Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20: Part XXVIII

[The Crypto Guy]

I think we should be speculating more on what kind of contract Kreider will accept rather than his possible trade return.

Read Carp today and am reminded that for most of the season he wrote that a Kreider trade was fait accompli. His tune has changed 180 degrees.

Good after we trade him he can re-sign with us in the offseason if he loves it here so much. We can discuss his contract then.

Kreider is good as gone.

 

[Trxjw]

I think the probability is higher that Kreider is moved than it is he stays. I know the pundits are pushing that narrative now that he's scoring and is a factor on the ice but there are so many factors involved in keeping Kreider that I'm sure the Rangers are just doing their diligence. Sometimes getting a guy closer to the deadline can create a sense of urgency in contract negotiations and perhaps Gorton feels like he can apply pressure by saying, "This is our offer and there's a hard deadline to accept or you'll get moved." It's one thing to walk away from an offer in the off season and quite another when you have to go in and say goodbye to your friends if you say no. The question is if it's $12-15m worth of incentive.

Then you look beyond just Kreider and his contract and you can see all of the moving parts. Does Hank retire or get moved? That changes things drastically for next year. Is the market changing for potential Kreider replacements? Are new teams getting into the mix? Is the market for other Rangers' players picking up? Do they feel close on a big deal that would require them to have cap flexibility in the off-season?

So much more complicated than "keep Kreider yes or no?"

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

At the same time, wouldn’t it be surprising if Kreider didn’t get significantly more on a longer deal than Zucc got? Zucc got 6m per for 5 years. Is Kreider really only getting 6x6?

I wouldn’t be surprised if Kreider got 8.5m per for 7 years. Rule of thumb, take the worst case scenario and add a lot to it. People said that Hayes wasn’t worth 5m per for a 5 year deal, get got 7x7. Zucc wasn’t worth 4m per for 3 years, he got 6m and 5 years, and so forth.

Not saying that the players were worth those contracts, but NHL GMs are generally willing to overpay.

Generally speaking, and I know it's hard to gauge year to year, but Kreider should get a similar deal, possibly a bit less, then what Hayes got. There is that center premium. Hayes was also 2 years younger then Kreider going into UFA.

 

[broadwayblue]

That's if the market is willing to offer 7 years. It's all been speculation to this point. Unless he and his agent have knowledge that hes guaranteed to be offered 7 years.

All it takes is one. There will almost assuredly be one.

 

[kinger8998]

Yeah, Kreider is faster and his game is built on speed to a degree that Simmonds wasn't, so any decrease in speed will affect his game more than it did Simmonds.

And I don't know if he will or he won't, but it's not something I'm eager to bet on.

Well, it depends on what you look at. IF he and Simmonds decrease at the same rate, Kreider will still be faster than Simmonds, which will make him more prodcutive in todays NHL cosndiering he won't forget his other tools he has.

But if you're expecting him to drop from his current level (which was above Simmonds at 28), all the way down ot Simmonds now, then yes, that would be awful.

I get what you're trying to sya about it affecting his game more, but with Kreider I wouldn't expect as much of a drop off or as soon, considering he started his career later and is a physical beast, from all accounts

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

All it takes is one. There will almost assuredly be one.

It takes one team where he wants to play. From what we've heard about his NTC he doesn't want to play in Canada.

 

[Ola]

Generally speaking, and I know it's hard to gauge year to year, but Kreider should get a similar deal, possibly a bit less, then what Hayes got. There is that center premium. Hayes was also 2 years younger then Kreider going into UFA.

Yeah and I think the biggest factor is ultimately how picky the player is regarding which team he is going to. If he is looking at 4-5 attractive locations and take a solid offer the price could be significantly lower than if he was willing to sign anywhere.

 

[BBKers]

Kreider will get 7 x 7 as a UFA on the open market. At least. So $49 M is his "magic" number. What is he willing to discount the NYR? This is business. If Rangers offer a 6-year contract - they then need to be closer to $8M. Such is the math... Send him home to Boston where he can likely compete for a SC ring right away. Some crazed GM will pony up his cash Bonanza come July 1. They always do...I however think we can get a real good return here though. A first and a good player. That 1st is then packaged for another good young fwd piece at the TDL. Qualify Strome or give hima 3 year deal. Give ADA a 4 year deal. Trade Fast at TDL. Look into trades with Georgiev (if Hank stays), Buch, Lias, Howden and Skjei this offseason if they ARE DEEMED AS GOOD HOCKEY TRADES. If they are not, then hold on to them 4 now. Buyout the Cyclops Octopus.

 

[kinger8998]

Kreider will get 7 x 7 as a UFA on the open market. At least. So $49 M is his "magic" number. What is he willing to discount the NYR? This is business. If Rangers offer a 6-year contract - they then need to be closer to $8M. Such is the math... Send him home to Boston where he can likely compete for a SC ring right away. Some crazed GM will pony up his cash Bonanza come July 1. They always do...I however think we can get a real good return here though. A first and a good player. That 1st is then packaged for another good young fwd piece at the TDL. Qualify Strome or give hima 3 year deal. Give ADA a 4 year deal. Trade Fast at TDL. Look into trades with Georgiev (if Hank stays), Buch, Lias, Howden and Skjei this offseason if they ARE DEEMED AS GOOD HOCKEY TRADES. If they are not, then hold on to them 4 now. Buyout the Cyclops Octopus.

This is true, Free Agency can often go crazy...but we've seen a vast difference in the spending of GM's recently as opposed to the 2016 Free Agency. GM's now lean towards overspending on depth as opposed to top guys

The Rangers spent on Panarin, but held a firm stance at how far they could go. Panarin wanted to play here, and while he made his money, he left $$$ on table.

In 2017, we held a firm stance on Shattenkirk and he took a disocunt to come home. Yes, we all know that didn't work out, but we did not go too lucrative and he left money.

Kreider has openly expressed his desire to stay. I think if we go 6 years he can be had at 7, or even 6.75. The pull of NYR is real, and when guys want to play here, even as far back as Richards, they left money and still managed to get paid. GM's have become smarter sicne Ladd, Backes and Eriksson. Some will still throw money, but I wouldn't doubt if the combination of GM's only overpaying by hundreds of thousands insstead of millions as well as Kreids desire to stay would result in him re-signing

 

[True Blue]

I've thought this since his ill-timed holdout.

I don't believe for one second that will somehow factor into the equation. Gorton targeted DeAngelo. Quinn invested a lot of time in him. I doubt that now that they are seeing the fruits of the labors that they will trade him.

Again, there are only so many names in the last 10 years that are doing what he is on the verge of doing. And frankly has been doing for a year.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Igor starts again. Henrik now week-to-week with starts. This is the new normal.

 

[True Blue]

Kreider is good as gone.

Only the Sith deal in absolutes.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I have no doubt Kreider will probably get multiple 7x7 offers on July 1st

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Igor starts again. Henrik now week-to-week with starts. This is the new normal.

All part of the plan, Hank will be begging for a trade by deadline, he can't still think this is a good idea.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

If we trade Hank, there is no reason not to buy-out Staal. Trade Kreider, Fast, Strome, Hank. Re-sign Deangelo. Sign Georgie. Buy-Out Staal. Give Lemieux a short term deal. Play Rykov/Hajek in Staal's place until Miller is ready.

 

[NYSPORTS]

I have no doubt Kreider will probably get multiple 7x7 offers on July 1st

and i’ll venture to say, unless he’s paired with Crosby, this current year will be the best statistically of his career.

 

[Kovalev27]

Igor starts again. Henrik now week-to-week with starts. This is the new normal.

and unfortunately for hank he doesn’t play well without a rhythm which will hurt his game even further than age has. Not exactly fair to him but it is what it is. I’ve said this but if he wants to continue to play in this league past next year he needs to leave now. If he wants to retire a Ranger after next season then that’s fine and he can Figure that out with management. I can’t see him wanting to sit on the bench next year and retire. Just don’t see it

Marty Brodeur left N.J. never thought I’d see that but he wanted to play and if you want to keep playing you go where there’s a net to defend

 

[LaffyTaffy]

I am shocked at the lack of Strome rumors. Are we actually considering keeping him?

 

[Fitzy]

I am shocked at the lack of Strome rumors. Are we actually considering keeping him?

He's not a UFA so we can kick that con down the road to the offseason.

 

[NYSPORTS]

All part of the plan, Hank will be begging for a trade by deadline, he can't still think this is a good idea.

who is to say somebody would want him.

His non-verbal body language after many goals is awful. He looks to the sky as if in disbelief that he should have made the save. How appealing it that? It’s like an admission he’s old, can see the puck yet can’t make the save.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Fake New Bob wishcasting it up in here again...

 

[True Blue]

I am shocked at the lack of Strome rumors. Are we actually considering keeping him?

He does enable the coacihng staff to have ZBad & Panarin be on separate lines. My guess is that unless Gorton recieves an unbelievable offer for him, Strome will stick around at least until Chytil can show that he is ready for full time 2C duties. Maybe even past that as the ability to play wing and center and slide around the middle two lines is a pretty valuable thing. I get the feeling that Strome will take less to stay with Rangers.

 

[Thirty One]

who is to say somebody would want him.

His non-verbal body language after many goals is awful. He looks to the sky as if in disbelief that he should have made the save. How appealing it that? It’s like an admission he’s old, can see the puck yet can’t make the save.

And after the win last night, he took his hand and smacked Shesterkin right on his hand. Straight up abuse.

 

[Tawnos]

I am shocked at the lack of Strome rumors. Are we actually considering keeping him?

I don't think there's much of a chance we move him.

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

Yeah, Kreider is faster and his game is built on speed to a degree that Simmonds wasn't, so any decrease in speed will affect his game more than it did Simmonds.

And I don't know if he will or he won't, but it's not something I'm eager to bet on.

Kreider's game is based on net front presence as much as speed, which shouldn't be effected by aging as much. Another way to look at it is that if/when Kreider loses a step, he'll still be as fast as everybody else, so it won't effect his game as much.