Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20: Part XXVI

[wafflepadsave]

Even better make the trade and switch dressing rooms lol

Or even in between periods.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I understand not wanting to play in New York. A few years ago when Shea Weber was shopping himself, he said thanks but no thanks to the Rangers. Too big.

New York is not for everyone.

Yea

New York is a place that by it's very nature is going to give someone a fairly strong opinion; it's difficult to remain neutral.

Ironically enough, when talking to most players, it's typically not the "size" or "busyness" of the city that causes hesitation. In many cases it's the cost of living, and the housing arrangements. If you've always grown up in a house, the concept of being in a condo/apartment 50 stories into the sky can be a like landing on another planet. Then you factor in what you're paying for said domicile and it's not for everyone.

But, I would say that most players have an interest in playing in NYC. And ultimately, most is what you're shooting for in pro sports.

As I’ve gotten older, (cue the jokes), NYC interests me a lot less. Due to my work travels, I’ve come to despise LI. And, I prefer traveling south and west.

 

[Edge]

So, here’s a thought. Essentially, I’d love to give DeAngelo Skjei’s deal and simply move on from Skjei. And moving on from Strome and Buchnevich keeps Kreider and allows Kravtsov to be the replacement for Buchnevich. Essentially, if Chytil replaces Strome, you need an ELC to replace Chytil on the 3rd line. It will take some juggling, but, it can be done.

Who replaces Skjei? Well, right now, I think Lindgren is securing a spot, and possibly next to Trouba. Here’s how I see the other two D spots - one spot is going to be Staal finishing out his contract. You could actually split that spot between Staal and Smith, and wipe the final year of each contract. The other spot should be the winner of a competition between Hajek, Rykov and Reunanen. Is it ideal? No, and, until the right high end LD emerges or is acquired, it will be an issue. But, to me, the puzzle is still not going to be complete going into next year.

But, by the time the trade deadline rolls around, there’s likely enough cap space to trade for that piece if that’s what’s needed for a playoff run.

As for DeAngelo, is it possible that the Rangers and DeAngelo could agree to another one-year deal, with the structure in place for an agreed upon long-term deal announced officially January 2021, which won’t hit the cap until July 2021.

The, in July 2021, you have Staal, Smith, Henke and Girardi off the books with an additional $20 million in cap space freed up, which can be allotted to DeAngelo and Kreider contracts, as well as 2nd deals for the players we’ve already discussed.

Just spitballing.

Personally, I am hesitant to replace Skjei and Buch for Lindgren and Kravtsov --- especially at this point. Warts and all, you're still talking about 70-80 points between the two of them.

The challenge is always going to be that Skjei and Buch are themselves likely to bring back salaries if we move them. In some cases, they almost have to --- because we need them to bring back NHL-level talent in their returns.

IMO, Skjei and Buch represent a sort of "laws of physics/equal but opposite reaction" type scenario when it comes to moving them. So while there's a lot of deals floating around out there about moving them, I often it's that equal but opposite reaction part that we tend downplay.

 

[Kovalev27]

How does dubas make it thru the week of Georgiev stones them tomorrow? That will be a very bad look. He’ll be forced to make a move.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I understand not wanting to play in New York. A few years ago when Shea Weber was shopping himself, he said thanks but no thanks to the Rangers. Too big.

New York is not for everyone.

This is like finding out you lived nextdoor to a serial killer for years, and finding out when he was arrested your name was originally on his list, but crossed off cause you were nice to him once.

 

[Edge]

Yea


As I’ve gotten older, (cue the jokes), NYC interests me a lot less. Due to my work travels, I’ve come to despise LI. And, I prefer traveling south and west.

Having seen a lot of the world, I find New York intrigues me more and more. There are very few cities that can match the food, culture, museums, entertainment, options, etc.

As someone who loves exploring new things, I never get bored there. On the flip side, living more rural, I find that I get bored and tired of second tier cities.

 

[MrPodz]

On kreiders return: hes the only ufa worth a damn this year and id expect some gm to be pressured to make playoffs and give him that major 7x7 contract. Blues won the cup, but dont read it as just that. This means that their gms, coaches, whole management basically have a few years of job security. If they fail to make playoffs, its okay! Cause they have a cup. They are still in their window, and so they are allowed to overpay to put them back over the top. Thats why kyrou or kostin are available. However, thats why players like thomas arent. They know that theyll need cheap players and hes doing a great job, so no need to give a young up n comer for an older more established player.

 

[MetalJaws]

GMJG might need to shop ADA to get a solid fwd back. Rangers just need Offense and they have way to many RHD that can play.


Trade ADA get a top 6 fwd, sweeten if you have to.
Hope next year Chytil and Kakko take another step, which is likely.
Trade Georgiev for the best possible return.
Trade Buch for the best possible return. Doesn't bring enough.
If you have to, Buy out Staal/Smith.
Resign the rest.

Completely changes the Offensive depth situation for next year. Also stocks up on some draft picks for further moves to get a guy or 2.

Kreider - Zib - Kakko
Panarin - Chytil - TRADE
Lemieux - Strome - Kravtsov
Smith/PDG - Howden - Fast

Skjei - Trouba
Lindgren - Fox
Hajek - TRADE/FA or one of ours.

Shesty
Hank

 

[RangersFan1994]

via Imgflip Meme Generator

Too soon?

 

[MrPodz]

For defense:
We have all noticed the heavy d-man drafting as gorton is trying to build the "defense wins championships" team, a good thought. Looking at who we drafted, we have a tonnof prospects coming in, sooner rather than later and that means we will see players being phased out of the team. I genuinely dont see how staal stays on the team next year and at the very least, if gorton does not come with jd and offer him to retire in exchange for some advisor role to make the money back on his contract. Guy hasnt been as bad this season(compared to last year, i think), but not worth a 2ld contract when hes like a 7d rn. Smith i expect to be traded after his july 1 is paid, and hopefully its to ottawa for a 4th or 5th round pick. Hes a servicable 3rd dpair and a lot of the reasoning behind his complete dumpster fire contract was he came out of shape after a wedding and hasnt been able to get back to the way he played in the postseason with skjei. Miller is 6'5, roberston is 6'3, the rest of the guys are like 6'1, 6'2. I think what gorton is doing is trying to make d bigger and heavier, but with skill and that playbook adheres to the blues way of doing things. I truly think however thar nils lundkvist is going to be quite the player. We shld have an allstar d soon, just need a system for the young uns.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

 

[NYR Viper]

I'd be fine watching a combination of Lindgren, Staal, Rykov, Hajek for a year on the left side if it meant Skjei being maximized and them finding a good, long term forward to add to this group. Just remain patient and on the lookout for the right young LD to become available.

 

[Ken1994]

Depending on what they do with Kreider, I'm not sure the budget a few years out is as big of a concern as it is maybe next season.

You have a lot of money coming off the books after the 2020-2021 season.

The question is how the Rangers go about navigating the stretch of time between right now and July 1, 2021. That would also give them a good indication as to what Fox's second contract might look like.

To get through the one year where the cap is tough, I think keeping Kreider just means not signing Fast and worst case buying out Stahl and Smith. My assumption is that either Georgiev is traded or Hank bought out.

There are two UFAs (Kreider and Fast) and four RFAs (Dangelo, Strome, Georgiev and Lemieux) of substance. If they all get the high end of what is expected, it is impossible to keep them all without some luck with Hank's situation, but it is pretty close.

The high end seems to be Kreider ($7 million), the combo of Strome and Deangelo ($12 million), Georgiev-$4.5 million, Fast $3 million and Lemieux-$1.5 million. That is $28 million. But there is no way that both Georgiev and Henrik are around. There are three possibilities. (i) Hank waives and gets traded or retires (which virtually eliminates the cap problem by itself), (ii) Georgiev is traded or (iii) Georgiev stays and Hank is bought out. The last is the worst case from a cap perspective, but takes the $28 million down to $25 million. There are two other Rangers who I don't see as part of the next run, Smith and Staal. Buying them out would save $3.7 on the cap. That would take us to $21.3 million. In my mind, that makes Fast the cap casualty rather than Kreider. That would take us to $18.3 million. That works if the Spotrac cap numbers are right and is somewhat over if the Capfriendly cap number is right.

But even if we are somewhat over, with all the talent and assets in the system, including many more real good RHDs than we will ever be able to play, I can't imagine that we would not be able to make trades and overpay if necessary to make adjustments to cover what should be a relatively small gap. Also, the numbers I have used are generally high end. Strome and Deangelo might be $11 million combined instead of $12 million (I combined them because the expected ranges for each seemed to differ quite a lot) and maybe Kreider, Fast and Lemieux each cost $250,000-$500,000 less than the numbers I used.

 

[Edge]

To get through the one year where the cap is tough, I think keeping Kreider just means not signing Fast and worst case buying out Stahl and Smith. My assumption is that either Georgiev is traded or Hank bought out.

There are two UFAs (Kreider and Fast) and four RFAs (Dangelo, Strome, Georgiev and Lemieux) of substance. If they all get the high end of what is expected, it is impossible to keep them all without some luck with Hank's situation, but it is pretty close.

The high end seems to be Kreider ($7 million), the combo of Strome and Deangelo ($12 million), Georgiev-$4.5 million, Fast $3 million and Lemieux-$1.5 million. That is $28 million. But there is no way that both Georgiev and Henrik are around. There are three possibilities. (i) Hank waives and gets traded or retires (which virtually eliminates the cap problem by itself), (ii) Georgiev is traded or (iii) Georgiev stays and Hank is bought out. The last is the worst case from a cap perspective, but takes the $28 million down to $25 million. There are two other Rangers who I don't see as part of the next run, Smith and Staal. Buying them out would save $3.7 on the cap. That would take us to $21.3 million. In my mind, that makes Fast the cap casualty rather than Kreider. That would take us to $18.3 million. That works if the Spotrac cap numbers are right and is somewhat over if the Capfriendly cap number is right.

But even if we are somewhat over, with all the talent and assets in the system, including many more real good RHDs than we will ever be able to play, I can't imagine that we would not be able to make trades and overpay if necessary to make adjustments to cover what should be a relatively small gap. Also, the numbers I have used are generally high end. Strome and Deangelo might be $11 million combined instead of $12 million (I combined them because the expected ranges for each seemed to differ quite a lot) and maybe Kreider, Fast and Lemieux each cost $250,000-$500,000 less than the numbers I used.

My own opinions aside, right now, I don't get the vibe that the Rangers are eyeing a Kreider contract offer --- at the very least I don't think they're eyeing him without his potential TDL return.

Now, let's say certain things happen in the offseason and different players are moved, I could see them revisiting Kreider's situation and making an offer based on whatever the market ends up being.

So let's the market for Kreider is 7x5. If certain things happen, could I envision the Rangers offering 6 x 6 or 6.5 x 5? Yeah, I could.

But right now, the sense I'm getting is that they haven't deviated from the concept of moving him.

 

[Edge]

I'd be fine watching a combination of Lindgren, Staal, Rykov, Hajek for a year on the left side if it meant Skjei being maximized and them finding a good, long term forward to add to this group. Just remain patient and on the lookout for the right young LD to become available.

I do have some concerns about moving guys up ahead of where they should be. Frankly, that's kind of how we got to this point with Skjei in the first place.

But whether it's Chytil, Kakko, Fox, Lindgren, etc., I'm always a little hesitant to go with the approach of "sliding them up." Because as we've seen, in most cases they might not be quite as ready for that jump as we want to optimistically believe. When we also factor in production, I think that's where people keep getting frustrated: when Kakko scores 30 and not 40, or Kravtsov scores 20 and not 30, or Chytil scores 35 but not 45.

In isolation, none of those things sound like deal breakers. But then we add it all up and we realize that we were (consciously/subconsciously) hoping 30 points than we ended up with, and cumulatively that makes a significant different.

I continue to be someone who has reservations with some of the proposed approaches. It's not that they can't work; I'm just not sure the odds are as favorable as some believe.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Quinn calls out Buch by name without reporters asking repeatedly.

Vince carrying some nice water there

 

[Fitzy]

I'd be fine watching a combination of Lindgren, Staal, Rykov, Hajek for a year on the left side if it meant Skjei being maximized and them finding a good, long term forward to add to this group. Just remain patient and on the lookout for the right young LD to become available.

One hundred percent agree. I'm more than willing to let Staal stink up big minutes for one more year if it means improving the team come 2021.

 

[lakeshirts37]

Kreider isn't worth as much as Hayes.

I disagree given Kreider is the top rental on the market this year. He’ll return more than Hayes.

 

[mas0764]

you’re not getting Newhook.

it’s fine to say I want the demands set high but this is how this place always is disappointed. People setting wildly unrealistic expectations and then melting down at returns.

I'm not gonna melt down. The Avs don't have a package that interests me sans Newhook though.

So I wouldn't trade him there.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

I love NYC, but I'm the type of person who can take it in small bursts. I'm not sure I could take it for months on end

Suburbia is right next door. Westchester and Fairfield county are close and have some terrific areas.

If I'm Dubas, I'm eyeing deals where I don't get a player of equal value back for someone like Nylander, but I get two or three important pieces, or put myself in a position to get those guys. Doing so with the end goal of elevating the overall level of my team.

Totally agree.

Gaborik for Brassard, Dorsett, and Moore. People hated the trade because we gave up a sexy forward for depth, but it was a good trade for us at the time. Nylander would get them a better haul.

 

[Rongomania]

Oh man I hope gorts hoses one of these desperate teams. G/Skjei/Fast/Kreids has the potential to do serious damage to these teams heading into the post season.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I do have some concerns about moving guys up ahead of where they should be. Frankly, that's kind of how we got to this point with Skjei in the first place.

But whether it's Chytil, Kakko, Fox, Lindgren, etc., I'm always a little hesitant to go with the approach of "sliding them up." Because as we've seen, in most cases they might not be quite as ready for that jump as we want to optimistically believe. When we also factor in production, I think that's where people keep getting frustrated: when Kakko scores 30 and not 40, or Kravtsov scores 20 and not 30, or Chytil scores 35 but not 45.

In isolation, none of those things sound like deal breakers. But then we add it all up and we realize that we were (consciously/subconsciously) hoping 30 points than we ended up with, and cumulatively that makes a significant different.

I continue to be someone who has reservations with some of the proposed approaches. It's not that they can't work; I'm just not sure the odds are as favorable as some believe.

Sometimes you just have to jump. I know people want these to go smoothly, but, as I have reiterated from the beginning, there are no guarantees. I think that losing Kreider will have a bigger impact than losing the combination of Skjei and Buchnevich.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Tell us how you feel, Buchy

 

[Edge]

Sometimes you just have to jump. I know people want these to go smoothly, but, as I have reiterated from the beginning, there are no guarantees. I think that losing Kreider will have a bigger impact than losing the combination of Skjei and Buchnevich.

I think jumping is a lot about timing. It's the difference between jumping into a wall, and getting a running start and clearing the gap.

I think Kreider has a single bigger impact that either Skjei and Buchnevich, but as a 1-2 punch? Eh, I think we're seriously under-estimating their roles on this team.

And that's fine if we're using them to upgrade, but if a big part of the motivation is to free up salary, then I think it's one of those areas where we are going to quickly find the concept a lot more appealing than the reality.

 

[Vitto79]

I'd be fine watching a combination of Lindgren, Staal, Rykov, Hajek for a year on the left side if it meant Skjei being maximized and them finding a good, long term forward to add to this group. Just remain patient and on the lookout for the right young LD to become available.

Its hard because we may be taking Skjei for granted......i dont think he goes unless they get a legit replacement...........like a Trouba type trade

Staal needs to go so another kid caa take his spot to end this year .........Skjei, Lindgren ,Hajek/Rykov