Speculation: Roster Building Thread II (2022-23): The Puck is Prepared to be Mounted

[McRanger92]

The only 'inside baseball' can be that the cap is actually going up $4M

That could look something like this...

Othmann + 1st for Meier

I still dont see it happening.,

This isnt an endorsement of this type of move, but if you're Drury who would you rather have over the next 4-5 years? Timo Meier or Filip Chytil and Barclay Goodrow? 3.64 +4.5 = 8.14. They could trade for Meier now with futures, sign him to an 8x8 deal and move out Goody (buyout) and Chytil (you'd get a haul for him). On the ice you'd probably want Meier over both guys, but where is Chytil in 4 years? He might be as good as Meier. He also might peak as an offensive 3C. Im sure these are questions the NYR are asking themselves.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

This isnt an endorsement of this type of move, but if you're Drury who would you rather have over the next 4-5 years? Timo Meier or Filip Chytil and Barclay Goodrow? 3.64 +4.5 = 8.14. They could trade for Meier now with futures, sign him to an 8x8 deal and move out Goody (buyout) and Chytil (you'd get a haul for him). One the ice you'd probably want Meier over both guys, but where is Chytil in 4 years? He might be as good as Meier. He also might peak as an offensive 3C. Im sure these are questions the NYR are asking themselves.

If you can, I think the plan would be to Keep Chytil and Meier and try to get 2 runs with Kreider here as well.

Kreider gets moved once his NMC turns into a NTC.

Now how you open up that other space? I've got no f***ing idea.

 

[SA16]

This is one of those posts that wont age well.

All it takes is a bad stretch of games. An early playoff exit. Maybe some bad press. I demotion off a Power Play etc. Players leave teams. Sometimes its a fresh stat thing. I don't think he finishes his career as a NY Ranger. After the cap increases, there will be options on where they can move him.

Of all of the big contracts on this team, I think it's him that is one of the first to go elsewhere.

There has not been a single player in the cap era to be dealt with an AAV of 9M+ who didn't demand a trade (Eichel) or have no clauses active in his deal (Subban), I highly doubt he gets dealt and it's by far the least likely of any scenario.

 

[McRanger92]

If you can, I think the plan would be to Keep Chytil and Meier and try to get 2 runs with Kreider here as well.

Kreider gets moved once his NMC turns into a NTC.

Now how you open up that other space? I've got no f***ing idea.

A smart team would use LTIR on Trouba/Panarin/Kreider to kick the can down the road to next year's deadline. That would help you fit Chytil long term. They could also squeeze their RFAs now with the understanding that they will get big raises when the Cap jumps and the veterans are able to be moved. It would be a real threading of the needle but is it any more complicated than what Tampa, Colorado or Chicago have done over the years to give themselves a leg up?

 

[NYR Viper]

am I the only one that wants to just go the way of 'old school' rentals.

Add Tank
Add Gavrikov ( not if he costs a 1st )
Add Motte

call it a TDL.

Gavrikov is the perfect add but what are teams going to pay? If we're giving up a 1st, I'm adding and going for Chychrun instead.

My issue with this is that it likely costs Cuylle, NYR 1st + NYR 2nd. It's just flat out not worth it.

This isnt an endorsement of this type of move, but if you're Drury who would you rather have over the next 4-5 years? Timo Meier or Filip Chytil and Barclay Goodrow? 3.64 +4.5 = 8.14. They could trade for Meier now with futures, sign him to an 8x8 deal and move out Goody (buyout) and Chytil (you'd get a haul for him). One the ice you'd probably want Meier over both guys, but where is Chytil in 4 years? He might be as good as Meier. He also might peak as an offensive 3C. Im sure these are questions the NYR are asking themselves.

To be fair, Chytil is more than a 3C right now.

I keep coming back to this:

Is Meier a good player? Absolutely. Is he going to be that much of an upgrade to justify paying a 1st + top prospect + 2nd tier prospect for and giving him a 7-8 year deal worth $8m per season?

The amount of cap gymnastics that would be required to fit him in is almost on the level of absurd.

To top all of that off, look forward to the off-season. What players are going to be available and what teams are going to have cap space? What players are getting bought out or handed away for almost nothing?

People bring up Pat Kane. He's a UFA who will be looking for a spot to compete again. He's made his money and he is likely going to be coming back from a major surgery.

Here are some others who will probably be taking lower cap hit contracts on short term deals as veterans looking to win:
Toews
JVR
Kane (mentioned above)
Tarasenko
Pacioretty
Monahan
Larkin
Dumba
J Staal
Zucker
Nyquist
Horvat
Bertuzzi
Killorn
Compher
Domi
Barbashev
Eller
Orlov
Jensen


Now if we look at non-qualified RFA's or potential buyout candidates or guys teams are looking to unload
Garland
Puljujaarvi
Boeser
T Myers
OEL
Greenway
Debrincat
Meier



What I am trying to convey is that in a year when there will be veteran, proven players needing to take less on shorter term deals because of the cap crunch, going out to spend prime assets and then do twirls to fit his $8m contract in seems like a bad move. Especially if they could conceivably open up a bit of space and perhaps sign a Patrick Kane or JVR to a more reasonable deal with shorter term as UFA's and keep those assets.

 

[duhmetreE]

This isnt an endorsement of this type of move, but if you're Drury who would you rather have over the next 4-5 years? Timo Meier or Filip Chytil and Barclay Goodrow? 3.64 +4.5 = 8.14. They could trade for Meier now with futures, sign him to an 8x8 deal and move out Goody (buyout) and Chytil (you'd get a haul for him). One the ice you'd probably want Meier over both guys, but where is Chytil in 4 years? He might be as good as Meier. He also might peak as an offensive 3C. Im sure these are questions the NYR are asking themselves.

I keep the top9 centers intact.

That's plays a large part in winning IMO. We have a plethora of young cheap and talented wingers. Hoping that a few grow into good-great players.

 

[SA16]

A smart team would use LTIR on Trouba/Panarin/Kreider to kick the can down the road to next year's deadline. That would help you fit Chytil long term. They could also squeeze their RFAs now with the understanding that they will get big raises when the Cap jumps and the veterans are able to be moved. It would be a real threading of the needle but is it any more complicated than what Tampa, Colorado or Chicago have done over the years to give themselves a leg up?

It would also get you a huge fine and docked multiple draft picks when the league realizes it's obviously not a real injury and they are just circumventing the cap. Just because it's happened before doesn't mean they'll let it happen again. Not to mention the Kucherov injury was real and he had surgery. Which Ranger player is going to volunteer to have a major surgery he doesn't need?

 

[GAGLine]

A smart team would use LTIR on Trouba/Panarin/Kreider to kick the can down the road to next year's deadline. That would help you fit Chytil long term. They could also squeeze their RFAs now with the understanding that they will get big raises when the Cap jumps and the veterans are able to be moved. It would be a real threading of the needle but is it any more complicated than what Tampa, Colorado or Chicago have done over the years to give themselves a leg up?

LTIR isn't an option unless someone actually gets hurt and is expected to miss the entire season.

 

[McRanger92]

My issue with this is that it likely costs Cuylle, NYR 1st + NYR 2nd. It's just flat out not worth it.



To be fair, Chytil is more than a 3C right now.

I keep coming back to this:

Is Meier a good player? Absolutely. Is he going to be that much of an upgrade to justify paying a 1st + top prospect + 2nd tier prospect for and giving him a 7-8 year deal worth $8m per season?

The amount of cap gymnastics that would be required to fit him in is almost on the level of absurd.

To top all of that off, look forward to the off-season. What players are going to be available and what teams are going to have cap space? What players are getting bought out or handed away for almost nothing?

People bring up Pat Kane. He's a UFA who will be looking for a spot to compete again. He's made his money and he is likely going to be coming back from a major surgery.

Here are some others who will probably be taking lower cap hit contracts on short term deals as veterans looking to win:
Toews
JVR
Kane (mentioned above)
Tarasenko
Pacioretty
Monahan
Larkin
Dumba
J Staal
Zucker
Nyquist
Horvat
Bertuzzi
Killorn
Compher
Domi
Barbashev
Eller
Orlov
Jensen


Now if we look at non-qualified RFA's or potential buyout candidates or guys teams are looking to unload
Garland
Puljujaarvi
Boeser
T Myers
OEL
Greenway
Debrincat
Meier



What I am trying to convey is that in a year when there will be veteran, proven players needing to take less on shorter term deals because of the cap crunch, going out to spend prime assets and then do twirls to fit his $8m contract in seems like a bad move. Especially if they could conceivably open up a bit of space and perhaps sign a Patrick Kane or JVR to a more reasonable deal with shorter term as UFA's and keep those assets.

I dont disagree. The Chyil/Goodrow -> Meier hypothetical was more a thought exercise to see how it might work if they went down that road. The thing that makes Meier enticing is that he fits the bill of what the Rangers need. A top line scorer in his prime with size who matches the timeline we have with Fox. If this was the 2024 deadline and Kreider/Trouba had NTCs instead of NMCs, it would be an absolute no brainer to go hard to get him.

 

[duhmetreE]

It would also get you a huge fine and docked multiple draft picks when the league realizes it's obviously not a real injury and they are just circumventing the cap. Just because it's happened before doesn't mean they'll let it happen again. Not to mention the Kucherov injury was real and he had surgery. Which Ranger player is going to volunteer to have a major surgery he doesn't need?

@Uninstaaled was headed down to Miami with a lead pipe

 

[zlev]

Meier will cost Othmann, Hajek and a 1st.

We can't afford to pay him unless there's a route to moving Panarin/Trouba.

San Jose could just keep him. I do not see the rush in trading him

if that is all it would take they have to do it. even just for a rental. no more half assing it at the deadline, it's time to go all-in. this is our window now, we could beat anyone in the playoffs with Meier added to this team.

 

[duhmetreE]

Once again...

Do we think we're better with Chychrun or Meier all things considered?

I think we'd get more value with Chychrun tbh... specially with how important defensemen are in our 'system'.

 

[McRanger92]

It would also get you a huge fine and docked multiple draft picks when the league realizes it's obviously not a real injury and they are just circumventing the cap. Just because it's happened before doesn't mean they'll let it happen again. Not to mention the Kucherov injury was real and he had surgery. Which Ranger player is going to volunteer to have a major surgery he doesn't need?

Trouba has had a hand injury he's been playing through all season. Kreider had major wrist surgery this offseason. Panarin missed games last year with a bad back. No one else has been fined or docked draft picks for stuff like this, but now when the Rangers do it that's what were worried about? I dont buy it.

 

[NYR Viper]

Can JVR play RW?

 

[McRanger92]

Once again...

Do we think we're better with Chychrun or Meier all things considered?

I think we'd get more value with Chychrun tbh... specially with how important defensemen are in our 'system.

Meier because we have no one who can score at even strength

 

[duhmetreE]

Meier because we have no one who can score at even strength

the assumption is that we'd score at even strength

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

This isnt an endorsement of this type of move, but if you're Drury who would you rather have over the next 4-5 years? Timo Meier or Filip Chytil and Barclay Goodrow? 3.64 +4.5 = 8.14. They could trade for Meier now with futures, sign him to an 8x8 deal and move out Goody (buyout) and Chytil (you'd get a haul for him). One the ice you'd probably want Meier over both guys, but where is Chytil in 4 years? He might be as good as Meier. He also might peak as an offensive 3C. Im sure these are questions the NYR are asking themselves.

What is foolish is Drury specifically traded for and then overpaid Goodrow to address the toughness and experience factor, namely for playoff hockey.

If he is moved to bring Meier for this playoff run and beyond, you are basically reaping what you've sewn.

Not to mention letting Chytil go which is breaching a different subject all together. Not saying your idea is crazy by any means, because its the type of deal that would have to happen to bring in Meier. But thats the point isnt it

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers are money in and money out. Trouba at $8M or Kreider at $6.5M would need to go somewhere. Good luck with that one.

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[GoAwayPanarin]

Once again...

Do we think we're better with Chychrun or Meier all things considered?

I think we'd get more value with Chychrun tbh... specially with how important defensemen are in our 'system'.

Meier.

Chychrun is good and could make for a monster pairing with Fox, but I don't think our defense needs the tweak that our forwards do.

Kreider-Tro-Meier can effectively be deployed as a matchup unit that actually scores.

 

[duhmetreE]

Meier.

Chychrun is good and could make for a monster pairing with Fox, but I don't think our defense needs the tweak that our forwards do.

Kreider-Tro-Meier can effectively be deployed as a matchup unit that actually scores.

but it's Chychrun+

Meier would take up more resources. Sure, in a vacuum he's better.. For arguments sake, lets say the acquistion cost is the same... Chychrun is a fraction of the cap cost, especially if it's @ 50%. That allows us to keep/add more talent.

Maybe I'm jaded.... I see Meier coming here and degenerating... Sit on the boards and no longer shoot 1st...

what I do see though, is when Fox and KAM are going, the team is going. Add more fuel to that fire.

 

[SA16]

Trouba has had a hand injury he's been playing through all season. Kreider had major wrist surgery this offseason. Panarin missed games last year with a bad back. No one else has been fined or docked draft picks for stuff like this, but now when the Rangers do it that's what were worried about? I dont buy it.

Kreider is fine now. Panarin missed 7 games last year. Back surgery is major and he is not going to just get that done if he doesn't seriously need it. What kind of hand injury results in someone missing 6-8 months?

 

[zlev]

in my 30 years of following this team there has never been a more no-brainer trade deadline target than Timo Meier. not only would we get him but we'd also keep him away from our biggest rivals. if he goes to NJ or Carolina we might as well just tank for Bedard starting next week.

 

[McRanger92]

What is foolish is Drury specifically traded for and then overpaid Goodrow to address the toughness and experience factor, namely for playoff hockey.

If he is moved to bring Meier for this playoff run and beyond, you are basically reaping what you've sewn.

Not to mention letting Chytil go which is breaching a different subject all together. Not saying your idea is crazy by any means, because its the type of deal that would have to happen to bring in Meier. But thats the point isnt it

After 2 potential deep runs, the need for Goodrow's toughness and experience might be lessened. Especially now that you have vets like Trocheck and Vesey to take on his PK and faceoff responsibilities. And I would personally do everything within my power to retain Chytil AND Meier.

My main point on this is that Meier can be a huge difference maker for this Ranger team starting Monday when they return, thats got immense value to a team that Drury knows is losing important an important piece(s) at minimum once this season ends. In the summer, theres enough uncertainty between what the cap will look like, what the situation is with out RFAs, what the situation is with our NMC veterans. It makes sense to me why Drury would be willing to trade accumulated assets for a potential star player in an area of need, and figure out the long term future later. If we fizzle out in the spring, they will probably want to shake things up anyway. A trade for Meier sends a clear message to the fanbase, coaches, & players that the goal is to win and win now. As it should be, the 5 year anniversary of the Letter is this month.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

in my 30 years of following this team there has never been a more no-brainer trade deadline target than Timo Meier. not only would we get him but we'd also keep him away from our biggest rivals. if he goes to NJ or Carolina we might as well just tank for Bedard starting next week.

How is it a no-brainer when we don't have the cap room for him?

 

[zlev]

How is it a no-brainer when we don't have the cap room for him?

won't we have like 6.5mil in room by the deadline? he only makes 6M this year and SJ could just retain some anyway.