Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20 Part XXV

[Minmonster]

I don't think it's a concern at all for this year. Next year, probably not the same scenario.

Was told multiple times several months ago that the plan was to get Shesterkin reps in the NHL in the new year, with a few back and forth trips a possibility (as schedules dictate). As far as I know, nothing's changed on that front. The wildcard is Shesterkin playing so well they can't/won't send him down multiple times. But I think even in that scenario, there is a path to get through the rest of the schedule. Not an ideal path, but not a catastrophe either.

Is it a crazy idea to buy out the king to keep the two younger guys if jpg believes they are the future? Especially if he can't get decent value for Georgie.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Is it a crazy idea to buy out the king to keep the two younger guys if jpg believes they are the future? Especially if he can't get decent value for Georgie.

With the need for goalies around the league and how poorly most teams are at developing them, I have a tough time seeing him getting decent value for him, especially at his age/cost-controlableness

 

[Vitto79]

Is it a crazy idea to buy out the king to keep the two younger guys if jpg believes they are the future? Especially if he can't get decent value for Georgie.

They also keep posting about Wall ... it’s like they want us to know they have G depth

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

To me this is good for keeping Fast under $3 million. Kassian has better numbers, albeit riding the coattails of McDavid but still better numbers.

Fast 3 years @2.75 max

Ya I was going to say that Fast definitely comes in under that. Kassian being a hulking psycho probably helped his salary too.

 

[Edge]

Yes but you gained a top 6 player, we already have 2 top 4 dmen on the right side, and a bunch of prospect right dmen. Panarin Strome Connor looks a lot better than Panarin Strome Fast. And your d while, you did lose some scoring from it, say you lost 25 points from losing Deangelo(fox gains some being on pp1, say Keane puts up some) and you gain 70 points in Connor. We would have to be better than we are now, especially if the dman that replaced DeAngelo happened to be better defensively.

Make no mistake, I’d love to nab a 24 year old, 70 point LW. But a 60 point point defenseman in that age range is like finding a black diamond.

It’s exactly that rarity that makes me hesitant to expect that Fox picking up some points and bringing back a rookie will off-set that.

I just think there are other ways to improve this roster, without losing a guy who has a chance to put up the kind of in numbers we haven’t seen from a defenseman since before some of the posters on here were even born.

But yes, if you’re moving ADA, you have to aim for the kind of return you’re suggesting.

 

[egelband]

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Kreider's agent floated this to Friedman.

Stay tuned.

Love it. 6.75 x 5 sounds very reasonable. I would absolutely do that.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Make no mistake, I’d love to nab a 24 year old, 70 point LW. But a 60 point point defenseman in that age range is like finding a black diamond.

It’s exactly that rarity that makes me hesitant to expect that Fox picking up some points and bringing back a rookie will off-set that.

I just think there are other ways to improve this roster, without losing a guy who has a chance to put up the kind of in numbers we haven’t seen from a defenseman since before some of the posters on here were even born.

But yes, if you’re moving ADA, you have to aim for the kind of return you’re suggesting.

I still think the team is better after that due to our depth on the right side d and lack of offensive depth up front.

 

[Edge]

Love it. 6.75 x 5 sounds very reasonable. I would absolutely do that.

Putting aside my uncertainty about the Rangers wanting to go that high, I would keep in mind that asking him to take $250k less per year, and leave two years on the table comes with a total cost to Kreider’s camp of $14.5 million dollars compared to what he’s probably looking at on the open market.

 

[Edge]

I still think the team is better after that due to our depth on the right side d and lack of offensive depth up front.

I think finding a second line LW will be significantly easier than finding a 60 point RD.

I think if/when they need to make a move for a high impact player who is established in the NHL, I think they’re going to go down the road more often traveled - prospects and picks for a player.

And they will probably have a very nice reserve of prospects from which to draw from.

 

[bobbop]

I have never seen a 7 X $7MM contract in the cards for Kreider. He’s two years older than Evander Kane and the Rangers don’t have anywhere near the level of desperation that the Islanders had with Anders Lee.

Cook in the tightening cap and the way so many teams have run up against the cap I don’t see that money being out there. Take Boston for instance. If they were going to take a run at him they would have to probably walk away from Krug and Debrusk next year. I also don’t see Kreider chasing to the corners of the earth for a contract.

I’ve always looked at Pacioretty (4 X $7.5MM) and JVR (5 X $7MM) as better comparables. If Kreider takes that kind of term and perhaps a little less $ there could be a deal to be made. I know many of you think I am way off on the contract but I thought the item in Friedman’s column, obviously planted there, leads me to believe I may not be.

 

[bobbop]

I think finding a second line LW will be significantly easier than finding a 60 point RD.

I think if/when they need to make a move for a high impact player who is established in the NHL, I think they’re going to go down the road more often traveled - prospects and picks for a player.

And they will probably have a very nice reserve of prospects from which to draw from.

If I trade DeAngelo, I want a first line caliber player back,

 

[Edge]

Is it a crazy idea to buy out the king to keep the two younger guys if jpg believes they are the future? Especially if he can't get decent value for Georgie.

I don’t see the Rangers going down that path.

I think just about everyone in the organization feels Shesterkin is the future. I think the gnashing of teeth is because:

They also think Georgiev is an NHL starter they don’t want to give away for peanuts

and

They know Lundkvist is gone in a year so it seems like such an annoyance to have to go out and potentially get an inferior player to serve as a backup

But I will boldly say that for as much as the Rangers love Georgiev, they probably aren’t quite as crazy in love with him as media reports make it sound. I think a lot of that is posturing for a trade.

 

[Edge]

I have never seen a 7 X $7MM contract in the cards for Kreider. He’s two years older than Evander Kane and the Rangers don’t have anywhere near the level of desperation that the Islanders had with Anders Lee.

Cook in the tightening cap and the way so many teams have run up against the cap I don’t see that money being out there. Take Boston for instance. If they were going to take a run at him they would have to probably walk away from Krug and Debrusk next year. I also don’t see Kreider chasing to the corners of the earth for a contract.

I’ve always looked at Pacioretty (4 X $7.5MM) and JVR (5 X $7MM) as better comparables. If Kreider takes that kind of term and perhaps a little less $ there could be a deal to be made. I know many of you think I am way off on the contract but I thought the item in Friedman’s column, obviously planted there, leads me to believe I may not be.

I’m really not sure the Rangers concern is 5 years vs 7 years, quite as much as it’s the $7 million part of the deal.

If they had to pick one aspect to come down, and only one, I think they’d probably say salary.

 

[egelband]

Ya I was going to say that Fast definitely comes in under that. Kassian being a hulking psycho probably helped his salary too.

The Tom Wilson Effect?

 

[Edge]

If I trade DeAngelo, I want a first line caliber player back,

I agree.

You have to get one, there’s no other way you can look at yourself in the mirror.

You have to get another player back who can give you 5 or more years of high-end, impactful play. You simply must.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I think finding a second line LW will be significantly easier than finding a 60 point RD.

I think if/when they need to make a move for a high impact player who is established in the NHL, I think they’re going to go down the road more often traveled - prospects and picks for a player.

And they will probably have a very nice reserve of prospects from which to draw from.

We already have another one, Fox, kid in his rookie year, not playing on the top pp has 27 already. Throw him on the top pp and those numbers go up and will be significantly cheaper the next few years.

 

[egelband]

Putting aside my uncertainty about the Rangers wanting to go that high, I would keep in mind that asking him to take $250k less per year, and leave two years on the table comes with a total cost to Kreider’s camp of $14.5 million dollars compared to what he’s probably looking at on the open market.

You’ret right of course, but I can’t wrap my head around speculation. I’m only good for laying out parameters. What Kreider will do, he will do. I also should add, 6.75 x 5 sounds good to me. I am no capologist. But it seems like a discount and it seems like it fits the cap structure for a first/second line LW long term. I guess what I’m saying is, that sounds like where the Rangers should draw the line in terms of cap hit and term. And if the speculation is correct, he’s open to it. Or maybe even a little less cap hit, if 6.75m is his starting point. (Obviously taking liberty with the report )

 

[Edge]

We already have another one, Fox, kid in his rookie year, not playing on the top pp has 27 already. Throw him on the top pp and those numbers go up and will be significantly cheaper the next few years.

I like Fox, but I think we’re asking for trouble if 50 games into his career we’re looking for him to replace a guy who is doing something we haven’t seen in almost 20 years.

And that’s the difference. There’s excellent, awesome play. And then there’s the type of play you literally wait a generation to find on your team. (Not calling ADA a generational talent)

 

[egelband]

I’m really not sure the Rangers concern is 5 years vs 7 years, quite as much as it’s the $7 million part of the deal.

If they had to pick one aspect to come down, and only one, I think they’d probably say salary.

Interesting. I would have thought it the other way around. Particularly after all the buyouts they’ve done and are probably considering lately.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I like Fox, but I think we’re asking for trouble if 50 games into his career we’re looking for him to replace a guy who is doing something we haven’t seen in almost 20 years.

And that’s the difference. There’s excellent, awesome play. And then there’s the type of play you literally wait a generation to find on your team. (Not calling ADA a generational talent)

Yes but this time last year DeAngelo was sitting on the bench, its his 3rd nhl team and he's only 24. Is this his new norm or is this a one off, it's no guarantee with him either. Fox I have no problem replacing DeAngelo, he may or may not get that point total, Tony may not do it again either, but he is better in his own end as well. I mean Fox, not playing on the 1st pp with Zibby and Panarin is only 10 points behind him now.

 

[Edge]

Yes but this time last year DeAngelo was sitting on the bench, its his 3rd nhl team and he's only 24. Is this his new norm or is this a one off, it's no guarantee with him either. Fox I have no problem replacing DeAngelo, he may or may not get that point total, Tony may not do it again either, but he is better in his own end as well. I mean Fox, not playing on the 1st pp with Zibby and Panarin is only 10 points behind him now.

I think people forget that ADA’s second half last year saw him grow and tend to a roughly 50+ point pace. Beyond this season, he has something like 56 points in his last 82 games. So it’s not just what he doing this season, it’s the way he’s been trending over two seasons now. So while I appreciate concern about some kind of backslide, I don’t think that slide would be quite as pronounced as we fear.

But at the end of the day, I still can’t quite get my head around why we would move him. There’s no reason to move ADA for help on the wings when there’s plenty of examples of teams moving those same quality wings for packages that include exactly the type of prospects we’d have to offer. I don’t think it’s an either/or proposition.

 

[NYR Viper]

If the team isn’t in a position to make the playoffs and make noise why not, even if you want to re-sign Kreider, grade him for assets at the deadline and circle back after the season. It gives Kreider an opportunity to play meaningful playoff games and it gives the Rangers the assets they receive in return for the trade. If he loves NY and is willing to give the discount then that shouldn’t change in the offseason. Assuming the team is interested in his ask.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I think people forget that ADA’s second half last year saw him grow and tend to a roughly 50+ point pace. Beyond this season, he has something like 56 points in his last 82 games. So it’s not just what he doing this season, it’s the way he’s been trending over two seasons now. So while I appreciate concern about some kind of backslide, I don’t think that slide would be quite as pronounced as we fear.

But at the end of the day, I still can’t quite get my head around why we would move him. There’s no reason to move ADA for help on the wings when there’s plenty of examples of teams moving those same quality wings for packages that include exactly the type of prospects we’d have to offer. I don’t think it’s an either/or proposition.

If he wants to get paid like a 60 point defenseman is the issue. If he does, I'm out because we have a guy who can do the job already and we have much bigger needs organizationally up front. We can't go forward with Trouba at 8, say DeAngelo at 6 or 7 and then pay the guy who will likely be our best dman in Fox down the road, all the while holding up Lundqvist, Keane etc. You cant spend upwards of 22+ million on right side dmen and hope to win.

 

[Trxjw]

Little bit more negotiating via talking heads tonight. The Bobfather had this to say about Pittsburgh and Kreider:

“I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for Chris Kreider to materialize, in terms of a rental. Might be difficult to do that in the division. But [the Pens] are on the hunt for a scoring winger who can play with Crosby or Malkin.”

Reading between the lines a bit, that feels like Gorton letting Rutherford know there's a division-rival tax. Kreider's the perfect fit on paper for them and if Gorton can trade with the Devils I think he can trade with the Pens.

 

[Edge]

If he wants to get paid like a 60 point defenseman is the issue. If he does, I'm out because we have a guy who can do the job already and we have much bigger needs organizationally up front. We can't go forward with Trouba at 8, say DeAngelo at 6 or 7 and then pay the guy who will likely be our best dman in Fox down the road, all the while holding up Lundqvist, Keane etc. You cant spend upwards of 22+ million on right side dmen and hope to win.

I am confused though. We can’t spent $22+ on three RDs, but we can spend $22+ million on three left wings and hope to win?

(Panarin; Kreider/Connor/whoever we get for ADA; and Lemieux)

And if Fox becomes a 60 point defenseman, and Lundkvist, Keane, whoever actually forced the issue, why can’t we move ADA then?

Wouldn’t that be a safer approach than trading ADA and hoping those guys can be what you describe?

I think we have to be careful just assuming other guys can be as good as what we actually have - even if they show early promise. You don’t wait 20 years to get a guy who scores 20 goals and 60 points, only to trade him with the idea that you hope the next guy can get close to that.

There’s a reason it took 20 years to find a guy who can post 20/60, because it’s not that common...