Speculation: Roster Building Thread DCLXXVII: Derek Stepan Trade-A-Palooza

[Amazing Kreiderman]

A 1st wouldn't get rid of Staal alone.

And he needs to waive his NMC. But who knows? Maybe Vegas wants Staal to have an experienced D-man to start the franchise. He might even be the captain if they add him to the team.

 

[Boruto]

And he needs to waive his NMC. But who knows? Maybe Vegas wants Staal to have an experienced D-man to start the franchise. He might even be the captain if they add him to the team.

no..

 

[Cassano]

A 1st wouldn't get rid of Staal alone.

Yes, agreed.

It's either that or moving the guy in your avatar to clear a bit of salary.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Unless something changed, the Rangers didn't ask Staal to waive his NTC.

I wish that were the case, but its not happening.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

no..

It's not happening, but it's fun to think about it. Rangers without Staal is something I want to see

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I am the leader of the rebuilding/transition to a younger team faction. It's time. It's not tanking on purpose. Keep the players brought into the team in 16-17. Zibanejad. Buchnevich. Vesey. Keep Skjei. Lundqvist stays. The rest of them can go. Vesey won't get mad if Hayes is traded. He is roommates with Skjei. Trade some players this summer. Trading deadline 2018. Trade some players this time next June. The Rangers begin a new era. McDonagh and Zuccarello will be free agents in two seasons. Goodbye. I am not paying a 30 year old McDonagh and a 32 year old Zuccarello. Get back young roster players/top prospects and #1 picks. Shestyorkin will come over in two years. The main part of Girardi's buyout will be off the books in three seasons. The last 3 seasons are $1.11M Trade Marc Staal for shorter term bad contracts like Toronto did. Bad money on the Rangers books. They aren't winning now. The bad money will be off the books by the time the Rangers are legit contenders again. Draft and acquire young D. Brooks wrote the Rangers want a more mobile D. Do what the Ducks did. They took a D in one of the first two rounds for like 4-5 years in a row. It's time for significant changes.

With you 10000000000%, I'll be your first member of the rebuilding/transition to a younger team faction

*too sweet*

I'm right behind you on that train, bud. This current core, as much and as hard as they tried, did not win. Time to move on; cut the cord. This team as currently constituted isn't winning anything. Time to build the next generation New York Rangers. The name on the front of the jersey is more important than the name on the back of the jersey. Don't allow a players or two to hold the organizatition hostage in trying to win something that isn't going to happen.

Thing is, is Vigneault the right coach to lead a younger roster? I don't think so. He's loath to play the younger players the amount of time they should (have earned).

Bah, RB, you aren't the leader. Inferno and I have been there for quite some time.

In all seriousness, the bolded point above is key. A youth movement is not purposefully causing the team to become bad simply in order to move our picks up in the ranking; it's trading established vets for younger players and picks (and some dead weight) and allowing the chips to fall where they may. Will that perhaps (likely) lead to a worse record for a year or two? Sure. But you play through that and come back stronger. Classic example: the Yankees in baseball over the last couple years.

Also, it's not about getting rid of everyone over 25 just to get rid of them; it's about maximizing assets. Nobody wants to pay up for player X? Okay, you hold on to him rather than getting pennies on the dollar (e.g. Nash last summer), at least until the very last TDL before the player goes to UFA. So, if I were running this zoo:

Raanta: gone today before 3pm (due to Expansion Draft).
Stepan: gone before 7/1 (due to NTC).
Nash: gone, either now or at the TDL.
Staal: gone ASAP. If you can't make a deal (including retention/sweetener if necessary) over the next 12 months, buy him out next summer.
Zucc: gone sometime during the next two years.
McD: gone sometime during the next two years. Originally I was not as dogmatic here as RB - after all, this is a world class player in his prime (and on a sweetheart contract). But by the same token, that makes him the most valuable chip we have. You HAVE to handle/time this right, but he can be the key to the whole thing. Offered to the right team at the right time, and he should return a massive haul...
Kreider, Hayes, Miller: depends on the offers. I'm not in a rush. Make me a solid offer, and you can have them, otherwise I'm content to keep 'em for now. (Reevaluate in a year.)

Lindberg, Fast: solid organizational guys. I expect one of them to go in the expansion draft. The other can stay to provide organizational glue or go to help with a deal. No urgency here either way.

Skjei, Zibanejad, Buchnevich, Vesey: stay put, barring massive overpayment (ranked from most expensive to least).

Hank: most difficult of all. In the end, to me it comes down to what he wants. If he wants to retire a Ranger, he deserves that honor; if he wants a shot at the cup, you accommodate him.

 

[Lion Hound]

Super quiet on the Nash front. Everyone is talking about Stepan, and the potential return. I wouldn't be surprised if Nash is deal either today or at Draft.


Some thoughts on Stepan;

Still want to see him here. Still one of my favorite players. Part of the core. If...rumored 7OA and a player comes back like Domi then you have to pull that trigger.

If the aforementioned happens what is the better move?

Then trade #21 and Staal to Vegas for 2, and 3 maybe?

Or

Keep the pick and take a Brannstrom, Foote or Yamamoto if those players are still there?

 

[Irishguy42]

Let's assume we trade our 1st for them to take Staal (No retention) and Holden as the expansion draft pick... This is what our team would look like without moving Stepan:

Nash-Stepan-Zuccarello
Kreider-Zibanejad-Buchnevich
Miller-Hayes-Vesey
Fast-Lindberg-Grabner

McDonagh-Shattenkirk
Skjei-Smith
Graves-Bereglazov

Lundqvist
Raanta

That third pairing makes me hesitant. Not that I think it would be awful, but it still gives me pause.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

That third pairing makes me hesitant. Not that I think it would be awful, but it still gives me pause.

Yes, I am just looking at what we have. They will maybe sign a veteran D for the 3rd pairing to play with Bereglazov.

 

[AIexisLafreniereNYR]

Get the 7th pick and hope Miro Heiskanen is still on board

 

[Boruto]

That third pairing makes me hesitant. Not that I think it would be awful, but it still gives me pause.

Staal-Holden as our second pairing or as our third pairing as a matter of fact would make me want to throw myself in front of a train.

 

[kovazub94]

BRF, can you guarantee that this transition will take 1-2 years? What if the prospects that the team receives or drafts from the purge will not account to much? Look 5 spots up and down from where Kreider, Miller and Heyes were drafted. How many of them are better than these three? How long will it take to find out? Definitely more than 1-2 years. Team chemistry, injuries etc. The Rangers will not be getting top 5 picks.

If you are on this move everyone (but 3-4 players to build around) then I'm advocating keeping the course and don't go for a drastic roster revamping. One high profile move to get a true 1RD, smart selective adjustment to the core is what I would want to see.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

The biggest reason I don't want to go through a rebuild is because you need some assets to start the rebuild with. Having gone through 4 years without a first round pick, trading away a couple of 2nd rounders, Duclair, we need a few years to add some prospects through the draft on our own. Stay competitive, but don't trade away more picks.

Give us a 2-year window to go for it still.

Then in 2019, when Shesyorkin comes over, we go into a rebuild and take it from there. But to start a rebuild now, without any prospects worth a damn is not really a great idea.

 

[Claxton]

Staal-Holden as our second pairing or as our third pairing as a matter of fact would make me want to throw myself in front of a train.

Don't kid yourself. AV will absolutely use Staal-Holden as the 2nd pairing, and we would see the same **** in the playoffs again. Even as a 3rd pairing he's going to put them out in the last 2 minutes and **** everything up.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

That third pairing makes me hesitant. Not that I think it would be awful, but it still gives me pause.

Can't be any worse than having Staal as a part of it.

He can't skate in this league.

 

[GAGLine]

When are people going to learn that buyouts aren't cap losses, we GAIN cap space.

We gain cap space compared to keeping the player on the roster. That is 100% accurate. But those aren't the only 2 options. Now with Girardi, maybe they were the only 2 options available to Gorton. But trading the player will almost always be a better option than buying him out.

Buying out a player requires no thought, which is usually why so many people suggest it. Finding a way to get rid of a bad player without having to buy them out is a lot harder, but if the GM can do it, it will be better for the team long term.

 

[GAGLine]

If we somehow get #7 from Yotes and use it on Makar i'm going to be pissed, way too early for him imo.

I don't know who does the mocks for mynhldraft.com, but they currently have Makar at 6, Foote at 14 and Liljegren at 17.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

There should be absolutely no reason a Staal/Holden pairing would exist this year..

Holden can easily be traded pretty much anywhere with his contract, after expansion teams are going to need defense. re sign Smith and sign Shatt, no need for Holden.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I don't know who does the mocks for mynhldraft.com, but they currently have Makar at 6, Foote at 14 and Liljegren at 17.

If Liljegren is there at 17, I would seriously suggest trading up 4 spots to grab him.

 

[silverfish]

Well, I guess I didn't really think about it as deeply as I should've, and maybe I don't know as much as I think I do.

I thought LVGK could be really, really smart here, and with some savvy maneuvering, could come out of the gate hot and even compete for a playoff spot.

But, GMGM has found a much better loophole. In deals involving LVGK not selecting a certain player, the market-value of a first-round draft pick has absolutely plummeted.

Dreger is saying now that the Isles are not making a move pre-expansion, at least with a team that's not LVGK. LeBrun is reporting that LVGK has at least three-pocketed trades where they'll be getting a first-round draft pick to either select a certain player, or not selecting a certain player, pending your view-points of glasses and whether or not they are half full or half empty.

Teams are trading LVGK a first-round pick to not select the skater they value 11th most on their team.

That. Is. Absurd.

As someone who truly believes that first-round picks, especially 20th or later, are overvalued to a certain degree because they are "first-rounders", this is the polar opposite.

For instance, to put this in NYR terms, I'd be thrilled if NYR sent a 1st round pick to Vegas to select Girardi (back in the day) or Staal (now). But, imagine if NYR sends LVGK a first-round pick to not select Fast or Lindberg or Raanta or Grabner, and rather to take Holden.

That'd be such a garbage trade.

And teams are doing that.

Bravo, George McPhee.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

BRF, can you guarantee that this transition will take 1-2 years? What if the prospects that the team receives or drafts from the purge will not account to much? Look 5 spots up and down from where Kreider, Miller and Heyes were drafted. How many of them are better than these three? How long will it take to find out? Definitely more than 1-2 years. Team chemistry, injuries etc. The Rangers will not be getting top 5 picks.

If you are on this move everyone (but 3-4 players to build around) then I'm advocating keeping the course and don't go for a drastic roster revamping. One high profile move to get a true 1RD, smart selective adjustment to the core is what I would want to see.

No guarantees but death and taxes, of course.

But bear in mind that's a general guideline over a period of two years, not a blueprint to move everyone in the next week. And obviously it's subject to change based on the advancement of the kids. I mean, if Zib and Buch come in like gangbusters and are playing like legit first liners, Stepan returns a 1RD, and the team is at the top of the standings next year at the TDL, obviously that's great and you go with it. (Note that according to my plan, only Raanta and Stepan and the LVGK pick would be gone at that point.)

I'm talking a general strategy over the course of years, essentially continuing what Gorton has been pursuing since last summer. It would be consistent with my plan to have Step/Raanta go in the next two weeks, Nash at the TDL, Staal next summer, Zucc at the next TDL – is that really that crazy? It's only when you move McDonagh (and potentially Hank), that you really see a seismic shift. And that happens only when you know that the scenario above HASN'T played out (or if someone absolutely knocks your socks off with an offer in the meantime).

And remember, you're bringing in new players as all this happens; it's not like these guys all leave and then you're left with a huge, gaping void you have to fill. Sure, Stepan's gone – but who's he brought back? Have Bereglazov/Graves/Pionk stepped up? Does Gropp continue his progress from last year? What about the goalies? And don't forget new draft picks + UDFA.



EDIT: also, this:

But we have the pieces now to trade away and start the rebuild early. I dont want to waste Shesyorkin first 3 years in rebuild mode. Start it now...we likely aren't winning a cup next year by keeping the same core together. We don't need to do anything drastic, trade Step this year, get younger, get hungrier, stay competitive while retooling younger.

 

[GAGLine]

I dont know about anyone else, but maybe it's just my selfish self but I really, really don't want to trade away our 1st to get rid of staal. I want to get a damn good high draft pick for once again

I would be okay with trading our first to get rid of him if we got a first back in a trade of Stepan. I really want to see the Rangers pick in the first round again, at least once, before I die lol.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

You still have to get another player to replace him. And you want a decent player right? A top 4 player? Well on the market that could cost lets just say 4M. So 4M plus dannys 3.1 cap hit for seasons 2 and 3 = 7.1M for Dannys hit and the player to replace him. So yea we aren't gaining cap space unless we just stick a rookie in there.

You don't need a "top 4" player to replace Girardi and what he's become.. nor Staal had we bought him out instead.. You can easily find a comparable defenseman to either one of them for the savings you're getting.

 

[GAGLine]

BRF, can you guarantee that this transition will take 1-2 years? What if the prospects that the team receives or drafts from the purge will not account to much? Look 5 spots up and down from where Kreider, Miller and Heyes were drafted. How many of them are better than these three? How long will it take to find out? Definitely more than 1-2 years. Team chemistry, injuries etc. The Rangers will not be getting top 5 picks.

If you are on this move everyone (but 3-4 players to build around) then I'm advocating keeping the course and don't go for a drastic roster revamping. One high profile move to get a true 1RD, smart selective adjustment to the core is what I would want to see.

There are no guarantees that ANY approach to team building will work, but can we not agree that what we have been doing hasn't worked? This team's overriding philosophy has always been to try to win every single year, which is admirable, but what has it gotten us? 1 cup in 77 years.

There's nothing wrong with taking a step back in order to take 2 or 3 steps forward in the future. It may not work. It may backfire and we end up being terrible for a number of years, but at least we'd be trying something different than what hasn't worked in the past.

 

[GregSirico]

True Blue probably popped a vessel reading this.

But god, do I hope it's Staal + 1st to take away Holden.

I would do backflips if we could move Staal.