Speculation: Roster Building Thread II (2022-23): The Puck is Prepared to be Mounted

[GENESISPuck94]

Here's a question:

Does anyone think any of the vets have ever asked the coaching staff to play with Kakko or Laf instead of Vesey, Goodrow, Blais or whoever. I am trying not to get mad about hypotheticals, but I am having a hard time imagining the vets going to bat for the kids in all of the time they've been here.

A coach shouldn't be entertaining this kind of shit either. If Gallant is letting the vets run his own team he should be fired and replaced with a coach who has a spine.

 

[leetch99]

it's a depressing thought... but more and more i'm getting the impression that Strome was a leader on this team.

Panarin isn't the same without him. I like Trochek and i'm glad hes here, but he's a different player than Strome.

Trocheck looked much better in his earlier play....he will be OK once we get some stuff righted . Myself...he plays with Laff and Gauthier on his wings . All 3 would be attacking the net and I think he would do wonders for the confidence of Gauthier and Laff if they were given 10 games to get it going .

 

[MrAlmost]

The poor drafting in the high rounds is difficult to explain, especially when the team has been relatively good in the later rounds. That leads me to believe that the guys who get to make the decisions for the top picks are likely in their positions due to nepotism, and therefore do not know what the f*** they are doing. I think this Org is the worst with it. Constant hires of friends and family, like its the f***ing mob. Worst old boys club in the league. Need to hire people based on merit, not name.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

A coach shouldn't be entertaining this kind of shit either. If Gallant is letting the vets run his own team he should be fired and replaced with a coach who has a spine.

How many people with a spine want to work for Dolan and Sather?

 

[leetch99]

The Rangers biggest early season troubles mostly all stem from the defensive zone play which also includes the performance of both goalies . Our PP is off a bit but I think they can fix it with the current personnel at hand . We need HELP on the D and we need it ASAP . Not one of them is playing well back there including Fox who is overworked most nights . The big boys are not pulling their weight like Miller/Schneider/Lindgren/Trouba . I have to give Jones a pass as he is pretty green . The big boys are also playing far too SOFT .

So...is it the D itself or the system Gord Murphy has them playing ? Maybe it might be time to ship him out which sends a shot across the bow of the good ship Gallant . Find a good defense coach and see what transpires . Is Jacques Martin still working ?
I think once our back end gets cleaned up then the perceived problems up front will get righted because of the D improvements . I also think once the D coverage is fixed so will follow our goaltending problems . They best figure it out soon .

What is out there for defensive help and within our budget ? I know we are going to have to subtract at least a million dollar player from the forward units to make it work or more if we go for Chycrun in Phoenix . Are there cheaper alternatives available around the league ?

 

[AirGut]

The Rangers biggest early season troubles mostly all stem from the defensive zone play which also includes the performance of both goalies . Our PP is off a bit but I think they can fix it with the current personnel at hand . We need HELP on the D and we need it ASAP . Not one of them is playing well back there including Fox who is overworked most nights . The big boys are not pulling their weight like Miller/Schneider/Lindgren/Trouba . I have to give Jones a pass as he is pretty green . The big boys are also playing far too SOFT .

So...is it the D itself or the system Gord Murphy has them playing ? Maybe it might be time to ship him out which sends a shot across the bow of the good ship Gallant . Find a good defense coach and see what transpires . Is Jacques Martin still working ?
I think once our back end gets cleaned up then the perceived problems up front will get righted because of the D improvements . I also think once the D coverage is fixed so will follow our goaltending problems . They best figure it out soon .

What is out there for defensive help and within our budget ? I know we are going to have to subtract at least a million dollar player from the forward units to make it work or more if we go for Chycrun in Phoenix . Are there cheaper alternatives available around the league ?

Gavrikov would be the player for me, although I doubt he could be had for cheap and I can't picture Drury actively making a trade for a Russian defenseman.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Drury was useless to us as a player and proving even more so as a GM.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

I don't know who else they can really move that's worth anything, and they have $14 million of centers in front of him - I want a shakeup trade, but if it's Chytil I'll be pretty furious

 

[NikC]

I don't know who else they can really move that's worth anything, and they have $14 million of centers in front of him - I want a shakeup trade, but if it's Chytil I'll be pretty furious

I like Chytil alot and want him to suceed here... but the dude is FRAGILE, and i fear him getting wiped out one day...

 

[bigdog16]

The poor drafting in the high rounds is difficult to explain, especially when the team has been relatively good in the later rounds. That leads me to believe that the guys who get to make the decisions for the top picks are likely in their positions due to nepotism, and therefore do not know what the f*** they are doing. I think this Org is the worst with it. Constant hires of friends and family, like its the f***ing mob. Worst old boys club in the league. Need to hire people based on merit, not name.

Every single team in the league would have taken Laf and Kakko if they were in the Rangers shoes. And relative to their peers Schneider, Cuylle, Robertson, K'Andre, Lundkvist, and Chytil would all be drafted higher in a re-draft today.

The only misses were Lias, Krav, Lindbom, and Henrikson as far as the first couple rounds go dating back to 2017. The drafting has actually been better than average.

 

[duhmetreE]

Some snippets for Brooksie

• There are 37 defense pairs that have been on the ice for at least 200 minutes at five-on-five. Miller and Jacob Trouba, the tandem that went into this season as the club’s presumptive shutdown pair, ranks 37th and last in goals for/against percentage at 28.57 (8 for/20 against). How’s that?

• There are 187 forwards who have played at least 250 minutes at five-on-five. (Thanks, Natural Stat Trick.) Vincent Trocheck is tied for 163rd with 0.37 goals per 60:00.

Do you want to know with whom he is tied?

That would be Patrick Kane

this team is a mess

adding Patrick Kane would be as Rongos as it gets

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Kane is a real Sather get.

 

[MrAlmost]

Every single team in the league would have taken Laf and Kakko if they were in the Rangers shoes. And relative to their peers Schneider, Cuylle, Robertson, K'Andre, Lundkvist, and Chytil would all be drafted higher in a re-draft today.

The only misses were Lias, Krav, Lindbom, and Henrikson as far as the first couple rounds go dating back to 2017. The drafting has actually been better than average.

I am not really talking about Laf and Kakko. That is more of an indictment on the development ability of this organization, which is run by guys who know guys who are friends with guys who are related to guys. Same problem, different department.

 

[alkurtz]

Like many of you, I have been thinking on the drafting of KK and Laf. It is certainly true that every other team in the league would have made these choices.

Maybe, when we are contemplating high draft selections (when you get to the middle of the first round, I am inclined to gamble on upside), the absolute bedrock criteria should be the player's skating ability. In today's NHL, where speed is dominant, selecting a player without top tier skating ability is asking for trouble. The knock on KK was his skating and that is certainly apparent. He has improved somewhat and his other qualities may still make him a fine NHL player, but he will likely never live up to his #2 overall selection. The knock on Laf was that he was only an average skater. That is also readily apparent although I think it is more his lack of explosiveness rather than his speed is the issue. He too may end up as a productive NHL player, but not one who will the franchise player we envisioned.

Being a fine skater is no guarantee of success, look at Gauthier, but when selecting in the top 10, especially at forward, opting for someone without the ability to skate in today's NHL could be an issue. Poor luck of the draw for us in two successive drafts. Always envious of the Pens who were able to draft Lemieux and Crosby #1. Or the Oilers with McD, or possibly who will be drafting Bedard this year.

I know one thing: the Rangers need to start pushing these guys and giving them a chance to grow. They are stagnating. They need to play higher in the lineup regularly, not jerked around from line to line as they have. And, they need to pull some serious PP time. We need to see what we have with them and currently, we really don't know if they are duds or potential top six players.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Like many of you, I have been thinking on the drafting of KK and Laf. It is certainly true that every other team in the league would have made these choices.

Maybe, when we are contemplating high draft selections (when you get to the middle of the first round, I am inclined to gamble on upside), the absolute bedrock criteria should be the player's skating ability. In today's NHL, where speed is dominant, selecting a player without top tier skating ability is asking for trouble. The knock on KK was his skating and that is certainly apparent. He has improved somewhat and his other qualities may still make him a fine NHL player, but he will likely never live up to his #2 overall selection. The knock on Laf was that he was only an average skater. That is also readily apparent although I think it is more his lack of explosiveness rather than his speed is the issue. He too may end up as a productive NHL player, but not one who will the franchise player we envisioned.

Being a fine skater is no guarantee of success, look at Gauthier, but when selecting in the top 10, especially at forward, opting for someone without the ability to skate in today's NHL could be an issue. Poor luck of the draw for us in two successive drafts. Always envious of the Pens who were able to draft Lemieux and Crosby #1. Or the Oilers with McD, or possibly who will be drafting Bedard this year.

I know one thing: the Rangers need to start pushing these guys and giving them a chance to grow. They are stagnating. They need to play higher in the lineup regularly, not jerked around from line to line as they have. And, they need to pull some serious PP time. We need to see what we have with them and currently, we really don't know if they are duds or potential top six players.

Its about opportunity, the kids aren't getting any. The best the Lafreniere played last year was when he was in the top six and he had an off night and never got there again. Everyone talks about developing players well 90 percent of it is playing, gaining confidence and realizing you belong. You plant him on the 3rd line because you want Jimmy F'in Vesey on the top line he's definitely not getting that. There is absolutely no argument for having Vesey over your 10A on the top line.

 

[Kodiak]

Tuba demoted to bottom pair, rare Gallant W

A Jones-Trouba pair will certainly be exciting to watch if nothing else. I looked at the advanced stats on the defensive pairing a couple of weeks ago to see if Miller was performing better away from Trouba (short answer: yes, he is), and the Jones-Trouba was the worst by far in SCA/60 and HDCA/60. And when I say "by far", I mean they were pretty much doubling up on the next worst pairing. The Jones-Trouba pairing has a HDCA/60 of 29.06. The next worst on the team is Miller-Trouba with 12.57. The Jones-Trouba pairing has a SCA/60 of 52.31, whereas the next worst is Hajek-Schneider with 32.6. For comparison, the Lindgren-Fox pairing is 11.66 HDCA/60 and 26.76 SCA/60.

But surprisingly, the Jones-Trouba pairing is also second best on the team in terms of both SCF/60 and HDCF/60, trailing only the Hajek-Fox pairing in both categories. They are giving up more chances than they create, but they still are creating a lot of chances. Hopefully, with some sheltered minutes, they can be a net positive.

 

[NikC]

Its about opportunity, the kids aren't getting any. The best the Lafreniere played last year was when he was in the top six and he had an off night and never got there again. Everyone talks about developing players well 90 percent of it is playing, gaining confidence and realizing you belong. You plant him on the 3rd line because you want Jimmy F'in Vesey on the top line he's definitely not getting that. There is absolutely no argument for having Vesey over your 10A on the top line.

This organization loses all credibility every time Vessey sees the top 6. If it was done for one game to send a message, that's one thing... the fact that its ongoing? How are you supposed to take this coach/team seriously?

You rebuild to play Vessey and Goodrow in your top 6. Get lost really. Just board up the windows and dissolve the franchise. cut your losses.

 

[NYR Viper]

Lafreniere and Trochek should be a duo that gets played together A LOT. Their playing styles suit eachother in terms of winning puck battles and cycling to create chances at or near the front of the net.

Chytil and Panarin should be a duo. Chytil is not a passer and as a left-handed shot, should be able to find soft areas to use a one-timer regularly off of Panarin's passes coming from the left-side.

The other duo that SHOULD be a thing is Zibanejad and Kaako. Same general premise as Chytil and Panarin but opposite. Kaako as a pass-first possession monster feeding Zibanejad as a right hand shot should be a recipe for success.

That leaves:
Kreider
Vesey
Goodrow
Kravtsov
Blais
Gauthier

Kreider with Zibanejad and Kaako, if he fulfills his role, is fine. Go get the puck, get it to Kaako and Zibanejad and create space.

Kravtsov on the Lafreniere and Trochek line should also be a good move. Those guys should be working the corners and creating chances towards the front of the net so having a more skilled guy who is looking for open space that is created should work.

The last line if Panarin and Chytil. This is the one that, for me, lacks a real ideal fit. The guy, for me, that fits here is actually Gauthier. He doesn't need the puck to succeed and his role should be, forecheck, retrieve pucks and look to get the puck to Panarin. After which, you get to the front of the net.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Once Drury signed Trocheck the writing was on the wall and all the “perma-builders” and “let’s keep the rebuild going but add a smart short term vet as we go to bolster the kids and act as a stop gap until the Othmann, Cuylle, Grubbe, Robertson, etc… are ready” posters might want to step out of the path of the Tsunami that will be coming.
If Drury can figure his way around the cap by using a third team in deals, we possibly could see kids flying out of here. Think Neal Smith circa 1994.
In for a penny in for a £.

 

[pld459666]

Who are all these passers we have?

Panarin, Mika, Trochek, Chytil, Lafreniere, Kakko, vesey, Goodrow

All of these guys think pass first, second, for most, 3rd and only as a last resort shoot

 

[haohmaru]

Panarin, Mika, Trochek, Chytil, Lafreniere, Kakko, vesey, Goodrow

All of these guys think pass first, second, for most, 3rd and only as a last resort shoot

I’ll disagree - not the case with Trocheck and Vesey.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I am not really talking about Laf and Kakko. That is more of an indictment on the development ability of this organization, which is run by guys who know guys who are friends with guys who are related to guys. Same problem, different department.

Everyone constantly harps on development, but if you're excluding laf and kakko, then the rangers don't have a development issue.
Buch developed here, mika developed here. ck developed here.

The rangers actually have developed skilled players.

And the argument is "we have development guys who arent skilled players" well very few org's have skilled players in the development side, and the usual answer is because they typically can't teach the skill stuff, but the other stuff is still needed to round out a player and they can teach that. . Same reason gretzky was a bad coach, he couldnt teach the stuff he expected people to do.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Once Drury signed Trocheck the writing was on the wall and all the “perma-builders” and “let’s keep the rebuild going but add a smart short term vet as we go to bolster the kids and act as a stop gap until the Othmann, Cuylle, Grubbe, Robertson, etc… are ready” posters might want to step out of the path of the Tsunami that will be coming.
If Drury can figure his way around the cap by using a third team in deals, we possibly could see kids flying out of here. Think Neal Smith circa 1994.
In for a penny in for a £.

After the playoff run we had, no one thought the team shouldnt be all in.
We had a young core, we have a goalie on an unbelievable contract coming off a vezina season.
The kids looked poised to take the next step.
The vets (sans panarin) all looked very good in the playoffs until the tampa series.
We had the perfect situation and adding trocheck wasn't considered a bad move, no one disliked his cap hit or his add, it was the term that was the issue.

We loved copp but trocheck is a far better player and the only difference was an extra 2 years of cap hit.

Drury made smart simple moves at the deadline, it was clear he understood the team needs, and filled them.
We lauded the moves he made, and they worked well.
Drury saw the playoff run, and realized we needed more center depth, and added trocheck who plays better than strome.

Im not saying drury is perfect, but assuming he's gonna go neil smith, seems a weird conclusion.

 

[bleedblue94]

Vince is about to be on live with Marek, I think it will be very interesting to hear this based on what is going on and that he is talking to out of town media...

 

[NYR Viper]

Someone earlier in this thread mentioned Puljujaarvi and I will be honest, he's a player who has intrigued me for some time. If Edmonton was willing to retain some salary of his $3m owed this year, I'd consider it. I still think he would fit well on the RW of Panarin-Chytil as a defensively responsible winger.

I still see him developing in to another Lehkonen shortly.

Something like:

Carpenter for Puljujaarvi @ $1.5m