Speculation: Roster Building Thread I (2021 Offseason) - And so it begins...

[DutchShamrock]

The Lebrun article polled 7 executives about the Eichel situation. The consensus was a return of a 1st, another pick and a good young player or several good pieces to help another rebuild.

I'm torn on it honestly. If we turned Strome into Eichel, that's a massive upgrade in the top 2 centers. And if the cost was Chytil, Buch and a 1st, you have the roster spots and space to fill in with missing ingredients like a Gourde or grinding, defensive center. But it's a gamble.

I see someone desperate like Bergevin going for it. You probably are getting fired next season so you don't care about futures. Do or die.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Chris Kreider End of Season Presser.

 

[Ola]

Exactly what I expect will happen.

My Dad was a die hard Jets fan and made a 3-step pact in the 80s...where they had a 2-year window to do certain coach/personnel things or he was giving up investing in them. He gave up the Jets shortly thereafter and doesn’t regret his decision one bit.

Feels like I am right in that window myself, might be time to think about a list. No idea what this franchise is about to do at the moment.

Amen, I am stuck with this team, but I really have no clue if we will make disasterous moves or not the coming 12-24 months.

What I do however find a lot of solace in, is that if Drury don’t have what it takes, I think it will show fast. He doesn’t have an easy task.

It’s not my proudest moment at these boards, and was posts made when I was very frustrated, but I called out @Edge and claimed that if our current management held on to Quinn it wouldn’t be just Quinn’s head rolling when we stood their with our pants down next season, could very well be Gorton’s head too.

Now this call turned out to be correct much sooner than I expected, but the same of course applies to Drury. Sometimes a coach and GM can come to a set table and do great, without being deserving. My best example is Anaheim under Burke. He had the perfect team for that era. Mix of size on the wings and speed at center ice, Ds that could move the puck really well. Everyone was talking about how physically was what won Anaheim the Cup, but that was only half the truth. Andy McDonald was their No 1 center and his speed and mobility was crucial in getting those heavy wingers involved. Along with how Scott N moved the puck. Burke obviously had no clue whatsoever because he instantly blew up that mix and Anaheim basically didn’t make the POs under him again, right? Or they sucked at least.

Whomever is brought in to coach us next season or if DQ is retained, won’t luck out and get results. At best, we will sneak into the POs but the difference between potential and output will be too obvious.

 

[Off Sides]

It's hard to be so negative about Zibanejad, the guy has been everything we could have hoped for and more since he was traded here. But I can't help but think if the Rangers re-sign him, it is going to be a signing they regret sooner than later. I'd almost rather just let him walk after next season and lose him for nothing.

I think they should at least allow for that possibility by not extending him now. Given his no movement clause the Rangers do not have much negotiation leverage now or then so it kind of does not matter, yet if they wait, if at that point they really can't stomach what he is asking for they could consider letting him become a self rental.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

It's hard to be so negative about Zibanejad, the guy has been everything we could have hoped for and more since he was traded here. But I can't help but think if the Rangers re-sign him, it is going to be a signing they regret sooner than later. I'd almost rather just let him walk after next season and lose him for nothing.

Thats why you trade him to a contending team to recoup the assets we will trade away for the right two centers. I love Zibs but that next contract will be a mistake especially in the playoffs. He disappears when physicality is present and thats all the playoffs are!

 

[Payote75]

Hey what's up guys? I'm new here but NYR fan for over 30 years I'm 45 bleed blue. Now to my point. To continue this rebuild correctly in my opinion Laff, Krav, Kakko, cannot be moved at all. Those are the 3 core pieces up front Fox obviously untouchable and Lundqvist I'd keep for sure. So then most will wonder what kind of packages can be put together. Well Eichel wants out now Reinhardt and Reno also. They have no centers. Nothing to say Eichel trade can't be expanded bit Eichel alone. Do you guys think

Strome
Buchy
Jones
Robertson
1st ronder (maybe another 1st rounder if needed?)
Chytll can be subbed for any one of the two or added if the deal expanded.

I like Buchy but his spot should go to Kravy he is cheaper and I believe way more talented.

My point is the core 4 should be
Laff
Kakko
Kravy
Fox

Lastly Lindgren should be near no deal ever not ever mentioned lol

 

[Edge]

It’s not my proudest moment at these boards, and was posts made when I was very frustrated, but I called out @Edge and claimed that if our current management held on to Quinn it wouldn’t be just Quinn’s head rolling when we stood their with our pants down next season, could very well be Gorton’s head too.

You kinda lost me on this one.

 

[Payote75]

Oh last thing PLEASE NO TORTS!!! HE WILL STUNT ALL THE YOUNG KIDS I BEG THE RANGERS LOL NO TORTS!!!

 

[DanielBrassard]

Thats why you trade him to a contending team to recoup the assets we will trade away for the right two centers. I love Zibs but that next contract will be a mistake especially in the playoffs. He disappears when physicality is present and thats all the playoffs are!

I agree that would be the preferred path IMO. But as @Off Sides said, his NMC will be an obstacle to have to work around which will make a trade tough.

 

[McRanger92]

The Rangers aren't moving Zibanejad if the goal is to start contending. And with the NMC, its either sign him or lose him for nothing.

Hate it or love it, the decision has seemingly been made for them

 

[Off Sides]

I agree that would be the preferred path IMO. But as @Off Sides said, his NMC will be an obstacle to have to work around which will make a trade tough.

I think at next deadline the options will be

Extend him to basically what he asks for
or
Self rent
or
Trade him if he waives, to a team he picks. The Buffalo/Boston Hall trade situation.

 

[Machinehead]

Cocaine Jim begs to differ

I think the "Dolan takeover" thing is a false narrative. He's owned the team since the mid-90's. The ship has sailed and it's not anything new.

He signed off on the rebuild. He allowed Sather to stock the cupboard from 2009-2011 when we could have chased another run with that Jagr squad. We rightfully chased a Cup from 2012-2016 because we had a chance to win it, but a lot of the team was homegrown and the only crazy stars were Nash who we didn't even sign, and Richards who made sense and didn't hurt us that much.

In recent years, we've mostly stuck to players who wanted to be here -- Shattenkirk, Panarin, Fox, Trouba. And although three of those guys were expensive, they get what they got and probably more on the market.

In the grand scheme of things, there were only a few years in the early 2000's where we were a "buy everything that moves" team and I think that phase is over because it didn't f***ing work and even Dolan can see that.

And even if we do make a splash, trading for a 24-year-old Jack Eichel (even if I don't agree with it) is very different from acquiring Pavel Bure practically crippled, Eric Lindros practically dead, Fluery drunk and at 31, Holik at 32, and Messier at 40.

And you know what? Most of those guys were effective for us. Those teams failed because we threw those guys together on teams that had no depth and no identity.

I think we've demonstrated over the years that we now know better than to have complete randos on our bottom two lines and bottom two pairs, and Dolan/Drury have specifically mentioned identity and defined roles as reasons for the change.

 

[Fitzy]

If the Rangers had a deal in place for Zibby I think he would waive. He isn’t gonna force a final season here if he thinks they don’t want to extend him

 

[McRanger92]

If the Rangers had a deal in place for Zibby I think he would waive. He isn’t gonna force a final season here if he thinks they don’t want to extend him

There are legitimate concerns(I personally think they are overblown) with a long term deal for Mika, I just don't think trading him jives with the organizations stated desire to win now.

 

[haveandare]

They're not gonna trade Kakko

I sure hope so. I’m at a pretty legitimate low point in faith in the organization

 

[Fitzy]

There are legitimate concerns(I personally think they are overblown) with a long term deal for Mika, I just don't think trading him jives with the organizations stated desire to win now.

I agree with your take, I just don’t think he is unmovable if management disagrees

 

[rangers1314]

31 Thoughts: What caused the 'disconnect' between Eichel, Sabres

Says a decision on DQ is coming this week, also interestingly says "Chris Drury is pretty popular. Not sure what he’s going to do with his front office, but there’s a lot of interest in working for him, and, by extension, the Rangers."

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I think the "Dolan takeover" thing is a false narrative. He's owned the team since the mid-90's. The ship has sailed and it's not anything new.

What is new is he's gone a year and a half of lost revenue to the pandemic.

He signed off on the rebuild. He allowed Sather to stock the cupboard from 2009-2011 when we could have chased another run with that Jagr squad. We rightfully chased a Cup from 2012-2016 because we had a chance to win it, but a lot of the team was homegrown and the only crazy stars were Nash who we didn't even sign, and Richards who made sense and didn't hurt us that much.

He signed off on the rebuild, but we don't know how Sather and co sold that to him. Was it was "you gotta be patient" or was it "we'll be cup contenders in two years"?

In the grand scheme of things, there were only a few years in the early 2000's where we were a "buy everything that moves" team and I think that phase is over because it didn't f***ing work and even Dolan can see that.

Those years are over because the league adopted a salary cap. But I do wonder how much Dolan's finger prints are on the "one player away moves" (Nash, MSL, Yandle), the years were the Rangers dealt picks and let the farm system run dry—which went a long way to the need for the letter and (re)build.

And even if we do make a splash, trading for a 24-year-old Jack Eichel (even if I don't agree with it) is very different from acquiring Pavel Bure practically crippled, Eric Lindros practically dead, Fluery drunk and at 31, Holik at 32, and Messier at 40.

Age aside, the Eichel very well could wind up the same way. He's seemingly injured right now and the cost to acquire him will likely be higher than what they gave up for Bure. And the Lindros trade was bad trade from the start. The other three were FA signings at a time when there was no cap.

And you know what? Most of those guys were effective for us. Those teams failed because we threw those guys together on teams that had no depth and no identity.

I don't think any of those guys were effective. You can point at all the stats you want, those teams were a mess.

I think we've demonstrated over the years that we now know better than to have complete randos on our bottom two lines and bottom two pairs, and Dolan/Drury have specifically mentioned identity and defined roles as reasons for the change.

Dolan was given talking points. And despite your rosy revisionist history, all he has shown able to do is sit behind the scenes and make ignorant proclamations that fly in the face of reality. And there seemingly is already a storm brewing in that Dolan says he got rid of JD/G because the team hasn't progressed the way he wants (or at least someone told him that it hasn't) and Drury then says there's no timetable for the playoffs....

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

there seemingly is already a storm brewing in that Dolan says he got rid JD/G because the team hasn't progressed the way he wants (or at least someone told him that it hasn't) and Drury then says there's no timetable for the playoffs..

This is probably the oddest thing about this whole situation tbh

something happened behind the scenes that I hope we get the full story on at some point

 

[TheBloodyNine]

The Lebrun article polled 7 executives about the Eichel situation. The consensus was a return of a 1st, another pick and a good young player or several good pieces to help another rebuild.

I'm torn on it honestly. If we turned Strome into Eichel, that's a massive upgrade in the top 2 centers. And if the cost was Chytil, Buch and a 1st, you have the roster spots and space to fill in with missing ingredients like a Gourde or grinding, defensive center. But it's a gamble.

I see someone desperate like Bergevin going for it. You probably are getting fired next season so you don't care about futures. Do or die.

Really seems like GMs were all over the place.

I also love the Athletic Staff article on the situation that lists us as the only front runner and has a Carp blurb basically shitting all over the Ranger’s potential interest.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Hey what's up guys? I'm new here but NYR fan for over 30 years I'm 45 bleed blue. Now to my point. To continue this rebuild correctly in my opinion Laff, Krav, Kakko, cannot be moved at all. Those are the 3 core pieces up front Fox obviously untouchable and Lundqvist I'd keep for sure. So then most will wonder what kind of packages can be put together. Well Eichel wants out now Reinhardt and Reno also. They have no centers. Nothing to say Eichel trade can't be expanded bit Eichel alone. Do you guys think

Strome
Buchy
Jones
Robertson
1st ronder (maybe another 1st rounder if needed?)
Chytll can be subbed for any one of the two or added if the deal expanded.

I like Buchy but his spot should go to Kravy he is cheaper and I believe way more talented.

My point is the core 4 should be
Laff
Kakko
Kravy
Fox

Lastly Lindgren should be near no deal ever not ever mentioned lol

Welcome. Come for the conversation, stay for the misery.

side note: if the pop-ups start driving you mad and your screen starts flashing and crashes in the middle of you posting which causes you to have to start typing all over again for the price of 4 Starbucks coffees ($12) a year you can become a sponsor and I promise you your experience will be so much more enjoyable.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

31 Thoughts: What caused the 'disconnect' between Eichel, Sabres

Says a decision on DQ is coming this week, also interestingly says "Chris Drury is pretty popular. Not sure what he’s going to do with his front office, but there’s a lot of interest in working for him, and, by extension, the Rangers."

You mean all the hysteria last week that no one will want to work for the Rangers because Dolan is about to meddle was a bunch of BS rooted in nothing but half glass empty imagination?

Color me shocked.

 

[LokiDog]

Honestly - 100% dependent on the cost to acquire - I’m fine with Eichel. I think he’s a gamer. I think he’d bring some fire and want to win at all costs mentality with him. I don’t have concerns about his character based on the Buffalo situation. Look how bad it’s gotten - virtually every good player they have has stated they want out.

Eichel is the youngest point per game top flight center this team has had any hope of acquiring in a long time. He is an elite talent, and I actually believe we haven’t even seen the best of him due to Buffalo’s constant shit show. I feel he has even more to give.

I would not move all of these pieces but the list of pieces I would be willing to part with would look like:

1st Rounder (whatever year)
Kreider (wishful thinking)
Buch (reluctantly)
Lundkvist (reluctantly)
Strome
Chytil
Jones
One of KAM or Krav BUT the deal would have to be smaller and more reasonable. Like Strome/Krav/1st that’s it.

I do think Eichel would actually thrive here and, if DQ is sticking around, he won his only NCAA title coaching Eich.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

If you wanna know why those two got fired ill give you the most likely scenario. During the offseason Sather likely brought up the idea of being tougher, JD and Gorton either dismissed him or said they'd deal with it and didn't. The whole Panarin thing happens and Sather and Dolan are mad because they invested almost 12 mill a year into Panarin and JD and Gorts didn't do anything to protect him. This isn't the first time, Marchand took liberties with him one game he was obviously already injured. I've always thought Gorton and Sather weren't on the same page, it showed up after the letter when Gorton said they were rebuilding and Sather kept saying they'd still compete for a playoff spot.

 

[fm]

What is new is he's gone a year and a half of lost revenue to the pandemic.

He signed off on the rebuild, but we don't know how Sather and co sold that to him. Was it was "you gotta be patient" or was it "we'll be cup contenders in two years"?

Those years are over because the league adopted a salary cap. But I do wonder how much Dolan's finger prints are on the "one player away moves" (Nash, MSL, Yandle), the years were the Rangers dealt picks and let the farm system run dry—which went a long way to the need for the letter and (re)build.

Age aside, the Eichel very well could wind up the same way. He's seemingly injured right now and the cost to acquire him will likely be higher than what they gave up for Bure. And the Lindros trade was bad trade from the start. The other three were FA signings at a time when there was no cap.

I don't think any of those guys were effective. You can point at all the stats you want, those teams were a mess.

Dolan was given talking points. And despite your rosy revisionist history, all he has shown able to do is sit behind the scenes and make ignorant proclamations that fly in the face of reality. And there seemingly is already a storm brewing in that Dolan says he got rid of JD/G because the team hasn't progressed the way he wants (or at least someone told him that it hasn't) and Drury then says there's no timetable for the playoffs....

Well said! Is there a mandate or not? There apparently both is and isn't. Hope the Bluesman goes back to his cave and lets Dru do his thing.