily defended cross ice backhanders to no one. His production is fine and I'm sure his underlying numbers are adequate, but its flat out not enough when his hamstrung the organization with his cap hit. And don't get me started on Trouba.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

I would say Timo Meier fits our needs much better than patty kane. Of course, he is a pure rental.

 

[McRanger92]

I would say Timo Meier fits our needs much better than patty kane. Of course, he is a pure rental.

Imagine we could offload Panarin and replace him in the top 6 with Meier?

Kreider-Mika-Kakko
Lafreniere-Chytil-Meier

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Up until this season, Kakko is ahead of JT Miller on a production standpoint when you line up age/post draft years which IMO is the most accurate way to compare.

Are people really forgetting 2013-14 when Miller had 6 points in 30 games and everyone thought he was a bust? He did play lower in the lineup than Kakko has for a lot of that, admittedly.

5v5 Pts / 60:
Miller: D+2 0.39, D+3 0.77, D+4 1.51
Kakko: D+2 1.28, D+3 1.58, D+4 1.26

I don't think it's unfair to think Kakko could get going towards a higher pace as the season progresses.

He is personally generating a lot more individual scoring chances this year, up to 8.5 / 60 vs ~6 his first three seasons.

If he is hitting 1.7-1.9 by the end of the year that's good progress, if perhaps still slightly disappointing.

 

[haohmaru]

If the Rangers start bailing out on their young core we can kiss any chance at a Cup goodbye for the next decade.

Whatever the growing pains are, this is the year to sort it out. Kakko, Miller, LaFreniere, Chytil, Kravtsov, Jones are not trade chips. They are the future.

If we're a fringe/borderline playoff team come March then I don't give a flying shit how much cap space we've accrued - I try to move a vet/NMC if possible for yet another 1st, keep my two 1st's in a strong draft, and let the kids either achieve in the playoffs or live with the same disappointment that the '92-93 Rangers did and served as motivation for the next year.

Sooner or later you've got to throw the kids in the deep end and see if they swim. I liked the lineup last night. Hopefully GG sticks with it for 10 games and sees what he has.

 

[JohnC]

I’ve personally resigned my self to not being overly concerned with either Kakko or Laf until they’re probably around 24-25.

The big issue is the org needing them to be at that point a few years too soon, a problem that was bound to snowball when they idiotically signed Panarin in 2019 and stopping the rebuild dead in its tracks.

 

[Fitzy]

I think he still is. He’s not more valuable to the team than a Lindgren, but he’s going to get paid more anyway because of hype and “unrealized potential”. It will undoubtedly create a cap casualty somewhere else in the lineup in the next year or two (i.e., Lindgren).

The fact that Miller hasn't scored much this season, for me, is going to keep his cost way down.

I still hold out my position that the eventual cap casualty is either Goodrow or Trouba. Possibly both.

Trouba gone via trade for a middle 6 forward, and Goodrow either dumped or bought out.

I’ve personally resigned my self to not being overly concerned with either Kakko or Laf until they’re probably around 24-25.

The big issue is the org needing them to be at that point a few years too soon, a problem that was bound to snowball when they idiotically signed Panarin in 2019 and stopping the rebuild dead in its tracks.

Yeah but one of the chief benefits of drafting well is that you're able to get productivity from players for much cheaper than they would be if they were UFA.

If young guys don't become any good until they're getting salary arbitration it's not helping us round out the numbers on the roster as effectively.

The fact that Miller has been a top 4 guy on his ELC the last 2 and a half years has been very important.

 

[bl02]

Trading Miller after 25 games of struggles would be bananalands. The dude was penciled in for a $5M plus extension before the season. Don’t make any rash decisions with young players.

he's the one young player who has actually showed flashes of brilliance. Yes and against top competition. Not his fault his partner has sucked this year. He hasn't been the same since an amazing opening handful of games and I feel that has a lot to do with his d partner and coaching.

 

[JohnC]

Yeah but one of the chief benefits of drafting well is that you're able to get productivity from players for much cheaper than they would be if they were UFA.

If young guys don't become any good until they're getting salary arbitration it's not helping us round out the numbers on the roster as effectively.

The fact that Miller has been a top 4 guy on his ELC the last 2 and a half years has been very important.

Sure - but at this stage in time, I'm not the slightest bit concerned with any of Kakko or Laf's future contracts costing too much.