Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20 Part XXV

[JimmyG89]

I’m referring to Edge saying we for sure won’t trade Buchnevich for picks or prospects. That we’d have to take money back.

If we were apparently willing or able to do so 7 or 8 months ago, not sure why we COULDNT or WOULDNT do it now if we wanted the cap space.

Getting the #8 pick in the draft before inking Panarin is not the same as trading Buch for picks and prospects right now.

As much as others at the time did not like it, the window to be competitive and win opened on 7/1 when Panarin signed. Trading Buchnevich for anything less than a player that will be on the ice next season does not help.

Yes, we could have Kakko and Kravtsov in the top 6 next season, but who is to say Kravtsov doesn't need time as a 3rd liner or even in the AHL to begin the season. Without Buch, that depth on RW disappears. On top of that, they could be losing Fast. Where are the RWs on this roster at that point? Are we dipping back into UFA to nab a winger, probably someone not as good as Buch, who is also older.

It would be easier to get a player in return than get some picks and prospects and swing another trade with picks and prospects.

There are a lot of ifs even going into next season with this team, and moving Buch without getting someone back that plays in the NHL, that is a forward, you're looking at being in the top 10 of the draft next season.

 

[Ararana]

Great point.

I think the Avs are in a great position. They are just ridiculously loaded with talent, cap space and assets to make deals. They are the only team that I think has a realistic chance of knocking off the Blues and if Sakic sees it the same way, he should do what he can within reason to improve the team.

Avs fan coming in peace.

It appears Sakic's big sticking point is controllable assets. You, I hope, joked earlier about Sakic not giving up a third rounder for Kreider, but literally five months ago he gave up a second and a third rounded for a much inferior player in Burakovsky which many considered an overpayment at the time. The difference, Bura was an RFA and Sakic had control of that situation. It's not like Sakic isn't willing to spend, he just won't spend unless the situation makes sense and he has way too much patience.

Now I think Kreider fits the Avs like a glove right now, more so than Hall, and as you also said earlier Sakic has a ton of assets to work with. We'll see if they get something done. I personally don't think the Avs are going to win the cup this year, the next two years are probably more realistic, so if this goes down I'd like to see it as a trade with mutual interest in an extension.

Word from multiple insiders was Sakic walked away from the Hall discussions when he found out Hall wouldn't talk extension, I'd be shocked if Sakic gave up the assets required for Kreider as a pure rental this season. I'd like Sakic to try to trade for and extend Kreider but my expectation is he'll walk away when the bidding war for him starts ramping up or if Kreider is insistent on going to UFA.

 

[pld459666]

I like the idea of adding Kapanen because of what he brings to the table and because hes a young Finn that may provide a level of comfort to out very own young Finn.

I'm also open to Poolparty for the latter reason.

Maybe both highly touted young Finnish players can help jumpstart the other with Kapanen providing some balance.

 

[East Coast Bias]

As much as others at the time did not like it, the window to be competitive and win opened on 7/1 when Panarin signed.

man they are still a lot of people in this thread acting like this isn't reality.

Trading UFAs you're not going to sign is one thing. but the strip down and bottom out is over.

 

[Kovalev27]

I’ll tell you something else. If we trade Kreider and Fast I still would want Buchnevich and Strome dealt within 12 months. I’m not committing long term to either of them

 

[dshea19]

Avs fan coming in peace.

It appears Sakic's big sticking point is controllable assets. You, I hope, joked earlier about Sakic not giving up a third rounder for Kreider, but literally five months ago he gave up a second and a third rounded for a much inferior player in Burakovsky which many considered an overpayment at the time. The difference, Bura was an RFA and Sakic had control of that situation. It's not like Sakic isn't willing to spend, he just won't spend unless the situation makes sense and he has way too much patience.

Now I think Kreider fits the Avs like a glove right now, more so than Hall, and as you also said earlier Sakic has a ton of assets to work with. We'll see if they get something done. I personally don't think the Avs are going to win the cup this year, the next two years are probably more realistic, so if this goes down I'd like to see it as a trade with mutual interest in an extension.

Word from multiple insiders was Sakic walked away from the Hall discussions when he found out Hall wouldn't talk extension, I'd be shocked if Sakic gave up the assets required for Kreider as a pure rental this season. I'd like Sakic to try to trade for and extend Kreider but my expectation is he'll walk away when the bidding war for him starts ramping up or if Kreider is insistent on going to UFA.

Sakic is smart. We just don't like that he is. We would rather he give up Newhook, MacKinnon, and Makar for Kreider and our 7th. That is trade deadline hysteria.

 

[Edge]

I’ll tell you something else. If we trade Kreider and Fast I still would want Buchnevich and Strome dealt within 12 months. I’m not committing long term to either of them

I'll venture a guess that Strome is here only as long as it takes for Chytil to claim a second line spot, or if there's no one else who clicks as well with Panarin. My money is on the former.

Buch, I don't think is a long-term piece for the Rangers. I think he gets moved, but it's probably more along the lines of what you touched on in another post --- a different type of player or players.

But, we also can't lose sight of the fact that both Buch and Strome have contributed a combined 140 points over the last 110 or so games they've played for the Rangers. That's 1.26 points per game, for a team that is scoring about 3.17 goals per game over the same stretch.

So there's an element of contribution that can be somewhat easy to overlook in our collective fervor to ship these two guys out.

 

[Ararana]

Sakic is smart. We just don't like that he is. We would rather he give up Newhook, MacKinnon, and Makar for Kreider and our 7th. That is trade deadline hysteria.

Kreider is the best forward left on the market, you guys are going to get a good package for him. I was a little surprised by that article, if Kreider showed interest in extending I'd give up our 2020 first and Jost pretty easily for him and wouldn't be surprised if another team beats that offer. But Avs fans are really down on Jost right now.

 

[Edge]

And for those of you wondering why you stick around these boards, even when you want to pull your hair out, the Athletic article is a prime example:

Other people are just now starting to talk about conversations featuring names that we've known about and discussed as being on the Rangers short list for a year at this point. Literally, a year.

Look, rumors can be a very tricky landscape to navigate and there are a lot of moving parts. But there are posters on this board who really do try to give you tangible stuff to work with as soon as they can, or as soon as they can verify the information. And we've seen this a lot over the last 24 months.

 

[dshea19]

Kreider is the best forward left on the market, you guys are going to get a good package for him. I was a little surprised by that article, if Kreider showed interest in extending I'd give up our 2020 first and Jost pretty easily for him and wouldn't be surprised if another team beats that offer. But Avs fans are really down on Jost right now.

We will see what happens. Kreider is perfect for a playoff team. He performs in the playoffs and has size and durability. I assume, like most players, he will opt to wait until the off-season to determine where he signs, which is why there may well be a conditional pick involved in a trade for him.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

And for those of you wondering why you stick around these boards, even when you want to pull your hair out, the Athletic article is a prime example:

Other people are just now starting to talk about conversations featuring names that we've known about and discussed as being on the Rangers short list for a year at this point. Literally, a year.

Look, rumors can be a very tricky landscape to navigate and there are a lot of moving parts. But there are posters on this board who really do try to give you tangible stuff to work with as soon as they can, or as soon as they can verify the information. And we've seen this a lot over the last 24 months.

We appreciate everything you inform us about Edge!

 

[Edge]

We appreciate everything you inform us about Edge!

Totally meant this as a shout out to others on this board as well.

There's a lot to keep track of, especially with a team like the Rangers over the last two or three years. But, if nothing else, hopefully people have been able to get an idea of the thought process and direction of things --- even if they don't always agree with it.

It's so much easier to debate plausible scenarios that have at least been discussed, as opposed to things that aren't really on the radar. Sometimes these things will materialize, sometimes they won't. It may even take a year or two for them to materialize, but it does provide a glimpse into how our team tends to view things and, more importantly, why they view things the way they do.

 

[Leetch3]

And for those of you wondering why you stick around these boards, even when you want to pull your hair out, the Athletic article is a prime example:

Other people are just now starting to talk about conversations featuring names that we've known about and discussed as being on the Rangers short list for a year at this point. Literally, a year.

Look, rumors can be a very tricky landscape to navigate and there are a lot of moving parts. But there are posters on this board who really do try to give you tangible stuff to work with as soon as they can, or as soon as they can verify the information. And we've seen this a lot over the last 24 months.

are we ahead of the curve or are reporters just hacks that repeat the insane ideas they read here? lol

 

[Edge]

are we ahead of the curve or are reporters just hacks that repeat the insane ideas they read here? lol

A lot of reporters will not just lift from a message board, at least if they're any good. They have sources and people they talk to and they'll get the information from them, or seek verification on something they heard. So while they may have first seen something on here, they're not going to run it without making a few calls or sending some texts, DMs, or emails.

Having said that, you have to keep in mind that some of the posters on here know a lot of these same sources. They could be friends, co-workers, etc. In some cases, we might also be friends with the people who later report what you read. As such, there's always a delicate balancing act. Especially in hockey, which tends to be a bit of a closed society.

A lot of us have also promised the mods and owners of this site that we will work hard to verify items before we share them. Sometimes that puts us behind the news, but we have a good track record of being ahead of them.

 

[Lays]

Posted this on the main board too

Ekholm for DeAngelo+2021 1st+Buchnevich
Gives Nashville more offense. Slight overpayment but worth it. Opens up an Ellis trade too

Nils Lundkvist for Alex Tuch in the offseason
Vegas needs RHD. Signed Stone was traded for Brannstrom+2nd, Lundkvist is a much better prospect than Brannstrom and Tuch is worse than Stone

Georgiev+3rd for Andreas Johnsson
Seems pretty fair from all reports. Can add a bit extra to ensure the deal

Strome for 2 2nds
Seems like pretty standard value

Kreider for Frederic+BOS 1st
Works for both teams. I’d try and get Beecher first though I doubt they add a 1st on him for Kreider

Trade 2nd+Andersson for Bennett
Pretty fair I’d think. Bennett and Lias both requested trades, 2nd makes up the gap but if not, can throw in another small piece

Re-Sign Fast
Stud.

Draft Dylan Holloway with our 1st and have him at 2C for the future, move Chytil to Zibanejad’s LW pushing Johnsson and Lemieux down

Draft Jack Finley or Alexander Nikishin with Boston’s first.
Finley-6’6, can skate, and has offensive ability. Replaces Howden at 3C in the future hopefully
Nikishin-Stud Russian D who hits everything. Good offensive and skating ability
Next years lineup-

Johnsson-Zibanejad-Kravtsov
Panarin-Chytil-Kakko
Lemieux-Howden-Tuch
Bennett-Frederic-Fast

Ekholm-Fox
Skjei-Trouba
Lindgren/Rykov/Reunanen/Hajek/Keane

Shesty
Hank

 

[bobbop]

all indication is that JG has no interest in giving him that $$ cause there have reportedly been no negotiations...he isn't even trying to get him on a 'lesser' deal.

There won’t be any negotiations for another two weeks. When there is a conversation, it is probably a take it or leave it offer. Remember, it only takes minutes to do a contract.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Posted this on the main board too

Ekholm for DeAngelo+2021 1st+Buchnevich
Gives Nashville more offense. Slight overpayment but worth it. Opens up an Ellis trade too

What?

We are trading an elite young offensive defenseman, buch, AND a likely top 10-15 first for a 30 year old defenseman??

I wouldn't even trade DeAngelo straight up for him. This trade make zero sense at all.

 

[bobbop]

The Rangers should not trade Georgiev unless they get their return. Go with three goalies next season. 31 games each for the Russians. 20 games for Lundqvist. Larry Brooks wrote the Rangers had to trade Georgiev by the trading deadline because Gorton doesn't want to be sitting at the draft with his best offer being late 2nd's and/or 3rd's. The Rangers should not trade him. Lundqvist will be 38 in March. Three goaltenders again for only one more season. Lundqvist has started 23 games this season. The Rangers have 34 games remaining this season. How many more starts in Lundqvist getting this season? If all three goaltenders on the roster on 2/25, how many starts is Lundqvist getting? He doesn't want to leave and the Rangers don't want to sell Georgiev for 50 cents on the dollar. The only solution is everyone stays for next season.

31-Georgiev
31-Shesterkin
20-Lundqvist. 4/5 games against Carolina.

If the Rangers don’t make a move by July 1, Georgiev will be offer sheeted.

 

[SA16]

If the Rangers don't trade Georgiev by then that means they didn't get a trade offer better than the compensation of the offer sheet so I don't exactly see that as a negative.

 

[JimmyG89]

If the Rangers don't trade Georgiev by then that means they didn't get a trade offer better than the compensation of the offer sheet so I don't exactly see that as a negative.

The negative would be getting 2021 picks instead of getting 2020 picks or prospects further along. Adds time for those players to be in the NHL or at least assets that could be used to get the players they want.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Posted this on the main board too

Ekholm for DeAngelo+2021 1st+Buchnevich
Gives Nashville more offense. Slight overpayment but worth it. Opens up an Ellis trade too

Nils Lundkvist for Alex Tuch in the offseason
Vegas needs RHD. Signed Stone was traded for Brannstrom+2nd, Lundkvist is a much better prospect than Brannstrom and Tuch is worse than Stone

Georgiev+3rd for Andreas Johnsson
Seems pretty fair from all reports. Can add a bit extra to ensure the deal

Strome for 2 2nds
Seems like pretty standard value

Kreider for Frederic+BOS 1st
Works for both teams. I’d try and get Beecher first though I doubt they add a 1st on him for Kreider

Trade 2nd+Andersson for Bennett
Pretty fair I’d think. Bennett and Lias both requested trades, 2nd makes up the gap but if not, can throw in another small piece

WTF did I just read...

 

[SA16]

The negative would be getting 2021 picks instead of getting 2020 picks or prospects further along. Adds time for those players to be in the NHL or at least assets that could be used to get the players they want.

Well that's independent of the offer sheet though. If he's not traded by July 1 that's after the draft anyway so any trade at that point would be for 2021 picks (if it included picks). But yes that would in general be a negative.

 

[RangerBoy]

If the Rangers don’t make a move by July 1, Georgiev will be offer sheeted.

These were the numbers for last season.



Georgiev isn't signing a cheap long term contract. If another team wants to sign to an offer sheet and the Rangers don't want to match, the Rangers will take the picks which are worth more than what the Rangers could get in a trade. I would take the picks and flip them for a player. If it's a short term contract, the Rangers match. He is 3 years away from group III. The Rangers cap isn't in such dire straits. They could execute a buyout in the summer by having an arbitration case.

The Rangers should not be scared of an offer sheet.

 

[Leetch3]

There won’t be any negotiations for another two weeks. When there is a conversation, it is probably a take it or leave it offer. Remember, it only takes minutes to do a contract.

it only takes minutes if you are making a take it or leave it offer cause you don't really want to keep the guy...probably would take longer to have a legit negotiations if you want to keep him but can only go so high on the cap..

 

[Leetch3]

A lot of reporters will not just lift from a message board, at least if they're any good. They have sources and people they talk to and they'll get the information from them, or seek verification on something they heard. So while they may have first seen something on here, they're not going to run it without making a few calls or sending some texts, DMs, or emails.

Having said that, you have to keep in mind that some of the posters on here know a lot of these same sources. They could be friends, co-workers, etc. In some cases, we might also be friends with the people who later report what you read. As such, there's always a delicate balancing act. Especially in hockey, which tends to be a bit of a closed society.

A lot of us have also promised the mods and owners of this site that we will work hard to verify items before we share them. Sometimes that puts us behind the news, but we have a good track record of being ahead of them.

comment was obviously a joke...everyone knows that the true measure of a reporters credibility is how much I agree with what they are saying