Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20 Part XXV

[GoAwayPanarin]

We take a strength and make it a weakness, unnecessarily.

Food for thought, DeAngelo is on pace to eclipse Kreider's best offensive output. I'd rather have TDA at 6x6 than Kreider at the same terms, which he wouldn't sign for.

Kreider is going to be a tough guy to replace no doubt, but that doesn't mean that you should move key pieces around just to fit him in. Now there are other ways to ensure that you keep both of them, but I don't think that this team would even consider doing what would be necessary (Trading Buch, Strome, Skjei, LTIR Staal.)

 

[Edge]

What if....
DeAngelo wants 6x6, I'm not saying he does but say a number and term Gorton isnt comfortable with.
Say we move him for Kyle Connor for example, dont know if that works but say one team had to add a 2nd or something, arent we fixing a need and saving cap in an area we have an abundance? Sign me up.

That's where the whole returning salary component rears its ugly head again.

Because if you're trading ADA for someone like Connor, aka an established player in a similar age range, you're getting something like Connor's 7x7 contract back --- so it's actually going to cost you as much money, maybe a little more.

 

[Thirty One]

I did not want the Yandle trade, I made no bones about it. Yandle did not accomplish what DeAngelo is accomplishing until latter in his career. Yandle was also far older than DeAngelo when he came to the Rangers. Yandle also cost assets to acquire. Where the Rangers were at the time of the Yandle trade and where the Rangers are now as far as what DeAngelo is doing is quite different.

But other than those, I certainly see the similarities.

Yeah, different circumstances and everything, sure. But just as a player, you seemed to have little respect for what Yandle brought. Scoffed at the idea he was an elite offensive defenseman. Now with DeAngelo you're noting how rare it is for a defenseman to be doing what he's doing.

 

[Edge]

Yeah, different circumstances and everything, sure. But just as a player, you seemed to have little respect for what Yandle brought. Scoffed at the idea he was an elite offensive defenseman. Now with DeAngelo you're noting how rare it is for a defenseman to be doing what he's doing.

In fairness, I don't remember Yandle, even in Arizona and a few years older than ADA, doing what ADA can do to completely change the flow of the game.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

 

[leetch99]

That's where the whole returning salary component rears its ugly head again.

Because if you're trading ADA for someone like Connor, aka an established player in a similar age range, you're getting something like Connor's 7x7 contract back --- so it's actually going to cost you as much money, maybe a little more.

 

[Thirty One]

Won't happen anyways...I would bet ANY amount of money that the Peg is on his list of clubs he avoids. That one goes without thinking.

That's proposing Tony for Connor, not Kreider.

 

[RangersFan1994]

 

[leetch99]

That's proposing Tony for Connor, not Kreider.

Opps...misread that one .

 

[leetch99]

Does having 3 goalies around have them all counting on our Cap despite one not dressing ?

 

[Thirty One]

Does having 3 goalies around have them all counting on our Cap despite one not dressing ?

It does.

 

[thrillhous]

Is it fair to expect that Hank will get very few starts between now and the trade deadline?

 

[Cag29]

all logic says that fox and trouba are going to be around for awhile...the unknown right now is what happens with DeAngelo...if Tony gets locked up long term, then without question Lundkvist probably gets dealt. if they decide to sell high and trade DeAngelo instead then we keep Lundkvist

bit of captain obvious there but its all tied to that decision...i'm a huge lundkvist support but if he gets locked up long term, it would be extremely hard for him to force his way into the lineup

If we trade ADA
Maybe Keane fils in until Nils is ready?

 

[Ola]

I am sorry but the Rangers shouldn't be looking to appease Lundqvist or avoid hurt his feelings. It would be insane to move Georgiev for less than the Rangers want just to keep Lundqvist on the team when everyone knows the Rangers are better off with the two young goaltenders. The Rangers could potentially sign both of them for the immediate term for Lundqvist's $8.5M cap hit. Vasilevskiy has a $3.5M cap hit in the bridge deal he signed a few years ago. Lundqvist annoys the **** out of me when he says he wants to be part of this team when it's turned around and headed in the right direction. He will 40 by then. It is always about him and what he wants. Maybe the Rangers want to go in a different direction. Brooks writes Lundqvist doesn't want to waive his clause. He has earned that right with the NMC but the Rangers shouldn't be afraid to tell him it's the other way too. I get the feeling the Rangers don't want to piss him off. Elliotte Friedman has said on his podcast that he believes the Rangers would prefer to keep Georgiev. You have said the same thing. Other executives have told Elliotte that the Rangers should try to make it work and find a way to keep both young goaltenders because Lundqvist is under contract for just one more season. 6-7 months.

The result of this reasoning has another huge Gorton fiasco written all over it.

Gorton would surely want to drag out the decision between Shesty and Geo until both are on the verge of UFA, with bridge deals all the way up to that point. Then when we are supposed to contend they both have to get top UFA money or we have to give either away for cents on the dollar.

There is just no upside in dragging out the decision between Shesty and Geo forever.

And what is the plan with Lundqvist? Give up a 1st to get rid of his contract? Toronto has to pay a 1st to dump Marleau. Nobody is doing Gorton any favors. So what is the option, to put ourself in a situation so we have to squeeze the kids again next summer just so that Gorton gets another year to choose between three goalies?

The right solution is probably to get a GM that can recognize talent and make the right call at the right time. In this cap environment anyone can get talent. There isn’t a team out there that couldn’t get vastly better with 20m of cap space. What is the point in keeping a youngish goalie around if we are going to bridge deal then until they are on the verge of becoming UFAs right at the time we are supposed to contend?

 

[n8]

Is it fair to expect that Hank will get very few starts between now and the trade deadline?

Maybe sheltered starts so he has the best chance to do well. In the unlikely event he is asked to waive, he is both in game shape and looks good to prospective buyers. Really don't see that happening but would be happy for Hank to win a Cup.

 

[Vitto79]

Hank and Shesterkin get the next 2 games

Georgiev on the Block if a fair offer comes in . I’d take a other Lemieux type young winger. Not expecting a home run he hasn’t played enough games

 

[kinger8998]

Who would those players be....I recall people saying he needed to play with top players to produce....he's playing with top players and not producing.

I would say two top players. And not even Zibanejad+Panarin, I'm saying a duo like Benn-Seguin, Kuznetsov-Ovi, Malkin-Kessel (if it were still a thing), replacing a player on the perfection line.

 

[kinger8998]

It's hard to justify giving very long term to a 2nd line winger putting up 45 point seasons. Especially ones who don't give you much else. He's stronger and more physical than he was--his defensive game has gotten better but none of those things are particular strengths of his. He's just brought those parts of his game to what's average for the league and it's in those areas where his real improvement has come---not so much his offensive game. He's about the same player he has been the last two/three years in that regard--not a better offensive player but a more dependable player away from the puck.

To me if he's not moved by the time his next contract comes around he's very likely to be moved then. I think the Rangers are alright with the kind of money he's making now and might be alright boosting that up to $4 to $4.5 but past that not really and nothing really long term either. 3 or 4 years at most.

Well said. 100% agree

 

[kinger8998]

If this is the comparable for a Jesper Fast contract, no thank you.

Not sure if it's a direct comparable, where Kassian can play with McDavid and already has 13 goals or whatever and brings a dying intimadator/more of a physical vibe, but without McDavid Kassian is a third liner, same as Fast is.

Maximum Fast deal for me is $2.75 @ 3-4 years. That extra 500k that Kassian just got is the difference between signing someone more meaningful to a deal or not.

 

[JimmyG89]

If we trade ADA
Maybe Keane fils in until Nils is ready?

I have a hard time with this because Keane is good in the AHL and his hockey sense should translate to the NHL, but I don't think we're in a position where he should be rushed up.

Yes, he's an AHL all star right now and that should put him on track to be in the NHL soon, but from seeing his game a lot this season, I'm not sure he's ready for it.

Things could change over the next 4 months and hopefully Hartford is poised to go deep in the playoffs, but I think based on how he's been playing that a full year from now in the AHL would do wonders.

If the move is to trade DeAngelo, which I'm opposed to, for Nils and for Keane, we should honestly sign a stop gap for that spot. Let them win that spot on the roster.

We're in a spot on RHD that no player should be rushed up and in fact they should be overripe before a call up is made.

I do believe Keane will be in the NHL and it won't be that long from now, but that is the organization's biggest strength at the moment. We can allocate all the development time for these two cause of this, and we should absolutely exercise this option.

 

[Vitto79]

If this is the comparable for a Jesper Fast contract, no thank you.

Not sure if it's a direct comparable, where Kassian can play with McDavid and already has 13 goals or whatever and brings a dying intimadator/more of a physical vibe, but without McDavid Kassian is a third liner, same as Fast is.

Maximum Fast deal for me is $2.75 @ 3-4 years. That extra 500k that Kassian just got is the difference between signing someone more meaningful to a deal or not.

Fast is solid but I’d get some assets then entertain him or another ufa July 1

 

[kinger8998]

The result of this reasoning has another huge Gorton fiasco written all over it.

Gorton would surely want to drag out the decision between Shesty and Geo until both are on the verge of UFA, with bridge deals all the way up to that point. Then when we are supposed to contend they both have to get top UFA money or we have to give either away for cents on the dollar.

There is just no upside in dragging out the decision between Shesty and Geo forever.

And what is the plan with Lundqvist? Give up a 1st to get rid of his contract? Toronto has to pay a 1st to dump Marleau. Nobody is doing Gorton any favors. So what is the option, to put ourself in a situation so we have to squeeze the kids again next summer just so that Gorton gets another year to choose between three goalies?

The right solution is probably to get a GM that can recognize talent and make the right call at the right time. In this cap environment anyone can get talent. There isn’t a team out there that couldn’t get vastly better with 20m of cap space. What is the point in keeping a youngish goalie around if we are going to bridge deal then until they are on the verge of becoming UFAs right at the time we are supposed to contend?

Shesterkin is the future. For all the small sample size people, he has dominated the KHL, and dominated the AHL in large enough sample sizes. He's shown all the potential. He's played well in his first 3 starts even though that is a small sample size. We cannot afford to overcomplicate this.

Georgiev's value won't be higher. He is not the future, Shesterkin is. Hank can split next year with Shesterkin, and if at that point you see Shesterkin does falter at being a starter(to all the skeptics, he won't), re-sign Hank and continue to platoon them for another 1-2 years. The team system in front of Hank has been awful, but he's one of the best performing goalies in the NHL relative to that. He's not over the hill.

Get the best return for AG right now, because that is the best you'll get. Get a new defensive system in place (don't know if thats a DQ or a Ruff thing?), platoon Hank and Shesty next year, re-sign Hank to 1-year deals until retirement. If by that time Shesterkin isn't the heir, you can look elsewhere, Hank is on 1-year deals for the rest of his career - easy to make that change in summer to sign a guy who will be that starter. Or it buys time for Wall to pan out or Lindbolm to mayeb work his way to being the platoon goalie tandem w Shesterkin when Hank retires.

 

[RGY]

If this is the comparable for a Jesper Fast contract, no thank you.

Not sure if it's a direct comparable, where Kassian can play with McDavid and already has 13 goals or whatever and brings a dying intimadator/more of a physical vibe, but without McDavid Kassian is a third liner, same as Fast is.

Maximum Fast deal for me is $2.75 @ 3-4 years. That extra 500k that Kassian just got is the difference between signing someone more meaningful to a deal or not.

To me this is good for keeping Fast under $3 million. Kassian has better numbers, albeit riding the coattails of McDavid but still better numbers.

Fast 3 years @2.75 max

 

[Shesterkybomb]

That's where the whole returning salary component rears its ugly head again.

Because if you're trading ADA for someone like Connor, aka an established player in a similar age range, you're getting something like Connor's 7x7 contract back --- so it's actually going to cost you as much money, maybe a little more.

Yes but you gained a top 6 player, we already have 2 top 4 dmen on the right side, and a bunch of prospect right dmen. Panarin Strome Connor looks a lot better than Panarin Strome Fast. And your d while, you did lose some scoring from it, say you lost 25 points from losing Deangelo(fox gains some being on pp1, say Keane puts up some) and you gain 70 points in Connor. We would have to be better than we are now, especially if the dman that replaced DeAngelo happened to be better defensively.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The result of this reasoning has another huge Gorton fiasco written all over it.

Gorton would surely want to drag out the decision between Shesty and Geo until both are on the verge of UFA, with bridge deals all the way up to that point. Then when we are supposed to contend they both have to get top UFA money or we have to give either away for cents on the dollar.

There is just no upside in dragging out the decision between Shesty and Geo forever.

And what is the plan with Lundqvist? Give up a 1st to get rid of his contract? Toronto has to pay a 1st to dump Marleau. Nobody is doing Gorton any favors. So what is the option, to put ourself in a situation so we have to squeeze the kids again next summer just so that Gorton gets another year to choose between three goalies?

The right solution is probably to get a GM that can recognize talent and make the right call at the right time. In this cap environment anyone can get talent. There isn’t a team out there that couldn’t get vastly better with 20m of cap space. What is the point in keeping a youngish goalie around if we are going to bridge deal then until they are on the verge of becoming UFAs right at the time we are supposed to contend?

It's not going to be a fiasco.

Geo is gone by this summer at the latest, Shesty and Hank will be your goalies next year.

Writing is on the wall with this one and has been for some time.