Speculation: Roster Building Thread II (2022-23): The Puck is Prepared to be Mounted

[McRanger92]

It's pretty obvious that I do not share the same level of optimism as some here regarding Panarin and Mika leading this team.

I do hope I am wrong, I don't think I am but I do hope I am.

Weve been discussing getting out of Panarin's contract here for weeks lol. The two are not in the same category.

 

[NYR94]

The best almost always win in the NHL though.

If that story from last year is accurate they at least have more creative ways of cheating in chess

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Quick check of President trophy winners who win the cup......oooof embarrassing.

Best player in the world McDavid hasn't sniffed a cup..

Look at all the cup winners, they’re all top teams even if they didn’t win the presidents the year they won the cup. Not many underdogs lifting cups in NHL history. Avs hands down best team in the league, won the cup. Lightning the previous couple of years. Maybe the Blues are the only recent exception.

 

[pld459666]

Weve been discussing getting out of Panarin's contract here for weeks lol. The two are not in the same category.

They are both deficient 5v5 and neither player drives the middle

One is worse than the other, but both are problematic. IMHO

 

[duhmetreE]

It's pretty obvious that I do not share the same level of optimism as some here regarding Panarin and Mika leading this team.

I do hope I am wrong, I don't think I am but I do hope I am.

My problem with Mika is, that he needs to be our goal scorer... and he defers too much.

If he and Panarin could just hit some corners like they did in 2019, a lot changes. Panarin is a worse offender in this part. The amount he's missed the net or hesitated to shoot is astounding

 

[Raspewtin]

Ok. And 0 points in the last three games against Tampa.

I will give him credit for stepping up in games 6&7 against Pitt and game 7 against Carolina where accumulated 10 of the 24 points.

I'm not saying the Mika is not a good player, just not someone I'd look to lead my team to a cup

Are we back to picking what points matter more?

I think you have a point about Panarin but Zibanejad even if he's not scoring is really, really strong defensively and it wasnt his fault Vatrano was overmatched and overplayed and Kreider tripled his ambien dose that run.

He's probably not a top 10 center in the league but he's certainly not a handicap for this team.

 

[McRanger92]

Look at all the cup winners, they’re all top teams even if they didn’t win the presidents the year they won the cup. Not many underdogs lifting cups in NHL history. Avs hands down best team in the league, won the cup. Lightning the previous couple of years. Maybe the Blues are the only recent exception.

Are we an underdog? I know half (more?) the fanbase thinks we suck but there is 1 team in the East you can say with certainty is better than us.

 

[Fitzy]

Are we an underdog? I know half (more?) the fanbase thinks we suck but there is 1 team in the East you can say with certainty is better than us.

That's where I'm at and why my philosophy for the regular season is 'avoid facing Boston in the playoffs as long as possible'

I wouldn't bet against us against any other team. Carolina might be 50-50 for me.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

That's where I'm at and why my philosophy for the regular season is 'avoid facing Boston in the playoffs as long as possible'

I wouldn't bet against us against any other team. Carolina might be 50-50 for me.

I don’t think we can beat Tampa in the playoffs because we can’t beat a team that mucks like they do. I think the Devils would beat us too. I think we can beat the Hurricanes and Leafs tho

 

[McRanger92]

That's where I'm at and why my philosophy for the regular season is 'avoid facing Boston in the playoffs as long as possible'

I wouldn't bet against us against any other team. Carolina might be 50-50 for me.

Carolina doesn't have the core of elite talent to carry them in the playoffs when things get stale like other Metro teams. Their goaltending is adequate at best. They lose the style of play advantage in the playoffs because everyone is going balls to the wall in a 7 game series, not just them.

 

[McRanger92]

I don’t think we can beat Tampa in the playoffs because we can’t beat a team that mucks like they do. I think the Devils would beat us too. I think we can beat the Hurricanes and Leafs tho

Tampa doesn't have the depth up front or on D that they used to. No McDonagh or Palat is going to be a problem for them, and I think Toronto bounces them early. As for the the Devils can certainly beat us, because playoff series against rivals are always really a coin flip, but nothing on their team really worries me other than Little Jackie. He can win it by himself. All is fair in the NHL playoffs so I hope Trocheck and Goodrow are ready to agitate and get physical with him.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Tampa doesn't have the depth up front or on D that they used to. No McDonagh or Palat is going to be a problem for them, and I think Toronto bounces them early. As for the the Devils can certainly beat us, because playoff series against rivals are always really a coin flip, but nothing on their team really worries me other than Little Jackie. He can win it by himself. All is fair in the NHL playoffs so I hope Trocheck and Goodrow are ready to agitate and get physical with him.

The devils are tiny though. They’re absolutely fast, but the question is can they handle a playoff series.

 

[irishlaxburger2]

Are we an underdog? I know half (more?) the fanbase thinks we suck but there is 1 team in the East you can say with certainty is better than us.

I think we're very close to where we were last year. An above average playoff team that likely goes 7 games with all other playoff teams minus the elite level. But winning 4 coin flips in a row isn't a high probability way to win a Cup, especially if we're also slated to get blown out by the elite (which I think we are...we would've gotten blown out by the Avs last year and probably Boston this year).

The negative - at least from my end - doesn't come from thinking we suck. It's coming from the frustration of being this above average team who seemingly can't get into elite territory. Being hopelessly and perpetually in above-average land can feel like purgatory.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I think we're very close to where we were last year. An above average playoff team that likely goes 7 games with all other playoff teams minus the elite level. But winning 4 coin flips in a row isn't a high probability way to win a Cup, especially if we're also slated to get blown out by the elite (which I think we are...we would've gotten blown out by the Avs last year and probably Boston this year).

The negative - at least from my end - doesn't come from thinking we suck. It's coming from the frustration of being this above average team who seemingly can't get into elite territory. Being hopelessly and perpetually in above-average land can feel like purgatory.

I feel like if we suddenly start playing to where we should be, we go from four coin flips to having the deepest playoff forward roster in the league right now.

 

[McRanger92]

I think we're very close to where we were last year. An above average playoff team that likely goes 7 games with all other playoff teams minus the elite level. But winning 4 coin flips in a row isn't a high probability way to win a Cup, especially if we're also slated to get blown out by the elite (which I think we are...we would've gotten blown out by the Avs last year and probably Boston this year).

The negative - at least from my end - doesn't come from thinking we suck. It's coming from the frustration of being this above average team who seemingly can't get into elite territory. Being hopelessly and perpetually in above-average land can feel like purgatory.

Patience. Even if we don't win it this year, we will only have better odds when the young core (Fox, Miller, Chytil, Schneider, Lafreniere, Kakko) get into their mid-20s. The experience gained is invaluable, and we are still such a young team. Not to mention Othmann, Cuylle, Berard, Sykora types coming in to fortify the bottom 6 on ELCs. A slight reset involving Igor/Panarin/Trouba contracts after the 24-25 season but as long as we have our top young players locked in we are in excellent shape for the foreseeable future.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Kravtsov has not shown a ton of potential in the NHL and isn't considered a top prospect anymore in any public list I've seen. He also will not be on an ELC in 6 months. There are extremely valid roster and salary cap reasons to deal him sooner than later.

I disagree with this. I think what he has shown is "potential," meaning it hasn't translated yet. The literal meaning of the word is that you have the capacity for something or develop into something in the future. He has shown some dangles, a little bit of grit, some excellent back checking. He has shown enough for me to think there's more that will come as he grows into his frame and keeps learning the NHL game. I don't care about public prospect lists as much as some of you - he's a 22 year old with like 50 NHL games under his belt. He's going to get better and he has an elite level skill set that is untapped.

 

[RangerBoy]

Vince sees the Rangers spreading out their cap space on two or three players. RW. LD. Bottom six forward with speed.

 

[McRanger92]

I disagree with this. I think what he has shown is "potential," meaning it hasn't translated yet. The literal meaning of the word is that you have the capacity for something or develop into something in the future. He has shown some dangles, a little bit of grit, some excellent back checking. He has shown enough for me to think there's more that will come as he grows into his frame and keeps learning the NHL game. I don't care about public prospect lists as much as some of you - he's a 22 year old with like 50 NHL games under his belt. He's going to get better and he has an elite level skill set that is untapped.

I think you're seeing what you want to see with Krav. The glass half empty view is what many have been saying. He's an older prospect who never pops off the screen and wasted key physical development years ice dancing in the KHL, when he couldve been playing against men getting NHL level conditioning like his peers in the organization. He probably will be an effective player in the future, but his future no longer correlates with the Rangers present. It could've if he wasn't "too good" for the AHL, but you can'y put the genie back in the bottle. We all should have known this was a potential outcome.

Vince sees the Rangers spreading out their cap space on two or three players. RW. LD. Bottom six forward with speed.

The top guys are fun to talk about, but Drury had success with spreading the wealth last year. No reason to not go back to the well again this year and keep the 2 1sts.

 

[mas0764]

We did pretty well with them last year.

Not to mention the impact Lekhonen had on Colorado. They don’t win without him.

Yeah, and you might have missed this, but I said a first for a young top 6 player who fits your core is the exception, when you can bring that guy back as a long term piece.

The Avs re-signed Lehkonen and he's averaging 0.79 ppg for them.

The pieces we did well with were 2nds, 3rds, and 4ths, and that's ok because 2nds, 3rds and 4ths are so rarely anything, it doesn't matter if it doesn't work out (which, we didn't win the Cup, therefore it didn't work out).

But you can't be giving up firsts, especially not in back to back years, when your team already isn't good enough, to try to be chasing contenders. It just doesn't work out almost always, and there's history to back that up.

 

[RangerBoy]

Maybe the Rangers will able to claim Lundkvist on waivers next October.

 

[mas0764]

They do work, you just dont like them. Would you rather trade both firsts for non-rentals with retention? Because Tampa Bay did that with decent success, id say. You cant have it both ways if you want to win.

I would trade a first for a 24 year old who could stay here long term.

The problem is that we don't have the cap room to seek out a player like that who we can re-sign.

So we are backed into a corner where we actually have to OVERPAY in assets just to get the same value, all so we can have a player for a likely doomed Cup run for 8 weeks.

It's just bad value all around.

Win your value transactions consistently and you'll be a favorite who doesn't need to piss away assets to chase the leaders. THAT'S how you win, not by renting.

But that means - gulp - maybe you have to be ok with not winning in the first year or two of an open window.

 

[Mugless]

 

[mas0764]

I wouldn't move Kravtsov just yet unless the return is undeniable. Too much untapped potential.

And even if not, we are short middle six forwards. He is one. And he's cheap.

The coach needs to stop demoting him.

It's not this at all - it's a simple math. Typically you'd probably have 16-20 buyers at TDL while in the end there's only 1 SC winner. Saying that buying at TDL is a wasted effort and should not have taken place if your team ultimately doesn't win - which is a fate for all but one team - is not proper mindset as it's really not that much different from building your team through FA signing and trades in offseason.

The fact that everyone is scrambling to overpay is exactly why a smart team should not.

When everyone is going left, you go right.

And yes, 19 of the 20 buyers at the deadline will fail.

It's a horrific idea. And the NHL is the only league where it's ingrained culture. But its terrible math and terrible value almost universally.

 

[mas0764]

I dont know why I was expecting a better skater. He hustles but he's not flying around the ice like I thought he would.

He has potential if/when he thickens up. He's ridiculously unprepared/undersized for NHL hockey. Maybe we'd see some skill if he was getting PP time.

I'm indifferent with keeping him and/or trading him. The problem still remains, we have 8 or so top6 players.... the overflow is then being asked to do 3rd line/bottom6 things. It doesn't work and kills the balance.

I'm ok with trading him.... for a young player in return.

Not to throw him down the garbage shoot that is renting.

If you want to watch something where the best almost always wins have you considered Chess instead of the NHL?

The best almost always wins in the NHL.

Quick check of President trophy winners who win the cup......oooof embarrassing.

Best player in the world McDavid hasn't sniffed a cup..

The President's trophy isn't determinative of who the best team is.

 

[mas0764]

Are we an underdog? I know half (more?) the fanbase thinks we suck but there is 1 team in the East you can say with certainty is better than us.

We are an underdog, yes.

And if you ask on a board that isn't the Rangers board the results would be overwhelming to that effect.

Patience. Even if we don't win it this year, we will only have better odds when the young core (Fox, Miller, Chytil, Schneider, Lafreniere, Kakko) get into their mid-20s.

So..... let's fortify that group because yes, the odds just get better from here.