Speculation: Roster Building Thread II (2022-23): The Puck is Prepared to be Mounted

[JohnC]

Panarin at 11.5 and Kreider at 6.5 was looking like extremely good value for your top 2 LWs before the Covid shutdown.

The problem is that a lot of factors post-shutdown completely flipped the calculus on it’s head.

 

[Leonardo87]

If Lafreniere was on pace for 80 points this season and Kreider was just dominating the third line we'd love him. He'd still be expensive but we'd be looking to cut fat elsewhere. It's not the same situation as Trouba who is just bad right now.

Yeah but Kreider is earning that contract. Imo. 38 goal pace, 60 point pace, killing penalties , and etc. 6.5 million dollars seems very reasonable for what he brings.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

The lingering frustration with Kreider is due to the fact that he was a 50 point player for like his entire career, when not turning into an 80 point player may have cost us a Cup, said 50 point player was really a plus second liner or low-end first liner and thus not the ideal for a team desperately seeking star forwards for forever, he was reportedly tradeable for a massive haul and wasn't moved, and now he sits there eating up PP time while our first and second overall picks languish and it's a constant reminder of his not good enough-ishness.

If Lafreniere was on pace for 80 points this season and Kreider was just dominating the third line we'd love him. He'd still be expensive but we'd be looking to cut fat elsewhere. It's not the same situation as Trouba who is just bad right now.

Led the team in goals last season (52)
Led the team in playoff goals last season (10)
Tied for the team lead in goals this season (19)
The best net front guy in the league, deflection wizard, effective penalty killer, scores shorthanded goals and you're mad at that because Laff isn't pacing for 80 points this season and is languishing? This seems more like a you problem, or Laff problem, than a Kreider problem.

 

[mas0764]

Led the team in goals last season (52)
Led the team in playoff goals last season (10)
Tied for the team lead in goals this season (19)
The best net front guy in the league, deflection wizard, effective penalty killer, scores shorthanded goals and you're mad at that because Laff isn't pacing for 80 points this season and is languishing? This seems more like a you problem, or Laff problem, than a Kreider problem.

Kreider is a good complimentary player but he's not driving offense. It's not a me problem, it's a him problem, he can lead the league in goals and still not be as impactful as MacKinnon.

But it's not even a problem, it's just who he is as a player.

And like I said, the frustration with it all comes from the fact that yes, it's a Laf/Kakko problem. If those guys were turning into play-dominating stars that we thought they were gonna be, Kreider is the Johan Franzen on a very good team and we all love him. But he's not Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

 

[haohmaru]

Lafreniere needs take a page from Kakko and start hanging on to the puck/puck possession instead of handgrenading it. There area plenty of slower players that are successful in the NHL - Stone, Draisatl, hell even Thompson. Laf needs get stronger and get tougher between the ears to take a step. He's still a young man and there's still hope.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Kreider is a good complimentary player but he's not driving offense. It's not a me problem, it's a him problem, he can lead the league in goals and still not be as impactful as MacKinnon.

But it's not even a problem, it's just who he is as a player.

And like I said, the frustration with it all comes from the fact that yes, it's a Laf/Kakko problem. If those guys were turning into play-dominating stars that we thought they were gonna be, Kreider is the Johan Franzen on a very good team and we all love him. But he's not Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

Lol, I can't anymore. You've got your head so far up Laff and Kakko's ass I don't even know how you watch games.

But ok. You're right. Trade him. Trade Panarin. Trade Goodrow and Trocheck. Trade Lindgren and Trouba. Give all the ice to Laff, Kakko, Otthman, Jones, and Robertson and see how far you get.

 

[zlev]

Buch and Skjei to keep Kreider and sign a guy like Trocheck I would say is mismanagement. Or Troubas contract forcing us to let Lundkvist go. All mistakes that if we continue will send us to the dark ages once this older core doesn’t win their 1 cup.

Skjei f***ing blows

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

I just feel its like Rick Nash, like Brad Richards, Keith Yandle, like Panarin, all signs point to it happening, had the same feeling with all those guys too.


I dont think anyone was thinking we got MacKinnon when we drafted Lafreniere did we? Like MacKinnon is a top 5 forward in the league, Huberdeau was a more likely comparison.

Been watching the Bruins closely the last 20 or so games. Core players play like they are annoyed to be stopped. Team despises losing, doesn't play down to lesser teams, refuses to be outworked, and backs each other up 1000%.

Zib, Bread, and Kreider are NO Bergeron, Marchand and Pasternak.

Kreider is a good complimentary player but he's not driving offense. It's not a me problem, it's a him problem, he can lead the league in goals and still not be as impactful as MacKinnon.

But it's not even a problem, it's just who he is as a player.

And like I said, the frustration with it all comes from the fact that yes, it's a Laf/Kakko problem. If those guys were turning into play-dominating stars that we thought they were gonna be, Kreider is the Johan Franzen on a very good team and we all love him. But he's not Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

damn kid - you're still for some reason putting laffy in the same sentence as mackinnon. you ok?

sorry if the organization is disappointing you. sorry there aren't driving forces like mackinnon to your liking on the team.

nobody is pointing a gun to your head to keep following the team. you cold start rooting for the avalanche. but then that would also disappoint you there too as the 2nd main driver kadri is no longer there.

you could start rooting for the oilers - 2 elite drivers there. shit they may actually win the cup too when evander kane heals up.

 

[mas0764]

Lol, I can't anymore. You've got your head so far up Laff and Kakko's ass I don't even know how you watch games.

I'm agreeing on some of what you said so I'm not sure why you are so riled up.

But ok. You're right. Trade him. Trade Panarin. Trade Goodrow and Trocheck. Trade Lindgren and Trouba. Give all the ice to Laff, Kakko, Otthman, Jones, and Robertson and see how far you get.

I definitely would have traded him in the past. He'd be on my list right now, but not the first one I'm looking to move.

And I never said trade ALL those players, but some? Yes.

damn kid - you're still for some reason putting laffy in the same sentence as mackinnon. you ok?

As a prospect? Yes, he was in that tier. Now? Of course I never said he's comparable to MacKinnon right now.

sorry if the organization is disappointing you. sorry there aren't driving forces like mackinnon to your liking on the team.

It's too bad for everyone, not just me.

nobody is pointing a gun to your head to keep following the team. you cold start rooting for the avalanche. but then that would also disappoint you there too as the 2nd main driver kadri is no longer there.

you could start rooting for the oilers - 2 elite drivers there. shit they may actually win the cup too when evander kane heals up.

So, funny thing, I am a fan of the team in my own way and I'm going to advocate for what I think is best for them. Not planning to go anywhere.

Not even sure what you are referring to because I was merely jumping in on another debate here of Kreider v. Buch, I'm simply explaining why there is a lot of frustration with Kreider in general.

 

[kovazub94]

I'm very surprised the NHLPA didn't intervene on Krejci getting $1m.

Why? You think there's another payment "under the table"?

 

[Daves a mess]

damn kid - you're still for some reason putting laffy in the same sentence as mackinnon. you ok?

sorry if the organization is disappointing you. sorry there aren't driving forces like mackinnon to your liking on the team.

nobody is pointing a gun to your head to keep following the team. you cold start rooting for the avalanche. but then that would also disappoint you there too as the 2nd main driver kadri is no longer there.

you could start rooting for the oilers - 2 elite drivers there. shit they may actually win the cup too when evander kane heals up.

Lol. Wtf are you talking about ?
You quoting the right post?

 

[bobbop]

2000-01 was Sather's first year running the Rangers. I seem to recall Sather trying to get both Tkachuk and Khabibulin in the same trade but it was earlier that season. The Coyotes were having ownership issues. The Rangers would have paid most of the money left on Richter and Fleury. Theo was the player I didn’t remember. Then Khabibulin was traded to TB near the deadline in 2001 and Tkachuk went to STL that same deadline. Sather wanted to make a big trade for just Tkachuk but he was traded to the Blues after the Blues tried to acquire Lindros. The Blues doctors looked at the medical records and told the Blues management to forget about Lindros. The Rangers ended up with Lindros after not getting Jagr that summer.

The deal was agreed to with Arizona in March 2001. Khabibulin, Tkachuk and Travis Green for Richter, Mike York, Theo Fleury and one other. For some reason, the Coyotes really wanted Mike York. Fleury had trade protection and when Gretzky called him to get him to waive, that’s when he found out Fleury was going to the NH L assistance program. Gretzky was stunned. Travis Green had already been told and was headed to the airport. Source: Doug Moss.

 

[Alluckks]

Why? You think there's another payment "under the table"?

Because it directly effects compensation for other players, especially veterans. The NHLPA has a vested interest in all players getting their fair due in contracts because all those numbers effect negotiations for other players.

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

Lol. Wtf are you talking about ?
You quoting the right post?

my wrong doing dude. i messed up somewhere. read the stuff above and then it might make some sense.

 

[kovazub94]

Also you all can be as cynical as you want about this team but with the exception of Boston, I don't think there is another team in the league that doesn't also have a myriad of flaws and problems.

There isn't a team in our division I don't think NYR would have at least a 50-50 shot of beating in a 7 game series. Even Carolina has a major question mark in goal.

And if anyone proclaimed in the offseason that Bruins would be where they are at the moment - he would've get laughed out of town, by Bruins fans in the first place.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Domi please

 

[JohnC]

Lafreniere needs take a page from Kakko and start hanging on to the puck/puck possession instead of handgrenading it. There area plenty of slower players that are successful in the NHL - Stone, Draisatl, hell even Thompson. Laf needs get stronger and get tougher between the ears to take a step. He's still a young man and there's still hope.

It’s clearly a confidence thing at this point. He very obviously doesn’t want the puck on his stick for any extended periods of time.

Kakko went through the same thing and worked past it, Laf will too.

 

[kovazub94]

Because it directly effects compensation for other players, especially veterans. The NHLPA has a vested interest in all players getting their fair due in contracts because all those numbers effect negotiations for other players.

We're talking about a contract for mid-30s player who missed a year of playing in the NHL. Noone could reasonably guess how Krejci would do without hindsight.

 

[GAGLine]

Because it directly effects compensation for other players, especially veterans. The NHLPA has a vested interest in all players getting their fair due in contracts because all those numbers effect negotiations for other players.

Krejci's contract is actually worth 3 mil for 1 year. It's 1 mil in base salary and 2 mil in performance bonuses. He has already earned 1.5 mil of the performance bonuses and he's a lock for the rest.

But even if it were only 1 mil total, I doubt the NHLPA would care, as these types of discounts are much more the exception than the rule. One player taking less means another player can get more, or another player who might not have gotten a contract now gets one. The players' total slice of the pie is set. A few players taking discounts doesn't impact that. And even if the NHLPA did have an issue with it, there's nothing they could do about it.

 

[Circus86]

Krejci's contract is actually worth 3 mil for 1 year. It's 1 mil in base salary and 2 mil in performance bonuses. He has already earned 1.5 mil of the performance bonuses and he's a lock for the rest.

View attachment 632748

But even if it were only 1 mil total, I doubt the NHLPA would care, as these types of discounts are much more the exception than the rule. One player taking less means another player can get more, or another player who might not have gotten a contract now gets one. The players' total slice of the pie is set. A few players taking discounts doesn't impact that. And even if the NHLPA did have an issue with it, there's nothing they could do about it.

Stupid question but does the performance bonus count towards the cap. Is Krejci taking 1 or 3 mil. of Boston's cap space?

Edit. Googlet it. Counts against the cap but you can exceed the maximum cap by a certain amount during the season because of bonuses.

 

[mike14]

Stupid question but does the performance bonus count towards the cap. Is Krejci taking 1 or 3 mil. of Boston's cap space?

What is a Performance Bonus?​

A Performance Bonus can be given to a player in addition to their salary. Performance bonuses are only paid to the player if they meet the requirements as defined by the bonus. Performance bonuses count against the salary cap; however, a team can exceed the salary cap due to performance bonuses by the maximum performance bonus cushion amount of 7.5 percent of the upper limit. Not all players are eligible for Performance Bonuses, and to receive a bonus within their contract, a player must meet one of the following criteria:

1. The player is on an entry-level contract.
2. The player has signed a one-year contract and is over 35 years old.
3. The player has signed a one-year contract after returning from a long-term injury (has played 400 or more games, and spent 100 or more days on the Injured Reserve in the last year of their most recent contract).
   
   NHL CBA FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Alluckks]

Krejci's contract is actually worth 3 mil for 1 year. It's 1 mil in base salary and 2 mil in performance bonuses. He has already earned 1.5 mil of the performance bonuses and he's a lock for the rest.

View attachment 632748

But even if it were only 1 mil total, I doubt the NHLPA would care, as these types of discounts are much more the exception than the rule. One player taking less means another player can get more, or another player who might not have gotten a contract now gets one. The players' total slice of the pie is set. A few players taking discounts doesn't impact that. And even if the NHLPA did have an issue with it, there's nothing they could do about it.

I missed the performance bonuses; but they are still definitely discounts. Open markets both players get more money and more years.

I also never argued the point, but was just articulating what I figured Machinehead meant.

I do agree to an extent that the NHLPA likely is not happy about it. Precedent and reference points for contracts are more important to negotiations than available slices of the pie in a single season.

 

[RangerBoy]

Chris Johnston. Buyers market. There isn't much cap space available for teams to add players and teams will be reluctant to trade 1st round picks in the 2023 draft. More players will be available than teams with money to spend.

 

[Machinehead]

Why? You think there's another payment "under the table"?

No, it's just an egregiously low pay grade.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Panarin at 11.5 and Kreider at 6.5 was looking like extremely good value for your top 2 LWs before the Covid shutdown.

The problem is that a lot of factors post-shutdown completely flipped the calculus on it’s head.

6.5 is still more than fair for Kreider even today.

11.5 is bad for Panarin if this is how he's going to be from now on.

And 8m for Trouba is a war crime.