Speculation: Roster Building Thread II (2019/2020) - DeAngelo and Lemieux Left

[mulli25]

respectfully disagree

last year it was

this year we will see a dramatic improvement.

If you'd swap "will" with "might" i'd tend to agree, but quite a few things would have to break our way for that be a reality. Unfortunately, things could easily break the other way too

ADA keeps it rolling <-or-> ADA struggles to stay in the lineup
Brady Skjei meets his potential <-or-> Brady Skjei continues to disappoint
Fox can play meaningful minutes <-or-> Fox really struggles at the NHL level
One of Rykov, Hajek, etc, nail down the LD spot <-or-> No one really stands out as an obvious choice

The swapping of Trouba and Shattenkirk is a universally accepted positive, but pretty much everything else is TBD

Hence, to me at least, our defense is a tire fire until we've observed otherwise.

 

[Mikos87]

I see the Rangers as a 82-88 Point team. No playoffs. But lots of inconsistency that gets peoples hopes up. Here's what I expect:

• Team scores more goals going from 227 to 245
• Team defense improves due to Trouba and better mobility.
• Goaltending takes a step forward with Shesty & Geo filling in, and Hank getting limited minutes. Lack of fatigue for Hank helps with more quality starts. But the goaltending trio (should Shesty stick around), steals 15 wins this year.
• Team GA improves to 250 but...
• ...PK remains bottom 5. You see improvements with Trouba being the anchor, but not enough to carry the load.
• Year consists of intermittent periods of offensive dominance, mixed in with defensive lapses.
• 5-2 wins are followed up with 4-0 losses.
• Team is more consistent in terms of the games they show up for. There is more effort, with the likes of Pionk, Shatts, & Vesey out of the line-up, but the ELCs make a lot of mistakes.
• What ends up hurting the team the most is a lack of clear roles outside of the top players.
• Kids get their ice time slashed and raised, but none of the ELCs fill a consistent slot in the line-up leading to Quinn being questioned on these boards.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I think I saw Vegas set our line at 86.5 points, which I think is a pretty reasonable increase from last year. I still think we're going to struggle with depth scoring because we're going to be over-reliant on contributions from rookie and sophomore players. The defense will be improved by proxy of giving Pionk's usage to Trouba, but I'm still concerned about overall team defense. They still need a big improvement from last year's structure and play with and without the puck.

 

[TheTakedown]

The reason why Minnesota traded Granlund for Fiala was maybe that they did not want to pay him 8 mill. And that gave them the opportunity to sign Zuccarello. And get 2 players for a little more (if they bridge Fiala). Trading him for Kreider does not make any sense if that is true. But on the other hand, they have fired the GM since then...

Partially yes, but Fenton was also obsessed with Fiala, which plays into it. That should have been way more than a 1 for 1 hockey trade

 

[TheTakedown]

The Devils are also potentially adding half a season of Taylor Hall.

Do we even know what's wrong with him? Whether or not he'll rebound? does he even want to stay with that team? The devils have nobody signed for more than 3 years except Severson who is signed for 4. if Hall doesn't want to stay they will move him

 

[Calad]

I think I saw Vegas set our line at 86.5 points, which I think is a pretty reasonable increase from last year. I still think we're going to struggle with depth scoring because we're going to be over-reliant on contributions from rookie and sophomore players. The defense will be improved by proxy of giving Pionk's usage to Trouba, but I'm still concerned about overall team defense. They still need a big improvement from last year's structure and play with and without the puck.

I'd pretty comfortably take the under on that line.

 

[RangerLifer]

Too bad Shatty couldn't work up that chip now on his shoulder to HELP US. Eff him....

https://nypost.com/2019/08/05/kevin-shattenkirk-signs-with-lightning-after-rangers-buyout/

 

[Mikos87]

I think I saw Vegas set our line at 86.5 points, which I think is a pretty reasonable increase from last year. I still think we're going to struggle with depth scoring because we're going to be over-reliant on contributions from rookie and sophomore players. The defense will be improved by proxy of giving Pionk's usage to Trouba, but I'm still concerned about overall team defense. They still need a big improvement from last year's structure and play with and without the puck.

IMO it's 3 things:

• Penalty Killing. Which cost the Rangers a number of games last year, especially early on. They took a bad penalty in the first, and they were down the rest of the game.
• Neutral Zone Defense 5v5. A number of guys were turn-styles last year- Shatts, Pionk, Smith, and yes DeAngelo. Teams attacked the right side and came in with ease.
• D-Zone Coverage 5v5. The slot was better protected than the AV days, but lost battles, and slow puck retrievals lead to extended zone time.

Improvement in those areas will help the team. Trouba is going to be out there for 45% of the game in all of those situations, but they need either DeAngelo or Fox to be able to be competent the rest of the way. I think Fox is going to surprise a number of people 5v5 without the puck.

 

[Mikos87]

Trouba > Shattenkirk
ADA should improve
Skjei should too, but not sure he will
Fox >? Pionk
Rykov/Hajek/Lindgren > Smith
Staal will likely regress even more
Maybe Chase Priskie signs with us strengthening the RD more? Will see in 8 days or so where he winds up. LA maybe?
We still likely need a vet UFA #7 D

It would be something else if the Rangers got Priskie. You have the rock in Trouba, but say the Rangers get Priskie, and he, Fox and DeAngelo all show that they can play a top 4 role.

That is going to make it very easy to get a young 2nd line center.

 

[nyr2k2]

Too bad Shatty couldn't work up that chip now on his shoulder to HELP US. Eff him....

https://nypost.com/2019/08/05/kevin-shattenkirk-signs-with-lightning-after-rangers-buyout/

Go read Whyno's Twitter thread on this:


Shattenkirk was pissed at HIMSELF, disappointed HE didn't play better and allowed the buyout to become an option, doesn't regret signing here, etc., etc. He's not blaming the Rangers or mad at the Rangers and the chip he has on his shoulder is from how he played the last two years. This has all been covered earlier in the Around the NHL thread, among other places.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

This has all been covered earlier in the Around the NHL thread, among other places.

Numerous times, I might add.

 

[True Blue]

seriously, what are we gonna do with all these defensive prospects?

The chances of all of them being legit NHL players is almost zero. Let things play out they way that they do. Comprise the best combos and trade the excess (if they have value) for more assets.

 

[True Blue]

seems pretty realistic to me...

As well. That is where we had them pretty much finishing.

 

[nyr2k2]

Trouba > Shattenkirk
ADA should improve
Skjei should too, but not sure he will
Fox >? Pionk
Rykov/Hajek/Lindgren > Smith
Staal will likely regress even more
Maybe Chase Priskie signs with us strengthening the RD more? Will see in 8 days or so where he winds up. LA maybe?
We still likely need a vet UFA #7 D

Curious, why would Priskie sign here? I mean he'd immediately be competing with DeAngelo and Fox, behind Trouba, and would soon have to compete with Lundkvist and Keane. My understanding is that he wants a clearer path to the NHL than what was afforded him by Washington. He definitely won't get it here.

 

[RangerBoy]

Sean Tierney does a good job with WAR/projecting line-ups/projecting point totals.

He has the Rangers as a 73 point team.



The same thing happened last year. The Rangers won't be as bad as the WAR people are projecting. You will see and they will all be proven wrong. Lundqvist won't allow the Rangers to be a bottom five team. The Rangers have too much talent to be a bottom five team. They may even challenge for a playoff spot because those teams in the Metro don't scare anyone.

The Rangers ended up worse 6th overall. The Rangers weren't a bottom five team.

 

[Mac n Gs]

IMO it's 3 things:

• Penalty Killing. Which cost the Rangers a number of games last year, especially early on. They took a bad penalty in the first, and they were down the rest of the game.
• Neutral Zone Defense 5v5. A number of guys were turn-styles last year- Shatts, Pionk, Smith, and yes DeAngelo. Teams attacked the right side and came in with ease.
• D-Zone Coverage 5v5. The slot was better protected than the AV days, but lost battles, and slow puck retrievals lead to extended zone time.

Improvement in those areas will help the team. Trouba is going to be out there for 45% of the game in all of those situations, but they need either DeAngelo or Fox to be able to be competent the rest of the way. I think Fox is going to surprise a number of people 5v5 without the puck.

100% agreed. I'm amazed that nothing was done to address the PK situation under Ruff since they've been bottom-5 in the league both years under him. Part of it had to do with personnel changes, but there really are no excuses for structural design he's coaching. They're still overcommitting too many players down low and it's leaving the far side open for a shooting gallery.

Similar issues are leading to the NZ issues where they have guys getting caught way too deep on the forecheck, yielding way too much space for teams to counterattack off the rush. Not having their F3 shadow the center-ice outlet pass option is another big pet peeve of mine.

I think you covered the defensive zone part of it pretty well, and like you said, subbing out guys like Pionk and Vesey should help improve puck retrievals and turning more quickly on loose pucks.

 

[leetch99]

It would be something else if the Rangers got Priskie. You have the rock in Trouba, but say the Rangers get Priskie, and he, Fox and DeAngelo all show that they can play a top 4 role.

That is going to make it very easy to get a young 2nd line center.

I think Tony DeAngelo will be our top point getter from the blueline . He will out point the rest by at least 10 points....his skills are vastly underrated on here . He easily could have 60 points for us with a decent run PP for a change .

 

[True Blue]

There was a lot of that, and there was a lot of "This team is bottom-three, for sure. Look at the other teams." Followed by arbitrarily proclaiming other **** teams to be much better than us.

Were it not for the looser's point, they were much closer to being a bottom 3 team.

 

[True Blue]

this year we will see a dramatic improvement.

Your premise is predicated on DeAngelo taking giant steps forward, Staal discovering the fountain of youth and two rookies instantly being NHL contributors on the defense. That has to be the case, because while Trouba makes things better, by himself he cannot remake an entire defense. And the chances of all of those things coming to fruition next season are not great.

 

[ETTER DE]

Partially yes, but Fenton was also obsessed with Fiala, which plays into it. That should have been way more than a 1 for 1 hockey trade

Who was doing the negotiations? Are there rules for this? I mean when someone makes a trade with the organisation which they were employed just before?

 

[nyr2k2]

Were it not for the looser's point, they were much closer to being a bottom 3 team.

That's all well and good, but the loser point exists. The team was competent enough to get into OT as often as they did, and even though they ended up like 9-14 or whatever, I don't think it's fair to portray those points as some kind of "fluke" as people often do. Again, you still have to get a game to overtime to benefit from the loser point, so, it is what it is. If the shitty teams behind us made it to overtime more often, they'd have more points, too; instead, they couldn't get to OT as much, and as a result had fewer points.

They weren't good enough to regularly win in regulation (how many games did we f*** up right at the end?) but they weren't bad enough to lose all those games in regulation.

 

[Thirty One]

That's all well and good, but the loser point exists. The team was competent enough to get into OT as often as they did, and even though they ended up like 9-14 or whatever, I don't think it's fair to portray those points as some kind of "fluke" as people often do. Again, you still have to get a game to overtime to benefit from the loser point, so, it is what it is. If the ****ty teams behind us made it to overtime more often, they'd have more points, too; instead, they couldn't get to OT as much, and as a result had fewer points.

Yeah, I see the loser points as a sign that they should have had more points, not less.

 

[nyr2k2]

Yeah, I see the loser points as a sign that they should have had more points, not less.

I've always kinda felt the same, but was afraid to share that belief because I figured people who are good with numbers would bludgeon me to death with regression analyses or something.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Since Smith wasn't bought out he could end up being the 7th D, depending on the cap situation.

e: also a bit of versatility since he can play both sides of the ice

hes actually a nice piece to have around.

plug into line 4 and be effective. he will drop em.

he can be the 7th guy

hes versatile enough, unlike shatty was.

 

[SA16]

Partially yes, but Fenton was also obsessed with Fiala, which plays into it. That should have been way more than a 1 for 1 hockey trade

Why? I'd rather have Fiala with his contract status than Granlund with his. Especially in Minnesota's position.