Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20: Part XXVIII

[Kovalev27]

If there was ever a guy that physically was not going to break down anytime soon it’s the absolute speed and power freak that is Chris Kreider. It’s always a chance signing ufa that they’ll breakdown sooner than you’d want but gun to my head if I had to guess a guy that will still be flying by age 33 34 it’s him.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Hank takes a buyout in the summer, returns home. Hank joins Joel to co-captain Frölunda and begin recruiting old Rangers, to form la résistance, with an eye on a preseason match up with the Rangers in 2021. Frölunda, fueled by Lias Andersson, DJ Michael Del Zotto, Adam Clendening, and a recently defected/AWOL Mats Zuccarello, defeat the Rangers 3-0 in a game no one sees because it's on at 1pm EST on a Tuesday in October.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Justin Williams , Patrick Marleau , Gary Roberts , Eric Cole .

Eric Cole is probably the best comparison IMO. I don’t see Cole’s production worth what Kreider would be paid.

Marleau is a good call yet Kreider never put up his numbers by age 29

Gary Roberts’ peak production was at 27. His stats on the decline rivaled Kreider’s output in his prime.

Williams is a good one yet weighs in at 185lbs so he’s a different player.

overall, Kreider is a risk and the ROI is stacked against his type historically.

 

[NYSPORTS]

If there was ever a guy that physically was not going to break down anytime soon it’s the absolute speed and power freak that is Chris Kreider. It’s always a chance signing ufa that they’ll breakdown sooner than you’d want but gun to my head if I had to guess a guy that will still be flying by age 33 34 it’s him.

people likely felt the same way about a P.K. Subban.

if Kreider is a slam dunk, his return on the trade market should be huge.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Its disingenuous to say Marleau had 70 point seasons and Kreider only had 53. It’s not about comparing points, it’s about maintaining their level of play. I think Kreider has a bunch of 50+ point seasons left in the tank.

it’s disingenuous not to compare points when the cost is anticipated to be so high.

 

[NYSPORTS]

60 point defenders are very very tough to replace

I agree so would play the arbitration game and look to trade him next year if if somebody doesn’t offer a solid player in return.

 

[True Blue]

Everything on my end of course is just speculation, I don't have a crystal ball, but i'm just going on what normally happens with players with his playing style. I could be completely wrong and Kreider will go into his late 30's still playing good hockey and scoring 20-30 goals a year.

I understand. I just believe that if age causes people to get slower, then how can it not affect Panarin?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If there was ever a guy that physically was not going to break down anytime soon it’s the absolute speed and power freak that is Chris Kreider. It’s always a chance signing ufa that they’ll breakdown sooner than you’d want but gun to my head if I had to guess a guy that will still be flying by age 33 34 it’s him.

You could be right, but I don't know that I'd gamble 49 million to find out.

 

[Kovalev27]

people likely felt the same way about a P.K. Subban.

if Kreider is a slam dunk, his return on the trade market should be huge.

subbans been traded twice now and nowhere near the skater or physical athlete Kreider is. Not a very good comparison at all

 

[True Blue]

But wasn't a huge part of the Panarin debate how he would hold up over 7 years? He had soft years in Russia, he trains in some youth preserving way, whatever other magic bean argument over 40 roster threads.

Certainly not an argument of mine.

There is no way to draw parallels between different players besides different eras. Kreider has the tools to be effective in front of the net, but so did JVR. Speed withers, but then there is Mike Gartner. There are arguments either way, but I hate the player comparisons.

I get it. My point is that if people are going to spout that age gets to all players and they slow down, it cannot be done by magically exempting other players that they like from the equation.

 

[NYSPORTS]

subbans been traded twice now and nowhere near the skater or physical athlete Kreider is. Not a very good comparison at all

yeah I know, Kreider is omnipotent.

 

[Kovalev27]

Eric Cole is probably the best comparison IMO. I don’t see Cole’s production worth what Kreider would be paid.

Marleau is a good call yet Kreider never put up his numbers by age 29

Gary Roberts’ peak production was at 27. His stats on the decline rivaled Kreider’s output in his prime.

Williams is a good one yet weighs in at 185lbs so he’s a different player.

overall, Kreider is a risk and the ROI is stacked against his type historically.

actually the truly elite skaters of the league historically play well into their mid 30s. At the least. Concussions have derailed some of those guys but that’s also not in Kreider’s history.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

At this stage, Kreider would need to leave a ton of money on the table to sign here, so I’m 99% sure he’s going to be traded

He’d be doing himself a huge disservice to not at least go into UFA this summer and get an idea of offers

 

[NYSPORTS]

actually the truly elite skaters of the league historically play well into their mid 30s. At the least. Concussions have derailed some of those guys but that’s also not in Kreider’s history.

He skates fast yet doesn’t the agility of a Crosby or the hands of a Marleau. He has better hands than Carl Hagelin and is larger. That’s about it.

 

[Kovalev27]

7 mil a year on an 83 plus mil cap is hardly a big deal anymore. This isn’t 2013. The top guys make 10 11 plus and that will climb. 7 mil to Kreider 8 mil to Trouba locking up a 25 year old. Those don’t bother me at all.

it’s giving mid level guys like Strome Buchnevich even Skjei 5 plus mil to eat up cap That bothers me. I like Skjei but he didn’t earn that contract yet. We jumped the gun there thinking he’d be a star. He’s a solid 2nd pairing guy. Really you need to pay your best players and then draft well and fill in the rest with your young elcs. Kreider is a top line player. Top pp player (best net front guy in the league) those are the guys you pay. You don’t pay Strome and Buchnevich 5 mil each to be ok players replace them with your you elc talent

 

[haveandare]

That Zucker return has some frightening implications for Kreider. Sign this guy.

 

[Kovalev27]

He skates fast yet doesn’t the agility of a Crosby or the hands of a Marleau. He has better hands than Carl Hagelin and is larger. That’s about it.

he’s literally the best net front guy in the league. Best deflector of pucks. He’s not a dangler if that’s what you mean. But to say he doesn’t have hands? I’ll take that considering we’ve got plenty of danglers on the roster

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

7 mil a year on an 83 plus mil cap is hardly a big deal anymore. This isn’t 2013. The top guys make 10 11 plus and that will climb. 7 mil to Kreider 8 mil to Trouba locking up a 25 year old. Those don’t bother me at all.

It’s been all but confirmed at this point the team isn’t going to offer 7x7 to him though

If he wants to stay it’s going to be on a discount where he’s sacrificing anywhere from 8-13 million dollars

 

[NYSPORTS]

he’s literally the best net front guy in the league. Best deflector of pucks. He’s not a dangler if that’s what you mean. But to say he doesn’t have hands? I’ll take that considering we’ve got plenty of danglers on the roster

He played in one all-star game b/c the real all-star didn’t attend. Why is that?

He’s going to get paid a fortune and I hope Glen Sather is too busy on a golf course smoking cigars to pick up the phone and insist on resigning Kreider for a fortune.

 

[True Blue]

The extremely low number of players similar to Kreider who were good well into their 30s is a good indicator. I said it last week: If someone can give me 3 recent examples of players similar to Kreider who were as impactful at 35 as they were at 29, change my mind.

Joe Thorton, Joe Pavelski. Patrice Bergeron. To start. Defensively, look at Burns & Chara. Not quite 35 yet, but Blake Wheeler is looking good. Not quite 35 year, but at 33 Radulov is looking pretty good.

No one believes that Kreider will be every bit as effective at 35 as he is today. But he certainly has it in him to carry his play over most of his contract and into his 30s. And sure, the last couple of years he may well be a third line player. Fine.

I have maintained all along that there is a path to keep him. Do I think that he will be traded? Yeah, though for one reason or another lately I have been getting doubts. But the conversation need not boil down to what happens when he is 35. There is a rather large part of it that should be what happens over the next 4 or so years.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

That Zucker return has some frightening implications for Kreider. Sign this guy.

I think most here would agree the Zucker return was actually encouraging...?

 

[aufheben]

I think most here would agree the Zucker return was actually encouraging...?

I wouldn’t. They got #26OA and a good prospect. That’s basically what this board wants for Kreider except Zucker wasn’t a rental. Galchenyuk is terrible, even if he turns it around in Minnesota, he’s a UFA could sign somewhere else. Maybe Kreider is that much better than Zucker that it evens out but I don’t know.

 

[True Blue]

Marleau had 6 seasons over 70 points. Kreider never even hit 55. Not at all in the same tier

That's not the debate. The debate was being as effective in their 30s. So Krieder would not need to him Marleau's level of play, but his own. And frankly, Kreider is in a lot better shape.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

7 mil a year on an 83 plus mil cap is hardly a big deal anymore. This isn’t 2013. The top guys make 10 11 plus and that will climb. 7 mil to Kreider 8 mil to Trouba locking up a 25 year old. Those don’t bother me at all.

it’s giving mid level guys like Strome Buchnevich even Skjei 5 plus mil to eat up cap That bothers me. I like Skjei but he didn’t earn that contract yet. We jumped the gun there thinking he’d be a star. He’s a solid 2nd pairing guy. Really you need to pay your best players and then draft well and fill in the rest with your young elcs. Kreider is a top line player. Top pp player (best net front guy in the league) those are the guys you pay. You don’t pay Strome and Buchnevich 5 mil each to be ok players replace them with your you elc talent

If the plan is to boot those dudes, fine.

I don't think the FO will. 7 mill in a vaccumn is not a big deal, but it is when we have some big contracts that will be here for a while and a bevy of ELC talent who will all be up for a raise within the next 3 years.

 

[Thirty One]

That's what Callahan about Lundqvist. He has a hard time seeing Lundqvist being 1B and the mentor. He could start someone. San Jose? He is boys with Erik Karlsson. SJ buys out Jones and signs Lundqvist in the summer. Doug Wilson has to move on from Jones. Lundqvist's sister lives in San Jose too.

Carp lists Kreider, Fast, Strome, DeAngelo, Georgiev, Skjei & Buchnevich as being available.

Chris would be dumb to take a discount to stay in New York. Shattenkirk took a discount and the Rangers dumped him after just two seasons. Some people said there is no way the Rangers will buy out Shattenkirk after taking 4 years in NY over 7 years somewhere else. We saw what happened.

Everyone expects Kreider to get 7 x 7. The Rangers would like to keep Fast but they will listen to offers.

Interesting quote from Carp:
"Will he change his mind and ask to be traded? If so, is there actually a team to which he’d waive his no-move clause?"

Imagine he asks to be traded but refuses to waive his no-trade clause? The f*** is he talking about?