Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20 Part XXV

  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
  • We're expeting server maintenance on March 3rd starting at midnight, there may be downtime during the work.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Avs fan coming in peace.

It appears Sakic's big sticking point is controllable assets. You, I hope, joked earlier about Sakic not giving up a third rounder for Kreider, but literally five months ago he gave up a second and a third rounded for a much inferior player in Burakovsky which many considered an overpayment at the time. The difference, Bura was an RFA and Sakic had control of that situation. It's not like Sakic isn't willing to spend, he just won't spend unless the situation makes sense and he has way too much patience.

Now I think Kreider fits the Avs like a glove right now, more so than Hall, and as you also said earlier Sakic has a ton of assets to work with. We'll see if they get something done. I personally don't think the Avs are going to win the cup this year, the next two years are probably more realistic, so if this goes down I'd like to see it as a trade with mutual interest in an extension.

Word from multiple insiders was Sakic walked away from the Hall discussions when he found out Hall wouldn't talk extension, I'd be shocked if Sakic gave up the assets required for Kreider as a pure rental this season. I'd like Sakic to try to trade for and extend Kreider but my expectation is he'll walk away when the bidding war for him starts ramping up or if Kreider is insistent on going to UFA.

Oh absolutely. I was being facetious, just trying to underscore the point that he can be a major tightwad. Which, to be fair has worked out well for him because he is a good GM, as opposed to someone like Kevin Cheveldayoff who was also notoriously cheap but a terrible GM.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ararana
These were the numbers for last season.



Georgiev isn't signing a cheap long term contract. If another team wants to sign to an offer sheet and the Rangers don't want to match, the Rangers will take the picks which are worth more than what the Rangers could get in a trade. I would take the picks and flip them for a player. If it's a short term contract, the Rangers match. He is 3 years away from group III. The Rangers cap isn't in such dire straits. They could execute a buyout in the summer by having an arbitration case.

The Rangers should not be scared of an offer sheet.



#goodproblems
 
I’ll tell you something else. If we trade Kreider and Fast I still would want Buchnevich and Strome dealt within 12 months. I’m not committing long term to either of them
then who is dressing at forward? DiGiuseppe, Lettieri, Fogarty, Gettinger? Thats a horrible roster.
 
Posted this on the main board too

Ekholm for DeAngelo+2021 1st+Buchnevich
Gives Nashville more offense. Slight overpayment but worth it. Opens up an Ellis trade too

Nils Lundkvist for Alex Tuch in the offseason
Vegas needs RHD. Signed Stone was traded for Brannstrom+2nd, Lundkvist is a much better prospect than Brannstrom and Tuch is worse than Stone

Georgiev+3rd for Andreas Johnsson
Seems pretty fair from all reports. Can add a bit extra to ensure the deal

Strome for 2 2nds
Seems like pretty standard value

Kreider for Frederic+BOS 1st
Works for both teams. I’d try and get Beecher first though I doubt they add a 1st on him for Kreider

Trade 2nd+Andersson for Bennett
Pretty fair I’d think. Bennett and Lias both requested trades, 2nd makes up the gap but if not, can throw in another small piece

Re-Sign Fast
Stud.

Draft Dylan Holloway with our 1st and have him at 2C for the future, move Chytil to Zibanejad’s LW pushing Johnsson and Lemieux down

Draft Jack Finley or Alexander Nikishin with Boston’s first.
Finley-6’6, can skate, and has offensive ability. Replaces Howden at 3C in the future hopefully
Nikishin-Stud Russian D who hits everything. Good offensive and skating ability
Next years lineup-

Johnsson-Zibanejad-Kravtsov
Panarin-Chytil-Kakko
Lemieux-Howden-Tuch
Bennett-Frederic-Fast

Ekholm-Fox
Skjei-Trouba
Lindgren/Rykov/Reunanen/Hajek/Keane

Shesty
Hank

Those first two deals are so atrociously bad it isn't even funny. The Rangers would not make that swap straight up, let alone adding a 1st + Buch.

Additionally, Lundkvist for Tuch?!?!?!?!? A guy who has 13 points in 35 games? No. If Lundkvist goes, it is because we are acquiring a top tier talent. Not Alex freakin' Tuch.
 
Last edited:
Ekholm for DeAngelo+2021 1st+Buchnevich
Gives Nashville more offense. Slight overpayment but worth it.

I think Ekholm is one of the most underrated players in the league but this is madness. No chance in trading the 2021 1st unless it’s moved next deadline because we’ve become a top team in the league. I’m not sold on our window opening as soon as some think. I’m golden on 21-22, iffy on next year.
 
Posted this on the main board too

Ekholm for DeAngelo+2021 1st+Buchnevich
Gives Nashville more offense. Slight overpayment but worth it. Opens up an Ellis trade too

Nils Lundkvist for Alex Tuch in the offseason
Vegas needs RHD. Signed Stone was traded for Brannstrom+2nd, Lundkvist is a much better prospect than Brannstrom and Tuch is worse than Stone

Georgiev+3rd for Andreas Johnsson
Seems pretty fair from all reports. Can add a bit extra to ensure the deal

Strome for 2 2nds
Seems like pretty standard value

Kreider for Frederic+BOS 1st
Works for both teams. I’d try and get Beecher first though I doubt they add a 1st on him for Kreider

Trade 2nd+Andersson for Bennett
Pretty fair I’d think. Bennett and Lias both requested trades, 2nd makes up the gap but if not, can throw in another small piece

Re-Sign Fast
Stud.

Draft Dylan Holloway with our 1st and have him at 2C for the future, move Chytil to Zibanejad’s LW pushing Johnsson and Lemieux down

Draft Jack Finley or Alexander Nikishin with Boston’s first.
Finley-6’6, can skate, and has offensive ability. Replaces Howden at 3C in the future hopefully
Nikishin-Stud Russian D who hits everything. Good offensive and skating ability
Next years lineup-

Johnsson-Zibanejad-Kravtsov
Panarin-Chytil-Kakko
Lemieux-Howden-Tuch
Bennett-Frederic-Fast

Ekholm-Fox
Skjei-Trouba
Lindgren/Rykov/Reunanen/Hajek/Keane

Shesty
Hank
ummmmmm what???
 
WTF did I just read...:facepalm:
Somethings cannot be unseen.

You know, I gave bern a lot of flack over the years for some of his unrealistic ideas but at least his proposals usually ended lopsidedly in the Rangers favor. These? Good god. If they happened Gorton should be fired on the spot, hired, then fired again and then banned from ever entering MSG.
 
Those first two deals are so atrociously bad it isn't even funny. The Rangers would not make that swap straight up, let alone adding a 1st + Buch.

Additionally, Lundkvist for Tuch?!?!?!?!? A guy who has 13 points in 35 games? No. If Lundkvist goes, it is because we are acquiring a top tier talent. Not Alex freakin' Tuch.
Tuch is being buried on Vegas. He’s a great 2nd line winger with relentless forechecking and a beast in the playoffs. Kind of like Kreider. He’ll drive the 3rd line and can move up and down
I think Ekholm is one of the most underrated players in the league but this is madness. No chance in trading the 2021 1st unless it’s moved next deadline because we’ve become a top team in the league. I’m not sold on our window opening as soon as some think. I’m golden on 21-22, iffy on next year.
we don’t need the 2021 first. We’ll be a playoff team with that lineup and we’ll have depth in all positions by then. Ekholm is a 1D and you have to pay to get that.
 
Word from multiple insiders was Sakic walked away from the Hall discussions when he found out Hall wouldn't talk extension, I'd be shocked if Sakic gave up the assets required for Kreider as a pure rental this season. I'd like Sakic to try to trade for and extend Kreider but my expectation is he'll walk away when the bidding war for him starts ramping up or if Kreider is insistent on going to UFA.
That implies Sakic never being willing to push all of his chips to the center of the table and say "We are going for it". Which is fine, but if competing for a Cup, that may put you behind some of the other teams that have decided that they have the horses and are making a run.
 
Tuch is being buried on Vegas. He’s a great 2nd line winger with relentless forechecking and a beast in the playoffs. Kind of like Kreider. He’ll drive the 3rd line and can move up and down

we don’t need the 2021 first. We’ll be a playoff team with that lineup and we’ll have depth in all positions by then. Ekholm is a 1D and you have to pay to get that.

Great! That isn't the kind of guy you trade a prospect like Lundkvist for. The only way I'm trading Lundkvist to Vegas is it is in a deal where Cody Glass is coming back, not Alex Tuch. Even then, I'd prefer to hold on to Lundkvist because he really does have the potential to be something special.

Also, even if we don't "need" the 2021 first, that doesn't change how bad of a deal it is. DeAngelo is 24 and outscoring Ekholm. You don't add to DeAngelo to get Ekholm - a guy that will be a UFA IN TWO YEARS. If Poile came to the Rangers and offered Ekholm for DeAngelo, I'd politely tell him to go perform a physical impossibility. It makes no sense for us and is SO bad value wise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bobbop
These were the numbers for last season.



Georgiev isn't signing a cheap long term contract. If another team wants to sign to an offer sheet and the Rangers don't want to match, the Rangers will take the picks which are worth more than what the Rangers could get in a trade. I would take the picks and flip them for a player. If it's a short term contract, the Rangers match. He is 3 years away from group III. The Rangers cap isn't in such dire straits. They could execute a buyout in the summer by having an arbitration case.

The Rangers should not be scared of an offer sheet.

So if someone (Detroit, Ottawa) offered Georgiev $4MM a year for two years, do you want to match that? You get a high second for your trouble. And if you do match, you can't move Georgiev for a year.

I think the Rangers can do a little better than that.
 
Speaking of top prospects who bust, I can’t understand sometimes the number of HF board people who refuse to give up 1st or 2nd round picks like they’re gold. You’re selling players who are players who are contributing to their respective clubs and will potentially help fill a role on the new club.
It’s a fact of life on here, and in kindergarten: my stuff’s great and your stuff’s poo.
 
Sakic would say no to Kreider for a 3rd round pick.

Here is the problem for Joe. Whether he wants to realize it or not, the next 2 years will be his best shot at winning a cup. Makar is on an entry level contract. MacKinnon is playing like an MVP. Landeskog is a up for a new contract after next season, Kadri the season after and Mackinnon the season after that. Right now you are getting some great value out of these players. You can afford to load up and swing big. You have the talent.

There is a saying - people who are cheap end up spending double the amount. You do it the cheap way then you have to pay up anyway to have it done the right way. I'm not suggesting that Sakic should cave on JG's asking price for Kreider. Maybe there is another option. I am just saying he doesn't have the luxury of time like he did in the Duchene deal and his cheapness could cost him in the long run.
It is literally a redux of Winnipeg with Chevy
 
Tuch is being buried on Vegas. He’s a great 2nd line winger with relentless forechecking and a beast in the playoffs. Kind of like Kreider. He’ll drive the 3rd line and can move up and down

we don’t need the 2021 first. We’ll be a playoff team with that lineup and we’ll have depth in all positions by then. Ekholm is a 1D and you have to pay to get that.

That assumption is entirely riding on solid development of young players. While I agree we’re in good shape, I’m not making an unnecessary early gamble. The soonest a rebuilding team should consider moving 1st round picks is upon realization of an immediate successful run. I don’t have full confidence yet the Rangers break the playoffs.

Which one of these teams will we definitively be better than next season?

Tampa
Pittsburgh
Toronto
Carolina
Boston
Florida
Washington
Philadelphia

I give it a 50/50 shot we make the cut (as of now).
 
  • Like
Reactions: leetch99
I can already tell you that the Rangers will not go with a three goalie rotation for an entire season.

It's just not going to happen.

I am sorry but the Rangers shouldn't be looking to appease Lundqvist or avoid hurt his feelings. It would be insane to move Georgiev for less than the Rangers want just to keep Lundqvist on the team when everyone knows the Rangers are better off with the two young goaltenders. The Rangers could potentially sign both of them for the immediate term for Lundqvist's $8.5M cap hit. Vasilevskiy has a $3.5M cap hit in the bridge deal he signed a few years ago. Lundqvist annoys the shit out of me when he says he wants to be part of this team when it's turned around and headed in the right direction. He will 40 by then. It is always about him and what he wants. Maybe the Rangers want to go in a different direction. Brooks writes Lundqvist doesn't want to waive his clause. He has earned that right with the NMC but the Rangers shouldn't be afraid to tell him it's the other way too. I get the feeling the Rangers don't want to piss him off. Elliotte Friedman has said on his podcast that he believes the Rangers would prefer to keep Georgiev. You have said the same thing. Other executives have told Elliotte that the Rangers should try to make it work and find a way to keep both young goaltenders because Lundqvist is under contract for just one more season. 6-7 months.
 
then who is dressing at forward? DiGiuseppe, Lettieri, Fogarty, Gettinger? Thats a horrible roster.

Am I giving them away? Nooooo we obviously get bodies back.


As I’ve said I’d trade them for futures now to make cap space to sign Kreider and DeAngelo but if I’m trading Kreider and Fast I’m going to get guys back and I’ll get guys back for Strome and Buchy when it comes down to it.
 
Posted this on the main board too

Ekholm for DeAngelo+2021 1st+Buchnevich
Gives Nashville more offense. Slight overpayment but worth it. Opens up an Ellis trade too

Nils Lundkvist for Alex Tuch in the offseason
Vegas needs RHD. Signed Stone was traded for Brannstrom+2nd, Lundkvist is a much better prospect than Brannstrom and Tuch is worse than Stone

Georgiev+3rd for Andreas Johnsson
Seems pretty fair from all reports. Can add a bit extra to ensure the deal

Strome for 2 2nds
Seems like pretty standard value

Kreider for Frederic+BOS 1st
Works for both teams. I’d try and get Beecher first though I doubt they add a 1st on him for Kreider

Trade 2nd+Andersson for Bennett
Pretty fair I’d think. Bennett and Lias both requested trades, 2nd makes up the gap but if not, can throw in another small piece

Re-Sign Fast
Stud.

Draft Dylan Holloway with our 1st and have him at 2C for the future, move Chytil to Zibanejad’s LW pushing Johnsson and Lemieux down

Draft Jack Finley or Alexander Nikishin with Boston’s first.
Finley-6’6, can skate, and has offensive ability. Replaces Howden at 3C in the future hopefully
Nikishin-Stud Russian D who hits everything. Good offensive and skating ability
Next years lineup-

Johnsson-Zibanejad-Kravtsov
Panarin-Chytil-Kakko
Lemieux-Howden-Tuch
Bennett-Frederic-Fast

Ekholm-Fox
Skjei-Trouba
Lindgren/Rykov/Reunanen/Hajek/Keane

Shesty
Hank
Why the f*** are we ADDING a first and Buch to ADA for Ekholm?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
One thing I picked up watching the AHL all star game is the reason why Bracco probably hasn't gotten called up by the Leafs is how small he really is. Since he's been in the AHL, they've called up numerous other forwards that have less of a pedigree in the AHL.

Timashov and Engvall have done less at that level. That is a concern for me when I see the Bracco+2nd offers. You get some Danny Kristo vibes from him. You can talk about their log jam at wing, but the amount of injuries, he never got the call up.

It could be that he's tired of being in the AHL, but even this season, his production is down. I think the risk in a move like that is too big to take when I think we could get a player that could turn into a solid 3rd liner instead of being a boom/bust player.
 
I am sorry but the Rangers shouldn't be looking to appease Lundqvist or avoid hurt his feelings. It would be insane to move Georgiev for less than the Rangers want just to keep Lundqvist on the team when everyone knows the Rangers are better off with the two young goaltenders. The Rangers could potentially sign both of them for the immediate term for Lundqvist's $8.5M cap hit. Vasilevskiy has a $3.5M cap hit in the bridge deal he signed a few years ago. Lundqvist annoys the **** out of me when he says he wants to be part of this team when it's turned around and headed in the right direction. He will 40 by then. It is always about him and what he wants. Maybe the Rangers want to go in a different direction. Brooks writes Lundqvist doesn't want to waive his clause. He has earned that right with the NMC but the Rangers shouldn't be afraid to tell him it's the other way too. I get the feeling the Rangers don't want to piss him off. Elliotte Friedman has said on his podcast that he believes the Rangers would prefer to keep Georgiev. You have said the same thing. Other executives have told Elliotte that the Rangers should try to make it work and find a way to keep both young goaltenders because Lundqvist is under contract for just one more season. 6-7 months.

I would say the Rangers would feel a sense of relief if it looked like Lundqvist was okay riding off into the sunset after this season.

But I just don't see a scenario where they go with three goalies for all of next season. If for no other reason than I highly doubt Shesterkin would stick around through all of that.

If Lundqvist stays, I'd say it's 99 percent certain that a young goalie leaves. Whether that's Shesterkin back to Russia (doubtful) or Georgiev gets traded (probable) remains to be seen.
 
Not that I want either player but why do I see Buch as being the one that goes for Puljujarvi?

I feel like that would be the worst possible spot for Buchnevich to go for Rangers fans sake. He is instantly going to be a 70 point player (due to McDavid/Draisatl) and our fanbase will be on suicide watch if Puljujarvi doesn't pan out (which is a real possibility).
 
  • Like
Reactions: NYR
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad