Speculation: Roster Building Thread DCLXXIX: Countdown to the draft (and the other draft)

[SnowFort]

Are GMs allowed to talk to each other during the trade freeze? In that case, we should know pretty early after the freeze if Stepan is on the move or not.

 

[Irishguy42]

Are GMs allowed to talk to each other during the trade freeze? In that case, we should know pretty early after the freeze if Stepan is on the move or not.

Yes. They just aren't allowed to do anything about it officially until Thursday at 8am ET

 

[Krams]

Wild thought here, if there is a deal to be made with Arizona for Stepan, would anyone take a chance at the Coyotes 2018 first rounder as opposed to the #7 pick in this draft? That may be our chance for a top 3 pick, in a great draft, to get an elite top line center.

No guarantees of course, but Arizona should be a bottom 10 team next year, even with Stepan. I'd be thrilled with Dvorak + 2018 first + another piece like Fischer. Maybe it's easier to swallow for Arizona as it's not a guarantee that it's a top 10 choice.

Absolutely would consider a 2018 1st as opposed to this year's 7th overall.

Would be fun to have a team to scoreboard watch in addition to rooting for the Rangers.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Guys, he's been in the league for a year. We have no idea what his plan for Arizona is, chill. I'm sorry he hasn't turned the Coyotes around in a calendar year. Lord knows they were a dynasty before he got in there

All we know is that he evaluates players with a different scope. I'd try to understand what that scope is. Legit all I'm saying. I'm not saying his way of evaluation is the end all be all, I'd just try to understand why he's interested in some players and not interested in others. Is that so crazy?

Chiiiiiiiiiiillllllllllllllllllllllll.

He's also made some very good trades so far.

Just because he looks at players the same way you do doesn't mean he is that much better than other GMs. Chayka has done nothing. I agree it has only been a year. I am not saying he is a bad GM. I am just saying he hasn't accomplished anything that would make him worthy of the absurd praise you give him.

If Chayka calls me about a player, I am not wondering what he knows that I don't. I am seeing how much I can fleece an inexperienced GM who puts a ton of emphasis on metrics.

 

[pld459666]

Guys, he's been in the league for a year. We have no idea what his plan for Arizona is, chill. I'm sorry he hasn't turned the Coyotes around in a calendar year. Lord knows they were a dynasty before he got in there

All we know is that he evaluates players with a different scope. I'd try to understand what that scope is. Legit all I'm saying. I'm not saying his way of evaluation is the end all be all, I'd just try to understand why he's interested in some players and not interested in others. Is that so crazy?

Chiiiiiiiiiiillllllllllllllllllllllll.

He's also made some very good trades so far.

Understood, but the Crouse deal that you mentioned I don't think was all that fascinating to be honest. He took a former 11th OA pick as payment for absorbing Bollands contract.

That's about the going rate to take a contract of that size.

 

[SnowFort]

Yes. They just aren't allowed to do anything about it officially until Thursday at 8am ET

So *technically*, a Stepan deal may already be done? (If he really will be traded this offseason..)

 

[Krams]

So *technically*, a Stepan deal may already be done? (If he really will be traded this offseason..)

I imagine most GMs are keeping in contact right now but will wait to see what happens with Vegas before they nail down specifics

 

[Irishguy42]

So *technically*, a Stepan deal may already be done? (If he really will be traded this offseason..)

It could be, yes.

I imagine most GMs are keeping in contact right now but will wait to see what happens with Vegas before they nail down specifics

Bingo

 

[silverfish]

Just because he looks at players the same way you do doesn't mean he is that much better than other GMs. Chayka has done nothing. I agree it has only been a year. I am not saying he is a bad GM. I am just saying he hasn't accomplished anything that would make him worthy of the absurd praise you give him.

If Chayka calls me about a player, I am not wondering what he knows that I don't. I am seeing how much I can fleece an inexperienced GM who puts a ton of emphasis on metrics.

The only credit I'm giving him is for having an open-mind, and using more of the tools that are at his disposal. Is that so crazy?

Has he been fleeced yet? I can't remember him being fleeced. I could be wrong. We could have differing opinions of what 'being fleeced' is.

I really don't understand why this conversation went the way it did

Understood, but the Crouse deal that you mentioned I don't think was all that fascinating to be honest. He took a former 11th OA pick as payment for absorbing Bollands contract.

That's about the going rate to take a contract of that size.

It was fascinating because it was a trade between two organizations involved in advanced metrics, which Crouse never excelled at, yet Chayka took him on anyway.

It was fascinating to me, might be a better way to word that.

 

[NYR Viper]

Sure I can agree with that. But if we got Domi and the 35th i'd call that a great trade for us... would you not? Domi scored 52 points his rookie season and then followed it up with 38 in 59 games.

But if you ask people here, that would be nowhere near enough..

I would consider that slightly below market value as Stepan is better than Brassard and Domi is a winger vs Zib being a center. If Domi was a center I'd probably think that's closer.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Absolutely would consider a 2018 1st as opposed to this year's 7th overall.

Would be fun to have a team to scoreboard watch in addition to rooting for the Rangers.

Would be nice. We could root for our Rangers while the tankers could have their fun rooting for Arizona to crash.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I trust Gorton...

If the Rangers move Stepan, it will be for a haul bigger than they got for Brassard, they value Stepan more.

 

[NYR Viper]

Domi would be an A plus pickup. But he's more suited to the wing. It's difficult in this league to trade a wing for a defenseman or a center. It seems like the least valued position in trades.

If Arizona wants to use Domi as the base of the deal that's great but there would need to be other pieces coming with him.

 

[Gardner McKay]

The only credit I'm giving him is for having an open-mind, and using more of the tools that are at his disposal. Is that so crazy?

Has he been fleeced yet? I can't remember him being fleeced. I could be wrong. We could have differing opinions of what 'being fleeced' is.

I really don't understand why this conversation went the way it did



It was fascinating because it was a trade between two organizations involved in advanced metrics, which Crouse never excelled at, yet Chayka took him on anyway.

It was fascinating to me, might be a better way to word that.

Either I wasn't clear (very possible) or you misunderstood me

Chayka hasn't been fleeced yet. He's made decent trades. Nothing great. Nothing terrible. He is inexperienced. Thats my only point. Sometimes inexperience (regardless of how intelligent a person may be) can lead to mistakes.

 

[silverfish]

Either I wasn't clear (very possible) or you misunderstood me

Chayka hasn't been fleeced yet. He's made decent trades. Nothing great. Nothing terrible. He is inexperienced. Thats my only point. Sometimes inexperience (regardless of how intelligent a person may be) can lead to mistakes.

I think you misinterpreted my posts, but a few people did, so that's on me.

I'm not saying Chayka is some genius for inquiring about Stepan. That'd be foolish. My point isn't very obvious with a guy like Stepan.

But let's say in some hypothetical world, Chayka called Gorton and asked about Holden. We know what we know about Holden. He's possibly a serviceable mid-pairing guy, but more likely utilized on your third-pair.

If Chayka called me about a guy like Holden, and seemed super eager to talk about him, and "serious" about dealing for him, I'd do my due diligence, and see if I could find out why. Not because I think Chayka is some genius, or because I value him above any other GM in the league, but because he's, likely, different. And I'm not saying different definitely good, or different definitely bad, but different.

It's a due diligence thing. That's really all I meant.

And then this conversation dipped into some I love Chayka fest.

I guess that's my own fault.

 

[NYRKING30]

I trust Gorton...

If the Rangers move Stepan, it will be for a haul bigger than they got for Brassard, they value Stepan more.

This.

Also a dependable 2 way 1st line Center is very valuable in the league. 27 and on a good contract thats locked up. If Stepan isn't traded, it is because Gorton did not get any offers that is considered acceptable. Gorts won't make a trade for the sake of making a trade.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

We heard Stepan rumors right before brassard was traded.. could it be another one of those situations?

 

[NYRKING30]

Stepan rumors have been going back since the end of last season. Right now I believe its 60/40 right now that Stepan isn't on the Rangers opening night.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I can't agree with Brooks about trading Stepan for a RHD... not when there's a perfectly acceptable one that wants to come to New York who is available for only cap space.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Wouldn't it make more sense for the Rangers to move a winger for a defenseman rather than Stepan, just saying.. NOw if you want to change the culture, or do something "big" I understand, but Rangers strength is on the wing..

 

[NYRKING30]

I can't agree with Brooks about trading Stepan for a RHD... not when there's a perfectly acceptable one that wants to come to New York who is available for only cap space.

If he wants 7x 6.5 -7, do you still want him? I'd rather give him 7.5 mill for 3 years. Me personally, when I look at a player now in a cap world, I look at their age, history,injury history, even their frames for how a player will hold up towards the end of any deals. Shattenkirk isn't a fast player, he isn't a slow skater. What would he look like in 3-4 years? My fantasy land scenario is Shattenkirk at 5x5. I don't want Shattenkirk at any costs just because he fills a whole. I hope Gorton doesn't either. If you look at the depth chart on the right side, it does appear to seem that the writing is on the wall though.

 

[bernmeister]

....

Maybe he will, maybe he won't. Reinhart isn't the answer to all our problems.

Didn't say he was answer to ALL our problems.
He is certainly part of solution, not part of problems

....But seriously... Manson is a top-pair RHD. Hayes is a 3rd line center. Has is not doing an awful lot with his size. It's easier to replace a 3rd line center than a RHD. Hayes for Manson is a great deal for us. Because you are focusing on size, and size alone.

Manson is certainly 2nd pair, and I can see him on first pair.
But let's not misrepresent and infer that he is Doughty
Hayes made great strides - no pun intended - and there is no reason to think he will not continue to improve. He may properly be behind Zib here but jumping up to 2C in the near future is quite conceivable, esp if Miller + Zib are on the same line, once Stepan goes buh-bye.
A 3C is Lindy. I like Lindy, but Hayes >>> Lindy. Get real.
Again, just speak to truth and admit there are alternate scenarios for Manson.

But... Megna is big. Size matters. You said so. Apparently nothing else matters.

I said size matters in that the adage quotes the norm.
I did not say the bold
Please do NOT take what I said out of context or I will be forced to call you out on it.

You can't win a Cup with a team that has an average age of 23. It will never happen.

Sez you
Talent and maturity at all ages, go younger, cheaper, faster when possible.

I still don't know where you get these ridiculous proposals. There's no way San Jose is offering that package for Nash.

SJ needs to add talent, that will take time. A final year, maybe 2 to put the band back together makes sense. Takes some of the burden off Thornton + Marleau. They can afford his cap hit.
No reason they would not pay the 1st and a sweetener.

They don't deserve success, the way they are talking about the proposals. They value prospects over prime players and think potential is a given. They're all bernmeisters over there. Younger, faster, bigger. Build, build, build. ....

You could do a lot worse than build x 3.
That said, there are no other bernmeisters.

 

[Krams]

Wouldn't it make more sense for the Rangers to move a winger for a defenseman rather than Stepan, just saying.. NOw if you want to change the culture, or do something "big" I understand, but Rangers strength is on the wing..

Which winger would you move for a top pairing RD? Kreider?

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

If he wants 7x 6.5 -7, do you still want him? I'd rather give him 7.5 mill for 3 years. Me personally, when I look at a player now in a cap world, I look at their age, history,injury history, even their frames for how a player will hold up towards the end of any deals. Shattenkirk isn't a fast player, he isn't a slow skater. What would he look like in 3-4 years? My fantasy land scenario is Shattenkirk at 5x5. I don't want Shattenkirk at any costs just because he fills a whole. I hope Gorton doesn't either. If you look at the depth chart on the right side, it does appear to seem that the writing is on the wall though.

It's either going to be a lot of cap space, or a major haul of assets... Which do you prefer?

Think about it... Adam Larsson returned Taylor Hall.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I think you misinterpreted my posts, but a few people did, so that's on me.

I'm not saying Chayka is some genius for inquiring about Stepan. That'd be foolish. My point isn't very obvious with a guy like Stepan.

But let's say in some hypothetical world, Chayka called Gorton and asked about Holden. We know what we know about Holden. He's possibly a serviceable mid-pairing guy, but more likely utilized on your third-pair.

If Chayka called me about a guy like Holden, and seemed super eager to talk about him, and "serious" about dealing for him, I'd do my due diligence, and see if I could find out why. Not because I think Chayka is some genius, or because I value him above any other GM in the league, but because he's, likely, different. And I'm not saying different definitely good, or different definitely bad, but different.

It's a due diligence thing. That's really all I meant.

And then this conversation dipped into some I love Chayka fest.

I guess that's my own fault.

I gotcha. I mean... for the most part I don't think there are many GM's that don't do their due diligence. That is what scouts are for. It is part of their job.

We shall see regarding Chayka. I don't think he is any different from any other GM. He is a young kid whose usage of analytics happens to be well known.