Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20 Part XXV

[gravey9]

And my personal feelings aside, I just don't know if I see the Rangers going to $6.85 million. I think they would've done that already if the difference was one season and only $150,000 per year.

I feel like we're venturing into the "so you're saying there's a chance" phase of this breakup, and I'm not sure I really see the odds changing.

I hear ya. I'm merely guessing what a realistic deal would be if Rangers and CK decided to stay together. I'm not advocating one way or the other as I see merits to going either way.

I do think if the Rangers think Buch by himself can net a mid-late first rounder at the 2020 draft then I'd think a lot harder about trading CK. As currently, it seems like trading CK will net you a late first, an NHL 4th liner and a B prospect. In that scenario, trading Buch likely makes more sense. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned that the Rangers have no replacement at all for a guy like Kreider.

 

[egelband]

Fasts wife gave birth to a baby this past summer or maybe a little earlier: he may not want to go as a rental. Flip side, dealing him as a rental, and he spending 3 months somewhere else may show him how much he doesn’t want to permanently uproot his family and make him want to re-sign the NYR even more

A little heavy-handed there, don’t you think?

 

[FIRE DRURY]

I wouldn't want to see Tony D go, unless his contract demands are unreasonable.

Would suck to lose him. On the upside his obsessed fans are generally insufferable. So the anger there would be fun to watch.

ADA’s one of my favorites on this team and I would love to see him here long term. But, considering RD has become one of our strengths, I think you have to entertain the idea of moving him for the right return. I’m not talking about futures - but a young, established piece that fills an actual void in our lineup.

At the end of the day everyone is available for the right price.

 

[True Blue]

I don't see any GM handing over a top player for someone who hasn't produced consistently for a full season. There is no guarantee he will continue at his current pace.

To be fair, he has been doing this basically for over a year now

 

[Leetch3]

But you just said there was almost no way the NYR kept all 4 defensemen. Fox sure isn't getting traded. You think Nils might?

all logic says that fox and trouba are going to be around for awhile...the unknown right now is what happens with DeAngelo...if Tony gets locked up long term, then without question Lundkvist probably gets dealt. if they decide to sell high and trade DeAngelo instead then we keep Lundkvist

bit of captain obvious there but its all tied to that decision...i'm a huge lundkvist support but if he gets locked up long term, it would be extremely hard for him to force his way into the lineup

 

[Edge]

I hear ya. I'm merely guessing what a realistic deal would be if Rangers and CK decided to stay together. I'm not advocating one way or the other as I see merits to going either way.

I do think if the Rangers think Buch by himself can net a mid-late first rounder at the 2020 draft then I'd think a lot harder about trading CK. As currently, it seems like trading CK will net you a late first, an NHL 4th liner and a B prospect. In that scenario, trading Buch likely makes more sense. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned that the Rangers have no replacement at all for a guy like Kreider.

Well the challenge is that at some point we gotta shorten the birthday list.

We want to resign Kreider, and pay for it by trading Buch. Then we want to re-sign ADA, and if we commit to Kreider, that probably comes with trading Strome.

But then we really can't take too much salary back, so we want to get picks, but then we want depth because we don't have it this year.

To meet the need depth, we want to trade Georgiev for Kapanen (or Labanc), and the former comes with a $3 million price tag that is eerily close to Buch's contract, which we just traded, to free up from to sign Kreider.

So the reality is that we can have some of those things, but not all of them.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

And I agree. But I think that's the gulf we're talking about between keeping him or not. I think we're talking years and multi millions of dollars. It's not a small gap, or one that the Rangers will suddenly one day wake up and say, "You know what? Sure. Let's go 7 x 7, or 6.85 x 6.

It's not a 1-1 situation but Shattenkirk is a good example of this. Guy left almost 22 million dollars on the table not accepting Tampa's offer, to play with us and he'll probably never make up all that money.

Which sucks because Shattenkirk is one of my favorite players and I love that he was a true NY'er wanting to player here but that's a lot of dough to leave to chance

 

[True Blue]

I wouldn't want to see Tony D go, unless his contract demands are unreasonable.

He can be as unreasonable as he wants, he is still RFA, not UFA. So worst case scenario, Gorton takes him to arbitration where he is compared to market comps. Now given where he is trending, that will still be not cheap, but hardly what I would consider unreasonable. And let's face it, no one is going to come in and put in an offer right now for DeAngelo at $7m. So not really worried.

And truth be told, if someone was to put together an offer sheet of something like $6m, I would match it in a heartbeat as he will not have NTC/NMC.

So no, I do not see DeAngelo going anywhere. I believe he will get signed long term. Be it this year or next.

 

[egelband]

Who's asking for a trade first, McDavid or Eichel?

I think McDavid is pretty much resigned to being the face of the Oilers for his career or at least the foreseeable. Eichel seems more itchy.
Just my sense.

 

[True Blue]

That would be nice if DeAngelo did that but he kinda had to take what he got this year, I'm doubtful he is looking to take a discount deal from us and he would be prime pickings for an offer sheet.

Like I just said in a different post, I can only hope that someone offer sheets DeAngelo. There is no way that the offer sheet will be a $7m deal. And if it for $5-6, I would match in in a heart beat and have him wrapped up to a long term deal with no such things as NTC/NMC.

 

[Edge]

It's not a 1-1 situation but Shattenkirk is a good example of this. Guy left almost 22 million dollars on the table not accepting Tampa's offer, to play with us and he'll probably never make up all that money.

Which sucks because Shattenkirk is one of my favorite players and I love that he was a true NY'er wanting to player here but that's a lot of dough to leave to chance

It is, and I know there's a lot of hope for a discount --- but that usually only goes so far.

As I've always said, interest in keeping Kreider might be something that is measured on a sliding scale --- kind of like when you go to a mortgage website, or a car website and you mess with the length of the loan and the interest rate.

At 7x7, I don't think it happens on the Rangers end. The more you play with the years and dollars, the more interest there could be from the Rangers. But on the flip side, I think the more you play with the years and the dollars, the more you probably lower the interest on Kreider's side.

The only thing I can think of is the Rangers getting really creative and lowering the annual cost and really tacking on some years, with the thought that salary relative to his peers will balance out over time, and that the cap will see significant increases over the term of the contract.

So, do they get creative and offer $6 million over 8 years, figuring that gets him close to the $49 million market rate, albeit spread over another year? Or is that an automatic, "are you f***ing nuts?" type of reaction from the front office.

 

[Edge]

Like I just said in a different post, I can only hope that someone offer sheets DeAngelo. There is no way that the offer sheet will be a $7m deal. And if it for $5-6, I would match in in a heart beat and have him wrapped up to a long term deal with no such things as NTC/NMC.

I tend to think $5-$6 m is what we're looking at anyway --- especially if he actually hits 20 goals and 60 points.

 

[True Blue]

ADA’s one of my favorites on this team and I would love to see him here long term. But, considering RD has become one of our strengths, I think you have to entertain the idea of moving him for the right return. I’m not talking about futures - but a young, established piece that fills an actual void in our lineup.

At the end of the day everyone is available for the right price.

Of course everyone is available at the right price. That goes without saying.

But short of that price, what DeAngelo is doing and has been doing is pretty rare. Just look at the names in the last 10 years that are on that level. Now look at his age. This does not grow on trees. RD is and will a strength. Why would we weaken it? We think and hope that one day Fox can also have the same offensive acumen? Maybe, but more than likely not. Again, just look at how many names have done it. Fox will be a very good, smart defenseman who will be no slouch in the offensive zone but he will probably not be DeAngelo in the offensive zone. Trouba brings something completely different to the table.

Fox's contract? Worry about that over time. He is on his ECL and then will have 3 RFA years. Not a worry right now.

Lundqvist, Keane? The chances of them putting up points like DeAngelo are not very good. Which is not to say that they are not very good prospects But when you have a Trouba and a DeAngelo & Fox who are already producing at a young age, there is no need to hope to find another prospect that maybe will do it. You then turn around and trade the Lunkqvists of the world for that young and established piece that fills a void.

 

[True Blue]

I tend to think $5-$6 m is what we're looking at anyway --- especially if he actually hits 20 goals and 60 points.

Agreed. And if someone wants to offer sheet that, if I am Gorton I am matching and running. And laughing at my good fortune.

Short of that, I think that deal will get done either this off season or next. Either way, I believe it will and think that DeAngelo will be here for a long time.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I don't see any GM handing over a top player for someone who hasn't produced consistently for a full season. There is no guarantee he will continue at his current pace.

If by not produce consistently, you mean has gotten better every season since joining the rangers, I absolutely agree. He was .5 ppg last year and is well ahead of that this year. We would absolutely get a premium piece for DeAngelo.

 

[gravey9]

Well the challenge is that at some point we gotta shorten the birthday list.

We want to resign Kreider, and pay for it by trading Buch. Then we want to re-sign ADA, and if we commit to Kreider, that probably comes with trading Strome.

But then we really can't take too much salary back, so we want to get picks, but then we want depth because we don't have it this year.

To meet the need depth, we want to trade Georgiev for Kapanen (or Labanc), and the former comes with a $3 million price tag that is eerily close to Buch's contract, which we just traded, to free up from to sign Kreider.

So the reality is that we can have some of those things, but not all of them.

Yup, yup. It will all come down to identifying first and foremost which players are a part of the core moving forward. I get that CK is on the wrong side of his prime and it's dangerous to give a guy like that a big contract given how young the team is.

That said, I do believe CK can be a vital part of the team in 3-4 years. I don't know if I say the same for Strome & Buch. I think both are likely to be upgraded or replaced in that time span. Again, not advocating either way. Just trying to envision the team that starts competing in 2-3 years. I'm also a little nervous about Zibanejad's durability. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[East Coast Bias]

He can be as unreasonable as he wants, he is still RFA, not UFA. So worst case scenario, Gorton takes him to arbitration where he is compared to market comps. Now given where he is trending, that will still be not cheap, but hardly what I would consider unreasonable. And let's face it, no one is going to come in and put in an offer right now for DeAngelo at $7m. So not really worried.

And truth be told, if someone was to put together an offer sheet of something like $6m, I would match it in a heartbeat as he will not have NTC/NMC.

So no, I do not see DeAngelo going anywhere. I believe he will get signed long term. Be it this year or next.

Yeah I more meant his thinking long term. I think whatever happens with him, they'll want to either sign him long term or trade him. Gut feeling. Do you see them going into arbitration with him again, if his demands are crazy and they're never going to pay that, with the intention to just ride it out till UFA?

 

[Thirty One]

Of course everyone is available at the right price. That goes without saying.

But short of that price, what DeAngelo is doing and has been doing is pretty rare. Just look at the names in the last 10 years that are on that level. Now look at his age. This does not grow on trees. RD is and will a strength. Why would we weaken it? We think and hope that one day Fox can also have the same offensive acumen? Maybe, but more than likely not. Again, just look at how many names have done it. Fox will be a very good, smart defenseman who will be no slouch in the offensive zone but he will probably not be DeAngelo in the offensive zone. Trouba brings something completely different to the table.

Fox's contract? Worry about that over time. He is on his ECL and then will have 3 RFA years. Not a worry right now.

Lundqvist, Keane? The chances of them putting up points like DeAngelo are not very good. Which is not to say that they are not very good prospects But when you have a Trouba and a DeAngelo & Fox who are already producing at a young age, there is no need to hope to find another prospect that maybe will do it. You then turn around and trade the Lunkqvists of the world for that young and established piece that fills a void.

It is strange to me to see people who had no time for Yandle losing their minds over DeAngelo.

 

[bobbop]

The meltdown that will occur should the Rangers re-sign Kreider will reach epic proportions. Could be a team friendly deal and you will still have some crying their eyes out that Kreider was not traded/monetized for futures.

Not from me.

 

[True Blue]

It is strange to me to see people who had no time for Yandle losing their minds over DeAngelo.

I did not want the Yandle trade, I made no bones about it. Yandle did not accomplish what DeAngelo is accomplishing until latter in his career. Yandle was also far older than DeAngelo when he came to the Rangers. Yandle also cost assets to acquire. Where the Rangers were at the time of the Yandle trade and where the Rangers are now as far as what DeAngelo is doing is quite different.

But other than those, I certainly see the similarities.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'm looking back at these posts. What did Elliot Friedman say about Kreider?

"
Other players at all-star weekend think Chris Kreider really likes being a Ranger. The biggest challenge could be what offers they get for him. There will still be an extension conversation. If New York goes five or six years at around $6.75 million per, what will he say?"


He probably says no and that ends the conversation.

If DeAngelo is moved because they decide that they'd rather have Kreider, we're f***ed beyond belief.

 

[True Blue]

Do you see them going into arbitration with him again, if his demands are crazy and they're never going to pay that, with the intention to just ride it out till UFA?

My gut feeling is that he gets signed long term this off season or next. So maybe it will involve arbitration for a year.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

"
Other players at all-star weekend think Chris Kreider really likes being a Ranger. The biggest challenge could be what offers they get for him. There will still be an extension conversation. If New York goes five or six years at around $6.75 million per, what will he say?"


He probably says no and that ends the conversation.

If DeAngelo is moved because they decide that they'd rather have Kreider, we're ****ed beyond belief.

Why? We should be able to get a good forward for DeAngelo, something we have a need for.

 

[SA16]

I really don't think any reasonably contract gets it done. They don't want to commit a lot of money to him long term and have that on their cap for years especially if there is a decline. Whether it is 6M or 7M is really immaterial it's the opportunity cost of not trading him plus making it harder to sign other guys plus likely having a bad deal at the end. If he would take a 3-4 year deal that's a different story but it also is obviously not realistic.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

What if....
DeAngelo wants 6x6, I'm not saying he does but say a number and term Gorton isnt comfortable with.
Say we move him for Kyle Connor for example, dont know if that works but say one team had to add a 2nd or something, arent we fixing a need and saving cap in an area we have an abundance? Sign me up.