Speculation: Roster Building Thread DCLXXVII: Derek Stepan Trade-A-Palooza

[LORDE]

True Blue probably popped a vessel reading this.

But god, do I hope it's Staal + 1st to take away Holden.

I think most of us would be fine with that scenario IFFFFFFFFFF

...we were getting another 1st from somewhere.

Let's see how everything shakes out before we lose our heads.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Doubtful but any chance we asked Nash to waive NMC to be exposed? I dont see any chance Vegas would take him at that cap hit. I know they are starting from scratch but hearing some players they are expected to land, they aren't going to have nearly $8m to throw at a player like Nash.

Why do any of the from a Rangers POV? Who would they even use that cap space on when they have plenty already?

 

[Mac n Gs]

AZ just dealt a pick and prospect to Philly for center Nick Cousins. Wonder if that impacts anything.

I don't expect shattenkirk to get 7 mil.

I expect him getting something aroun 6 6.5

I'd love to see him next to mcdonagh and Skjei next to Smith as our top 4. That'd be outstanding.

I'm torn on Stepan I am but he really did this to himself.

I know once you've made up your mind, it's tough to sway your opinion, but Stepan was our 3rd leading scorer still and that was having the WORST shooting% of his career. Still had the best goal metrics on the team, drove possession, all situations player. Don't let a horrible shooting% make you think he played poorly. His playoffs weren't good, but he still wasn't our biggest problem. Hayes and Miller had vanishing acts and Staal-Holden was an abomination. Much bigger fish to fry.

However, if you can set yourself up for a good future move like the Brass trade, I'm up for it. I just don't want people knocking Stepan as if he's some bum.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Interesting...

https://twitter.com/mckennaconor/status/875914913520209920

Same things were said about Subban.

Yet they traded for a guy who did something more egregious than either of those 2.

 

[Kovalev27]

Then how come Jt Miller hasn't "done this to himself" ?1 G in 41 career playoff games.

Because JT Miller is a 23 year old kid winger who just had a break out season playing in the bottom 6 making 2 mil a year.

Derek Stepan is 26 going on 40 with the way he skates. The associate captain first line center and 6.5 million dollar Steve Rucchin out there. Not acceptable not even close.

If you get a great return you trade him. Just like we did trading brassard

 

[Raspewtin]

Same things were said about Subban.

Yet they traded for a guy who did something more egregious than either of those 2.

The Habs are the best character assassination team in the NHL lmao

 

[hagsfan924]

Why do any of the from a Rangers POV? Who would they even use that cap space on when they have plenty already?

So that they can instead use protection spot on Lindberg or Fast. I think chances of Vegas taking Nash are very slim and rather protect one of our young guys.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Because JT Miller is a 23 year old kid winger who just had a break out season playing in the bottom 6 making 2 mil a year.

Derek Stepan is 26 going on 40 with the way he skates. The associate captain first line center and 6.5 million dollar Steve Rucchin out there. Not acceptable not even close.

If you get a great return you trade him. Just like we did trading brassard

Stepan had 55 points in a, and I agree, disappointing season. Some people talk about him as if he got 20 points and was a liability defensively. Only trade Stepan for a return too good to turn down. If that offer doesn't pop up, keep him and improve the defense by signing Shattenkirk.

With Klein retiring, Girardi bought out, we have the cap space

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

So that they can instead use protection spot on Lindberg or Fast. I think chances of Vegas taking Nash are very slim and rather protect one of our young guys.

Nash also has to agree to waive his NMC for the expansion draft, which didn't happen.

 

[SA16]

If Vegas wants Lindberg or Fast they can have them. That's really an extremely marginal loss compared to what some other teams could lose. Such an obsession with pretty good homegrown 4th liners.

 

[bernmeister]

Catching up on the Stepan rumor, Yotes fans seem adamant that they don't want to give up any of their young centers for Stepan, i don't know if Chayka feels the same but let's say so for arguments sake.

What other main pieces are there?
#7, would be a good start value wise but it doesn't really fit what NYR needs imo.
Murphy? I think he's just pretty bad, want no part of him.
Then we have like the several good pieces but no real main piece package.

Would something like Rieder + DeAngelo/Wood + pick (#23? 2nd rounder?) be something you're OK with?

I'm on the cusp here, i like Rieder, he's really good and the young RHDs would obviously be a good get for us, but we're trading a 1C here so i'm not sure how i'd feel.

Your thoughts?

Clubs have 12Fs, 6D.
If they don't surrender a C and add one in Stepan, if we throw in enough sweetener, it may make palatable Chychrun.
Like I consistently say, it is about the currency

Honestly no point in trading Stepan if you can't get pretty close to what you want.

Rangers shouldn't have to settle for less to move Stepan. He doesn't have to get moved.

"Less" is relative here.
Less than fair value? Full value? Overvaluation b'c people are getting greedy?
Stepan may not be the cause of the problem but he is not part of the solution.
Move for best return, competitive bids will not result in shortchange.

I think this almost proves that a deal with Arizona would involve one of their young forwards (+pick?). I mean, they have nothing else that I would value higher than trading Stepan. Because they are not moving OEL or Chychrun for Stepan.

Why not, if the overall deal is profitable enough for them.
Why not, if they are compromising and not surrendering?

If #7 is the main piece coming back then i'd wait with this trade until draft day and have a specific target in mind for #7 (Pettersson). If that target is not there, no trade.

Totally NO.
Take the pick
Gorton will take best option, or move it if profitable.
DO NOT STAY STUCK WITH STEPAN

But we have the pieces now to trade away and start the rebuild early. I dont want to waste Shesyorkin first 3 years in rebuild mode. Start it now...we likely aren't winning a cup next year by keeping the same core together. We don't need to do anything drastic, trade Step this year, get younger, get hungrier, stay competitive while retooling younger.

This ^.

 

[silverfish]

If Vegas wants Lindberg or Fast they can have them. That's really an extremely marginal loss compared to what some other teams could lose. Such an obsession with pretty good homegrown 4th liners.

Preach.

 

[Levitate]

I mean I think Fast and Lindberg are good players but I wouldn't be paying Vegas to not take them.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I mean I think Fast and Lindberg are good players but I wouldn't be paying Vegas to not take them.

Neither would I.

Though unless hes moved today, I expect Raanta to be their pick.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

For people who want to trade Stepan to 'start the rebuild" but want to keep Mcdonagh, Nash, Zucc etc that makes absolutely zero sense, if the Rangers are rebuilding, you go all in and do it while Mcdonagh and Zucc still have 2 years left on their deals which makes them way more valuable now oppose to a year before FA.

 

[bernmeister]

Bah, RB, you aren't the leader. Inferno and I have been there for quite some time.

In all seriousness, the bolded point above is key. A youth movement is not purposefully causing the team to become bad simply in order to move our picks up in the ranking; it's trading established vets for younger players and picks (and some dead weight) and allowing the chips to fall where they may. Will that perhaps (likely) lead to a worse record for a year or two? Sure. But you play through that and come back stronger. Classic example: the Yankees in baseball over the last couple years.

Also, it's not about getting rid of everyone over 25 just to get rid of them; it's about maximizing assets. Nobody wants to pay up for player X? Okay, you hold on to him rather than getting pennies on the dollar (e.g. Nash last summer), at least until the very last TDL before the player goes to UFA. So, if I were running this zoo:

Raanta: gone today before 3pm (due to Expansion Draft).
Stepan: gone before 7/1 (due to NTC).
Nash: gone, either now or at the TDL.
Staal: gone ASAP. If you can't make a deal (including retention/sweetener if necessary) over the next 12 months, buy him out next summer.
Zucc: gone sometime during the next two years.
McD: gone sometime during the next two years. Originally I was not as dogmatic here as RB - after all, this is a world class player in his prime (and on a sweetheart contract). But by the same token, that makes him the most valuable chip we have. You HAVE to handle/time this right, but he can be the key to the whole thing. Offered to the right team at the right time, and he should return a massive haul...
Kreider, Hayes, Miller: depends on the offers. I'm not in a rush. Make me a solid offer, and you can have them, otherwise I'm content to keep 'em for now. (Reevaluate in a year.)

Lindberg, Fast: solid organizational guys. I expect one of them to go in the expansion draft. The other can stay to provide organizational glue or go to help with a deal. No urgency here either way.

Skjei, Zibanejad, Buchnevich, Vesey: stay put, barring massive overpayment (ranked from most expensive to least).

Hank: most difficult of all. In the end, to me it comes down to what he wants. If he wants to retire a Ranger, he deserves that honor; if he wants a shot at the cup, you accommodate him.

Generally agree, but want more than solid offer for young core Kreider/Hayes/JT. Want to make moves to keep Lindy, Fast, if possible.

May our faction crush the win now inmates who have been running the asylum.

 

[Anthony5967]

I mean I think Fast and Lindberg are good players but I wouldn't be paying Vegas to not take them.

Nobody works harder than Quickie and is extremely versatile. Outworks everybody. The NYR Sheary.

 

[Ola]

There is no way Gorton goes after Joe Thornton. This is dark era type ****. Won't happen.

No he won't. But I would have no problem taking on a vet. Dark era is thinking Jumbo could lead us to a Cup. If we brought in like a Jumbo or Kova now -- it's for a minor/depth role with PP responsibility. That is very different -- and something DRW and others have done with success.

But the game is just too speed based, and it carried over into the POs without dropping off this season. Jumbo would just hold the outback too much 5 on 5. Not to mention the knee.

 

[SA16]

There's thing whole thing about needing a great fourth line after what we had with Boyle and Moore and such compared to what we have in Glass. You don't really need that. You just need to not play completely horrible players on it like Glass and all the enforcer types Sather has signed. Solid fourth liners are a dime a dozen you can get them cheap in FA every year or from the AHL

 

[Levitate]

Neither would I.

Though unless hes moved today, I expect Raanta to be their pick.

how many goalies are they going to take? Unless something changed I think someone like Grubaeur is probably a better pick for Vegas as a potential starter

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I think most want a reTOOL, not a full rebuild.

Then you trade a winger like Miller or even Zuccarello etc for that top defenseman unless you can acquire another center in a separate deal. You're not really going to "compete" with Hayes as your 2c.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Today could still be super busy after 3pm with teams making trades with Vegas once the protection lists are released

 

[silverfish]

There's thing whole thing about needing a great fourth line after what we had with Boyle and Moore and such compared to what we have in Glass. You don't really need that. You just need to not play completely horrible players on it like Glass and all the enforcer types Sather has signed. Solid fourth liners are a dime a dozen you can get them cheap in FA every year or from the AHL

Dropping nothing but straight fire today.

Preach, preach, preach, preach

 

[Anthony5967]

Is it possible the NYR can get both Strome and Cych??

 

[GregSirico]

For people who want to trade Stepan to 'start the rebuild" but want to keep Mcdonagh, Nash, Zucc etc that makes absolutely zero sense, if the Rangers are rebuilding, you go all in and do it while Mcdonagh and Zucc still have 2 years left on their deals which makes them way more valuable now oppose to a year before FA.

I agree with this 100%. The genera theory is this ... has our window shut with the talent we have, or do we need to blow it all up and change the culture, additionally. how do you beat the Pens ... say what you want, but ultimately that is the team you have to chase if you want to win it all. Although, I do think Mac and Zucc can very easily be the 'older vets' of the team moving forward. Having a team completely made up of 20 year olds sounds great, but you want balance.