Speculation: Roster Building Thread II (2019/2020) - DeAngelo and Lemieux Left

[haveandare]

There's a great scene from the Larry Sanders Show where Larry wants Bobcat Goldthwait to be his guest host and he does a trial run which is way over the top and obnoxious. Larry says to him, "The energy was great, but maybe dial it back to a seven." When Bobcat tells him that was a seven, Larry says, "Let's see two."

That's kind of how I feel about DeAngelo. I like aggressive hockey, but I think he needs to fine tune his concept of risk/reward a tad.

A very specific and properly quoted Larry Sanders reference on hf?

This is truly a wondrous day.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I think Tony is a River Boat Gambler and we should keep him around just so we can be able to refer to someone on our team as a River Boat Gambler.

 

[Leetch3]

Sean Tierney does a good job with WAR/projecting line-ups/projecting point totals.

He has the Rangers as a 73 point team.



The same thing happened last year. The Rangers won't be as bad as the WAR people are projecting. You will see and they will all be proven wrong. Lundqvist won't allow the Rangers to be a bottom five team. The Rangers have too much talent to be a bottom five team. They may even challenge for a playoff spot because those teams in the Metro don't scare anyone.

The Rangers ended up worse 6th overall. The Rangers weren't a bottom five team.

we only weren't bottom 5 cause quinn and the team missed the memo that we were supposed to be developing a loser culture by tanking and picked up 3 points in the last 2 games

 

[will1066]

There's a great scene from the Larry Sanders Show where Larry wants Bobcat Goldthwait to be his guest host and he does a trial run which is way over the top and obnoxious. Larry says to him, "The energy was great, but maybe dial it back to a seven." When Bobcat tells him that was a seven, Larry says, "Let's see two."

That's kind of how I feel about DeAngelo. I like aggressive hockey, but I think he needs to fine tune his concept of risk/reward a tad.

DeAngelo's still better than Skjei, who is like someone grabbed the controller and suddenly ramps up his aggressiveness to 11 when he goes on a one-man rush, circles the entire offensive zone only to shoot wide or give the puck away to spring the rush the other way.

 

[Thirty One]

DeAngelo's still better than Skjei, who is like someone grabbed the controller and suddenly ramps up his aggressiveness to 11 when he goes on a one-man rush, circles the entire offensive zone only to shoot wide or give the puck away to spring the rush the other way.

Yeah, and I like DeAngelo, but I think he's going to need to make some adjustments if he's going to find the ice time he deserves under an NHL coach with other options.

 

[Leetch3]

Yeah, I see the loser points as a sign that they should have had more points, not less.

it can go either way...we were terrible in OT, so does that mean we were that close to adding more points in the standings? or does it mean we were lucky to even get to OT cause 1 less save where lundqvist/georgiev bailed out our terrible defense during regulation and you don't even make OT...

all the overtime games tells me that the team was competitive, but I don't think I can draw the conclusion that they deserved more points...

makes me think of the mighty ducks movie when gordon bombay hit the post in the championship game "one inch and it goes it"..."yeah but one inch in the other direction and you miss the net completely"

 

[will1066]

it can go either way...we were terrible in OT, so does that mean we were that close to adding more points in the standings? or does it mean we were lucky to even get to OT cause 1 less save where lundqvist/georgiev bailed out our terrible defense during regulation and you don't even make OT...

all the overtime games tells me that the team was competitive, but I don't think I can draw the conclusion that they deserved more points...

makes me think of the mighty ducks movie when gordon bombay hit the post in the championship game "one inch and it goes it"..."yeah but one inch in the other direction and you miss the net completely"

I'm on the fence with this OT debate.

 

[SA16]

it can go either way...we were terrible in OT, so does that mean we were that close to adding more points in the standings? or does it mean we were lucky to even get to OT cause 1 less save where lundqvist/georgiev bailed out our terrible defense during regulation and you don't even make OT...

all the overtime games tells me that the team was competitive, but I don't think I can draw the conclusion that they deserved more points...

makes me think of the mighty ducks movie when gordon bombay hit the post in the championship game "one inch and it goes it"..."yeah but one inch in the other direction and you miss the net completely"

The goal posts have a diameter of 2.375." It is not possible for "one inch and it goes in" and "one inch in the other direction and you miss the net" to occur. Glaring oversight.

 

[will1066]

Yeah, and I like DeAngelo, but I think he's going to need to make some adjustments if he's going to find the ice time he deserves under an NHL coach with other options.

For most of last year, Quinn had him on a short rope, but he loosened it a lot at the end. I think he's earned enough rope, plus he's going to be looked at as more of a vet this year just because of the insane amount of rookies around. But who knows, really? It's Quinn and the Quinn Bin might have ADA's name inscribed into a wall or roof beam already.

 

[True Blue]

TB pls, it's spelled loser.

Yeah, hanging my head in shame as I am a card carrying member of the grammar police. Sometimes fast typing at work has its detriments.

 

[nyr2k2]

You completely missed my point. The point was that were it not for such a crap shoot as the looser's point, they would have been worse. Basically that was even money. What I am saying is that in reality, when looking at the teams, they were not all that different from the teams that finished bottom 3 last year.

No I completely understood your point, and you missed mine. Getting to overtime is NOT a crapshoot. What happens in OT is often a crapshoot. They didn't luck their way into OT all those games. The loser points we earned weren't luck.

 

[True Blue]

And if Hajek and Rykov dont push through, you may have Lindgren or Reunanen able to.

That does not change the fact that presuming that 2 rookies each night is going to make a defense instantly better and more stable is pining your hopes on something that may not happen. I believe that two of the will be fine.....for rookies. But as such, there will be ups and downs and hanging your hat on them being instant NHL-level defenders is setting yourself up for disappointment.

They have stocked up in legitimate options with more promising D prospect depth than they have ever had.

Sure, of course that is the hope. What they have today are legitimate prospects. Whether or not they are legitimate options TODAY is entirely up for debate.

 

[True Blue]

Pls elaborate.

They got luck in some instances and unlucky in others.

There is really not much differentiating them between the teams that finished in the bottom 3 last year. If you think that they were that much better, that is entirely your prerogative.

 

[nyr2k2]

They got luck in some instances and unlucky in others.

There is really not much differentiating them between the teams that finished in the bottom 3 last year. If you think that they were that much better, that is entirely your prerogative.

Who made that argument?

 

[Thirty One]

They got luck in some instances and unlucky in others.

There is really not much differentiating them between the teams that finished in the bottom 3 last year. If you think that they were that much better, that is entirely your prerogative.

I wouldn't disagree that the season carried somewhat of an aura of good fortune, but I think the amount of OTLs isn't evidence supportive of that.

 

[bobbop]

I think that a lot of optimism for improved defense should stem from the fact that are forwards will likely be delivering a more rounded game this year. Panarin certainly drives possession, Kakko will get there quickly and the young players have an additional year of experience. The Rangers defensive problems weren't all on their defenseman last year (or the year before) (or the year before that...)

 

[nyr2k2]

Something to consider with ADA, since I see a lot of people (not in here right now, but over the past few months) extrapolating his point totals or talking about his P/60. He had 26 assists, 16 of which were secondary, or about 62%. In 16-17, when Brady Skjei had 34 assists, 20 of them were secondary, or 59%. Obviously we know Skjei was due for a regression. What is the average percent of assists that are secondary for a defenseman? I have no idea. Here are some other high-performing defensemen from last season:

Jacob Trouba: 25/42 (60%)--career year
Mark Giordano: 32/57 (56%)--career year
John Carlson: 20/57 (35%)
Torey Krug: 22/47 (47%)
Brent Burns: 22/67 (40%)
Keith Yandle: 17/53 (32%)
Morgan Reilly: 24/52 (46%)
Ty Barrie: 18/45 (40%)
Victor Hedman: 21/42 (50%)
Erik Karlsson: 19/42 (45%)
Kris Letang: 14/40 (35%)

Then I got tired of doing this exercise. However, what this shows me, is that the top defensemen around have a secondary assist rate, on average, between 35%-45%. You can see Trouba and Giordano had unusually high numbers relative to the rest, and they both had big-time career years in terms of assists as a result.

My point being, if we want to talk about DeAngelo consistently becoming a top point-producing defenseman, he's going to have to generate more primary assists and become less reliant on secondary assists. That may come with having better teammates, or it may not. Time will tell. Just use caution when looking at his numbers and assuming he can just continue producing at those rates moving forward. We saw with Skjei that it is unsustainable, and we may see it with Trouba (he can do other things so it's okay). Will we see it with ADA?

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Being bad this year is a complete double edged sword. I mean if we are really stinking, like bottom 5, it means some of our guys have stagnated or aren't progressing the way they should be. I'm taling about Andersson and Chytl especially. This is a year for them to show the team that they are on the right track to where they need to be. Maybe one of them claims the number 2 center spot. They are still young, but they will need to show progress this year.

 

[leetch99]

I've come a long way on D'Angelo but I read this boards and feel like he is being (slightly) overrated. Let's tap the brakes a little. He still has a lot of work to do on the defensive end (a lot of work) and I'd like to see his offense play out over a much longer period than the 25 or so games where he played well last year. I'd also like to see him play 82 games (or at least close) and not spend so much time in Chateau Bow-Wow. Tony is a work in progress.

He might never be great defensively bobob and as such he might be a luxury we might not be able to afford in a season or so ....but I have my doubts he will lose his offensive skills which were quite visible in the 25? games he did play . I can't see those skills eroding over a Summer but I suppose stranger things have happened . Now on the other stuff....it is all his to lose as he has the whole world in front of him right now and hopefully he can handle and adapt to that part . He will have to suck it up and live with a modest raise and go for the big payoff next season . I sure hope he can keep focused and find himself some buckets of Dolan money next season....rooting for him !!!

 

[Gardner McKay]

The goal posts have a diameter of 2.375." It is not possible for "one inch and it goes in" and "one inch in the other direction and you miss the net" to occur. Glaring oversight.

That is presuming it hits the goalpost squarely in the middle.

 

[Zibanejbread]

lol

 

[Thirty One]

lol

Meh, I don't like this.

 

[TheTakedown]

Who was doing the negotiations? Are there rules for this? I mean when someone makes a trade with the organisation which they were employed just before?

If you have the Athletic you should read the whole article its super well written. i'll put the snippet below though

The Granlund-for-Fiala trade was the one that sparked the most angst.
There were a number of people inside the organization who were worried that over that month leading into the trade deadline Fenton became too singularly focused and “obsessed” with getting Fiala, whom he feels could become a game-breaker. It apparently took some convincing from his staff to keep Fenton from giving up more than Granlund and even retaining salary.
“There was just frustration beyond comprehension,” a source said.

Fenton was proud of his one-for-one “hockey trade,” but very rarely in the NHL is a known quantity like Granlund traded for an unproven player without getting another asset back. It sure sounds like Fenton’s old mentor, David Poile, strung him along for a month to the point that Fenton thought he was getting a steal when Poile finally agreed.
“David knew he had him and played mind games with him all the way to the deadline,” a league source said.

Maybe Fenton will have ultimately gotten a steal. Granlund’s a year from a big payday that the Wild may have scoffed at, and we won’t know for some time if Fiala breaks through. Like Donato, Fiala is 23 and showed flashes of talent, so time will tell. But this was another example of Fenton not listening to his staff, particularly their suggestion that he wait and shop Granlund around to the entire league this summer rather than just one team at the trade deadline for one player he knew well.

Similarly, multiple sources say Fenton could have traded Staal to the Boston Bruins, but their sense was Fenton already had a handshake agreement to extend Staal’s contract by two years. It bothered some in the front office because it contradicted Fenton’s stated desires to get younger, add future assets and give more responsibility and ice time to players like Eriksson Ek or Kunin, who can also play center. It was the same rationale that made some question why he wanted to add Rask, a center, with so much term left on his contract.

Guy is a clown

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think the percentage of secondary assists with DeAngelo will be offset by the uptick in primary assists he'll get by playing more minutes with better players.

Point totals are nice and all, but as long as he can keep on moving pucks out of his own end that eventually lead to scoring chances and goals, we'll be happy.

 

[will1066]

Meh, I don't like this.

Well, his weekend's not going to be ruined.