Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20: Part XXVI

[Ola]

A lot of talk about what the return will be for the guys on the trade board, that also includes a fair share of bickering about who is “right”.

But I think that misses the target a bit. The price for a UFA rental is to a large extent decided by supply and demand. And those two factors are anything but constant. Some years there are a handful of really desperate teams, other years you have a couple of content powerhouses that have won recently and know that new shots are around the corner.

And even if those things might be somewhat predictable, there is certainly a significant share of unknown. Take STL for example. My best bet is that they are content, a bit worried about Pieterangelo, and won’t be willing to ant up. Don’t think it’s worth the price from an financial POV. Interest is high, much more downside in sucking soon than not winning again in the near future for them. BUT, then you have the YOLO element. They could go f*** it, we want another one.

So I don’t think the question on what return Kreider will bring or Skjei would fetch or Strome could obtain really is about worth vs some kind of objective scale setting out what a team might be prepared to offer. We can draw up the raw frame work, Kreider will fetch more than a 2nd and less than a top 5-10 prospect. But what the return will be in-between those two parameters is just very random.

 

[Avery16]

FWIW, Blues beat writer Jeremy Rutherford also opined in a mailbag segment on the Athletic that Kreider could cost the Blues a 1st and a prospect, without speculating on which prospect. He later retweeted the link to Lebrun's piece.

 

[Ardi44]

None of the guys moved as pending ufas did I doubt the org for letting go. Not one. Not cally not zucc Hayes etc. but Kreider will be a horrible move that sets us back another few years. Mark my words we’ll regret it. It will hurt Mika’s game. Hurt our powerplay hurt our left side mortally hurt our possession metrics which are already bad. Leave us softer and slower and without a net front presence whatsoever in the lineup. When teams are desperate to get a player like this and they are, you don’t let them go.

The Kreider trade talk might as well be tank talk and not just for this year. Probably for multiple years. Be lucky if Mika even wants to stay here when his contract is up if this is what we’re going to continue to do and tear down around him

Right, and thats been my biggest fear. At a certain point you need to start pivoting away from the rebuild. Can only acquire so many picks. If he wants an absurd contract, you let him go.

 

[broadwayblue]

Right, and thats been my biggest fear. At a certain point you need to start pivoting away from the rebuild. Can only acquire so many picks. If he wants an absurd contract, you let him go.

Agreed. But I think most people believe this is the final year of the rebuild. And even saying that, I don't believe we are looking to trade these guys predominantly for picks.

 

[DutchShamrock]

I think that package for Pageau is pretty hefty.

I guess I was ignoring the upgraded conditions but I found it interesting that no one else was landing a 1st without conditions or without more pieces going to the playoff team, which the pageau trade had both.

I take all of these predictions with a huge grain of salt.

 

[Thirty One]

I want a Colorado/St. Louis bidding war.

 

[kovazub94]

I want a Colorado/St. Louis bidding war.

And Boston with Pittsburgh, and everyone else too to drive the price up.

 

[tbassler]

I doubt Colorado will get in a bidding war for Kreider.

Many people here have been saying Jost + a 1st for Kreidr is sufficient. Jost is really underwhelming right now. I am Ranger fan living near Denver so I watch all their games too.

I think most fans here will be happy to see Jost go. Be careful what you wish for. Jost has moments, but not many.

 

[Mikos87]

Prior to Shero getting fired, I posted about how he did the Rangers a favor by moving out Hall so early. Kreider is the piece at the deadline. He is the top guy to get. It wasn't until the Hall trade that I thought the Rangers would be able to land 3 pieces for Chris.

It all depends on who gets him, but eight teams means bidding war. Kyrou and a 1st isn't 3 pieces, but the quality is higher with that twosome than you'd see elsewhere. STL moved out Bokk without much concern to upgrade a part of their line-up that they didn't need this year, but acts as an insurance policy against losing their captain. They gave up Fabbri to do him a solid.

STL's window is open and they are going to gun it for the next few years.

Their defense is going to be fine. They've got another piece in Perunivich who is going to be a Tory Krug like player (kid's a winner). I would say that's the prospect that's probably off-limits. I would love Robert Thomas, another winner. But no way they move him.

Kyrou will slot in very nicely on the Rangers. I'd go as far as saying he becomes the Rangers best forward prospect after Kakko. He's a top 6 option next to Bread on the right side with Strome right away imo.

 

[Mikos87]

I want a Colorado/St. Louis bidding war.

They have to go through each other to make it, and the west is weak this year. If that's your 2nd round match-up, then you might be looking at the team that's got the best odds out of the best.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Regarding the concerns over when the rebuilding starts: I'm not too concerned about Gorton making adds. He made two huge moves last summer. He's being consistent, parting with costly UFAs, making space for the next wave, and building up his bankroll.

So many teams are having tremendously disappointing seasons. I really see us being players throughout the league as teams reshape their rosters. We have the cheap, cost controlled assets to help cap crunch teams. The chess moves for the expansion draft will start happening.

I can really see us being in a spot to land Gaudreau. $6.75m, subpar year, left wing, team is struggling and Tkachuk is the top LW going forward.

I'm not a blind believer in Gorton. But I do think this is the plan. He never struck me as a slow, draft-centric builder. He's going to make a splash with our assets, just a matter of timing.

 

[Avery16]

Larry's non-scoop of the week:

https://nypost.com/2020/02/03/marti...medium=site buttons&utm_campaign=site buttons

 

[Thirty One]

Larry's non-scoop of the week:

https://nypost.com/2020/02/03/martin-brodeur-knows-henrik-lundqvists-rangers-struggle-all-too-well/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site buttons&utm_campaign=site buttons

“I would have waived it if I was asked,” Martin Brodeur told The Post Monday morning, for the first time revealing his thoughts leading into that 2014 deadline. “But Lou [Lamoriello] never asked me.
“For the first time, I was in the position of not playing much. I was fighting to get playing time. If there was a team that wanted me that I thought I could help win, I’d have gone.

The ego on this guy. Had a .901 SV% when the league average was .914. The Devils for some reason played him 39 games. He's wondering if there was a team that would have played him more? Lol. He was a free agent that summer and no one wanted him except as a backup when they had a long-term injury mid-season.

 

[Mikos87]

The Bruins, very quietly, moved on from Ritchie and Backes. Two big power forwards, RH shots, with size earlier this year.

Why? They couldn't skate fast enough to keep up with the game. The Bruins had a very rough 6 weeks before getting it together. They are still short a man or two upfront. Their coach knows how to get the most out of the fill-in guys, but they need a constant upfront that can help.

That could be both or either Fast or Kreider.

The player you want from them is Jack Studnika. He's a Boone Jenner like asset imo.

 

[Avery16]

“I would have waived it if I was asked,” Martin Brodeur told The Post Monday morning, for the first time revealing his thoughts leading into that 2014 deadline. “But Lou [Lamoriello] never asked me.
“For the first time, I was in the position of not playing much. I was fighting to get playing time. If there was a team that wanted me that I thought I could help win, I’d have gone.

The ego on this guy. Had a .901 SV% when the league average was .914. The Devils for some reason played him 39 games. He's wondering if there was a team that would have played him more? Lol. He was a free agent that summer and no one wanted him except as a backup when they had a long-term injury mid-season.

I'll never forget when he said the goaltending rivalry between NYR and NJ was "more interesting" with Hank, an obvious slap to Richter. He's never had any class, as his brother could tell you. I was sickened when the Blues hired him.

 

[bl02]

None of the guys moved as pending ufas did I doubt the org for letting go. Not one. Not cally not zucc Hayes etc. but Kreider will be a horrible move that sets us back another few years. Mark my words we’ll regret it. It will hurt Mika’s game. Hurt our powerplay hurt our left side mortally hurt our possession metrics which are already bad. Leave us softer and slower and without a net front presence whatsoever in the lineup. When teams are desperate to get a player like this and they are, you don’t let them go.

The Kreider trade talk might as well be tank talk and not just for this year. Probably for multiple years. Be lucky if Mika even wants to stay here when his contract is up if this is what we’re going to continue to do and tear down around him

Totally see what you're saying. If JG is able to trade Skjei and another smaller contract (getting rid of Staal and Smith is a fantasy unless you wanna attach assets). We probably have more comparable replacements for someone like Skjei coming than we do for a Kreider. Just not sure if the Rangers and CK are gonna be able to come to an agreement for lets say 5/6 years at around 6 million per if they haven't even started any contract discussions??? Losing him for nothing should not be an option especially when he could be the number one trade asset in the league at the TDL.

 

[Avery16]

Imagine if the Blues and Bruins got in a bidding war for a Kreider Fast package.

 

[zukeisgone]

Anderson possibly concussed for TML price for Georgie going up

 

[mas0764]

I doubt Colorado will get in a bidding war for Kreider.

Many people here have been saying Jost + a 1st for Kreidr is sufficient. Jost is really underwhelming right now. I am Ranger fan living near Denver so I watch all their games too.

I think most fans here will be happy to see Jost go. Be careful what you wish for. Jost has moments, but not many.

In my book Colorado does not get Kreider without Newhook coming back, period. Won't include him? Ok. No Kreider.

I'll deal him to St Louis.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Anderson possibly concussed for TML price for Georgie going up

Supply and/or demand.

 

[mas0764]

Right, and thats been my biggest fear. At a certain point you need to start pivoting away from the rebuild. Can only acquire so many picks. If he wants an absurd contract, you let him go.

Of course “at some point” you have to start building, but why is that point now on Kreider?

We still lack a surefire #1 D, we still lack a young superstar forward to partner with Kakko. We are hoping Kravtsov pans out, we are hoping Chytil pans out, but Zibanejad and Panarin, while worth having, probably will not be superstars by time this team is ready to dominate year-in, year-out, in about 3-4 seasons. They will be on the downside. Obviously you can’t “trade everything” but we aren’t. We still need long term cornerstones. I’d say we need at least one more top-line forward prospect and ideally another top 6 forward piece as well.

The defense may lack a #1 but it has such depth I think you can hope to survive there.

The point is, I’d like to keep Kreider too but the pieces we lack are way more vital to building a “dynasty” than what Kreider brings.

 

[Vitto79]

Anderson possibly concussed for TML price for Georgie going up

Also heard Kapanen and Keefe dont like each other much

Georgiev and Fast for Kapanen and Bracco

 

[NYR Viper]

Trading Kreider doesn’t mean the team needs to use that pick acquired to draft an 18 year old. It’s a higher value piece they can use to target a specific piece the team feels they want here long term in the offseason.

 

[East Coast Bias]

In my book Colorado does not get Kreider without Newhook coming back, period. Won't include him? Ok. No Kreider.

I'll deal him to St Louis.

you’re not getting Newhook.

it’s fine to say I want the demands set high but this is how this place always is disappointed. People setting wildly unrealistic expectations and then melting down at returns.

 

[Mac n Gs]

you’re not getting Newhook.

it’s fine to say I want the demands set high but this is how this place always is disappointed. People setting wildly unrealistic expectations and then melting down at returns.

You'd think that we would've learned after the whole Point/Sergachev for McDonagh bit, but...