Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20: Part XXVI
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He is funny in interviews:
I think emotions went a little overboard for him after the last game though in that tournament. Don't remember the exact details, but...
Amazing Kreiderman
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- Apr 11, 2011
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Kyrou is a roster player at this point. You're not getting a roster player plus a 1st for Kreider
Amazing Kreiderman
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So you're saying a typical European is small and soft? So glad we are still using the same stereotypes
Amazing Kreiderman
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haohmaru
boomshakalaka
And yet the truth is that he really is the more valuable player. I think he gets a 1st + if that's what the Rangers are looking for.
Amazing Kreiderman
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Ghost of jas
Unsatisfied
Disagree. If Kreider is traded, he’s returning more than Hayes did last year.
SA16
Sixstring
You can call it whatever you want but it's also a verifiable fact that the average NA forward plays a grittier game than the average European forward. Not saying anything about size and purely using hits as a proxy since that's all we have NA forwards average 4.9 hits/60 and European forwards average 4.1 hits/60 at 5v5. I don't know what's so controversial about that too it makes sense to me. More Europeans play on the big rink than North Americans (which is some in EUR to essentially zero in NA) and that game is more suited to a different style play that doesn't translate the same.
and no that doesn’t mean one style is better than another, it doesn’t mean that all X are are Y, it doesn’t even mean there’s a huge difference because there isn’t. But there is a pretty clear difference that can be seen in the data. The average European forward player a less physical game than the average North American forward and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
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- Aug 5, 2010
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Why not? At the very least this is a different market where Kreider is #1 option for forwards whereas Hayes last year was 4-5 if I recall correctly.
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
The Rangers need to see the writing on the wall here - this team isn't making the playoffs and this Ghidorah goalie system isn't doing ANY of the goalies any favors. If you're trading Georgiev, start him so the rest of the league has a better idea of what they're getting.
Or, you are seeing selection bias in action. Bottom 6 forwards, or 3rd pairing defenders - whom are a lot of the guys assigned to the more physical roles - just happen to come from NA more because it's less likely for a European to come over to NA to try and make it. Players who play that type of role are less likely to try and make it in a foreign country, speaking a foreign language, without some more gold at the end of the rainbow. They aren't going to toil in the NHL for an undetermined time just waiting for an opportunity on the 4th line. So when a spot opens for a role on an NHL club, organizations are much more likely to bring in someone who is already in the NA and familiar with NA systems and ice.
SA16
Sixstring
Nope. No 3rd pairing defenders as I only looked at forwards. Not so many bottom 6 forwards as I put a TOI filter on the group. In any case if I filter for just the top 93 point scorers at forward - so 1st liners - the results are similar.
WeRa
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- Nov 2, 2017
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IMO 1st round pick 20 + Klim Kostin for CK would be absolutely fine..
Craig Custance has another interesting feature at The Athletic. He talked to 22 player agents about league issues like which GM is easy to work with and which GM is unreasonable, NHL players in the Olympics, Bettman and Fehr.
Jeff Gorton made the unreasonable GM list. Bob Murray is the worst. The agents gave Custance a few comments.
I like the Gorton comments. He should be tough.
One more question was which teams are more likely to land on the no trade list. Limited no trade list.
Winnipeg is first.
It seems some players include the Rangers on their no trade list.
The NHL Agent Poll: Agents have their say on GMs, Gary...
Jeff Gorton made the unreasonable GM list. Bob Murray is the worst. The agents gave Custance a few comments.
I like the Gorton comments. He should be tough.
One more question was which teams are more likely to land on the no trade list. Limited no trade list.
Winnipeg is first.
It seems some players include the Rangers on their no trade list.
The NHL Agent Poll: Agents have their say on GMs, Gary...
WeRa
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IMO this is a different situation - CK is number one on this year's trade market but KH wasn't. If we are talking about the trade with the Blues, I'd preffer Klim Kostin (20 years) who has only played 4 games in the NHL. Jordan Kyrou (21 years) played 31 games in the NHL and 63 games in the AHL for last two seasons. He is not exactly a roster player like for example younger Robert Thomas is... On the other side the Blues have a problem after Tarasenko's injury.. they can do crazy things, if they want the Cup again.
I'm really curious about CK's price.
Beer League Sniper
Homeless Man's Rick Nash
Gorton seems like a guy that takes emotion out of the equation. I can see how that rubs agents the wrong way. Almost every player we've traded away (or moved on from) has gotten similar treatment to what Kreider is experiencing.
Right now, it benefits the Rangers to not engage in contract talks. The real decision point is the trade deadline, so it benefits the team to have as much information as possible (incoming trade offers, player performance) before having to make a decision. It's a delicate dance. I'm sure Gorton knows exactly what he wants for Kreider. Assuming a team doesn't meet the lofty price tag, there's probably a sliding scale of what Kreider would need to sign for to make trading him "not worth it." It's better for the team to get an idea of exactly what kind of package they'd be giving up to re-sign Kreider.
Of course, that sucks for the agent. Gorton is essentially stonewalling him, while at the same time leaking to clowns like Brooks that the Rangers might just re-sign Kreider in order to pump up his trade value. It's just a business, but I can see how agent and player could feel like pawns. Because they are.
Right now, it benefits the Rangers to not engage in contract talks. The real decision point is the trade deadline, so it benefits the team to have as much information as possible (incoming trade offers, player performance) before having to make a decision. It's a delicate dance. I'm sure Gorton knows exactly what he wants for Kreider. Assuming a team doesn't meet the lofty price tag, there's probably a sliding scale of what Kreider would need to sign for to make trading him "not worth it." It's better for the team to get an idea of exactly what kind of package they'd be giving up to re-sign Kreider.
Of course, that sucks for the agent. Gorton is essentially stonewalling him, while at the same time leaking to clowns like Brooks that the Rangers might just re-sign Kreider in order to pump up his trade value. It's just a business, but I can see how agent and player could feel like pawns. Because they are.
NYR Viper
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Then you add a nice 18 year old prospect at the draft and look to make a move as it presents itself. It's the flexibility that adding a 1st round pick provides both now and moving forward.
I know this. The more nights Shesterkin is in the press box or on the bench the less likely it is for us to win hockey games. All that kid does is win everywhere and he should be playing over both hank and Georgiev he’s far better than both
They drove play for the most part again?
They were a waste land on defense, in goal and on the PK, but they played pretty well 5v5 and scored 3 PPGs.
The three areas where they struggled are areas where he has little impact or no impact. This roster isn't going to stay the same over the next 3-5 years. That isn't to say that Kreider is easy to replace (he isn't) but other teams have been able to win with out Kreider, why can't we?
DutchShamrock
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NY is a funny thing. The Rangers are maybe the 6th most popular team in town. Celebrities walk the street, people can blend in. But the pressure is real because we have seen absolute studs wither here and rebound once they leave. I'm happy those players recognize the issue. If it isn't a good fit, good to know before the deal can even start instead of after we lose the assets.
And a bunch of you need to pump the brakes on the Kreider returns. We may have the best rental but no one feels forced to make a move. The days of paying a premium to add a top line talent are done. Its about complimenting your roster, not overhauling.
1st plus a non-core roster player or decent prospect is a huge get.
And a bunch of you need to pump the brakes on the Kreider returns. We may have the best rental but no one feels forced to make a move. The days of paying a premium to add a top line talent are done. Its about complimenting your roster, not overhauling.
1st plus a non-core roster player or decent prospect is a huge get.
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