Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20 Part XXV

[TheBloodyNine]

Several months back I heard it mentioned a few times and shared the concept on here. However, that was before Strome's chemistry with Panarin was as evident. I'm not sure the Rangers moving Strome is as likely as it was once. So that one is TBD.

I'm just talking about package deals in general. Would love to hear more that the Rangers are trying to maximize assets to get the best players they can back by putting a couple of guys together in a package. For example, what about a Georgiev + Kreider trade?

 

[Edge]

I have no idea what Gorton is doing frankly. And I’m not saying that necessarily in a bad way I just don’t see any movement on any front.

hasn’t even had a conversation with kreiders team or Fasts.

hasn’t locked up any rfas. My guess is hasn’t talked to them either.

has this 3 goalie clown car going on while hank sits there playing once a month.

There’s patience and then there’s sitting on your hands. Would it be smarter to get tony signed today instead of when he’s sitting at the end of the year with 60 plus? Pens just locked up a young dman long term.

I think they're fielding offers on guys, gauging what the market is for certain pieces, and taking their time. If Gorton has shown one thing, it's that he's not really a guy who makes spontaneous decisions. He gauges the market, compares prices and bides his time. Considering Kreider represents the last of his big ticket UFA deadline moves, I don't think he deviates from that approach.

I don't think the RFA this is going to see much movement until after the TDL.

The three goalie system was something that's been talked about for months, so they really aren't drifting from that approach yet.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Custance hasn't said a nice thing about the Rangers in his life. He's another Ken Campbell. So I'm surprised that the article was designed to **** on the Rangers.

I haven't noticed a bias in his stuff about the Rangers.

The unnamed exec is an idiot though.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Takes two to tango.

Given Tony's behavior this past summer, do you really think he's at all likely to meet the team midway on a "reasonable" deal for both parties?

Yeah I agree

I'd be very surprised if Tony was even interested in having conversations right now. He strikes me as someone that won't want a long term deal at this moment

I'd love for Gorton to get out in front of the deadline but he seems to like to wait until the last moments

 

[RGY]

Until I hear otherwise, my expectations for potential trade returns are what they were a few months ago.

Kreider for a first and B prospect.

Georgiev for a second, unless he bundles in a package.

Strome for a second and a third.

A package of Strome and Georgiev would probably be more enticing for teams.

Fast for a third.

I especially say that as "trade fever" reaches its pitch and the return from fantasy deals just keep going up and up and up.

Draft picks and prospects would not help this team in the next 2 years as it tries to make its transition. And management is not going to sit here with Panarin recently signed to wait more than 2 years.

So if they have to add a 2nd to Georgiev to get Kapanen then thats what they need to do.

They need to come away with a roster player for Kreider even if that player is on the Providence Bruins.

And with all of their assets they need to take advantage when a kid like Josh Anderson may be available. Will it be Anderson, i dont know. But they need to be exploring deals like that.

Like @Bleed Ranger Blue said, they need to diversify the forward group. You need a mix of ingredients to build a successful team. This team works hard and plays hard under DQ. I give them that. But they dont play relentless enough. They dont play physical enough. They dont exhaust teams, especially the defensemen, with that constant pressure below the goal line, banging bodies. Wearing them down for the Panarin and Zib line.

 

[Edge]

I'm just talking about package deals in general. Would love to hear more that the Rangers are trying to maximize assets to get the best players they can back by putting a couple of guys together in a package. For example, what about a Georgiev + Kreider trade?

Any number of combinations is possible, some are just less likely than others.

For example, Strome and Georgiev could have a market in the offseason, but Kreider and Georgiev probably aren't a pairing because most teams interested in Kreider will be viewing him as a final piece. And most teams looking at final pieces aren't typically looking for a backup goalie, or a guy who could start for them in a few years.

 

[Kovalev27]

We are way better over the next 3 to 5 years with

Kreider DeAngelo

than we are with

Strome Fast Buchnevich Staal

that’s really all there is to it for me.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Draft picks and prospects would not help this team in the next 2 years as it tries to make its transition. And management is not going to sit here with Panarin recently signed to wait more than 2 years.

Disagree

If you're looking at those prospects and picks in a vacuum that's potentially correct. But it gives the team more ammunition to make a move for a better NHL player

 

[Edge]

Draft picks and prospects would not help this team in the next 2 years as it tries to make its transition. And management is not going to sit here with Panarin recently signed to wait more than 2 years.

So if they have to add a 2nd to Georgiev to get Kapanen then thats what they need to do.

They need to come away with a roster player for Kreider even if that player is on the Providence Bruins.

And with all of their assets they need to take advantage when a kid like Josh Anderson may be available. Will it be Anderson, i dont know. But they need to be exploring deals like that.

Like @Bleed Ranger Blue said, they need to diversify the forward group. You need a mix of ingredients to build a successful team. This team works hard and plays hard under DQ. I give them that. But they dont play relentless enough. They dont play physical enough. They dont exhaust teams, especially the defensemen, with that constant pressure below the goal line, banging bodies. Wearing them down for the Panarin and Zib line.

I definitely think that's the preference and that's what they'll be pushing for.

Whether they get it is another matter.

At some point the Rangers can ask all they want for a young roster player as part of a three piece deal for Kreider. But if the buyers aren't there, they aren't there.

So at that point you pivot and you make the deal you can.

We have to be careful about getting fixated on certain names because they were used in examples. The Rangers like Kapanen, he was used in an example on Twitter. But none of it really matters if he's not on the table. The Rangers could add a second, a prospect, whatever they want, and it won't really change the fact that he's not on the table. Same for Labanc or Jost or Lauko or whoever.

We don't really know what other teams have deemed available. The Rangers will certainly explore a plethora of avenues this TDL and this offseason. It's the two to tango aspect that we need to keep in mind though.

 

[LORDE]

Is being cheap supposed to be an insult towards him? Because as far as I can tell all it means is that he isn't willing to make a bad deal. Seemed to work quite well for him with Duchene

Not an insult just a way of forming an opinion about who Gorton ‘may’ be dealing with and how DIFFICULT it would be if he were the trading partner. People here are still tail-hurt about Yzerman

 

[RGY]

Disagree

If you're looking at those prospects and picks in a vacuum that's potentially correct. But it gives the team more ammunition to make a move for a better NHL player

For me they have to come away with One NHL body during this deadline.

Georgiev + for Labanc/Kapanen is what has to happen.

If Kreider goes, that gets you a 2nd NHL body at minimum. Boston has a plethora of young players they could live without to go all in for a cup this year after being bounced by the Blues last year. Frederic, JFK, Studnicka, Lauko, Zboril, Senyshyn, Bjork. All kids that could get time right now with the Rangers.

So for me, if youre moving those two, you should be coming away with at least Two NHL level players that can suit up right now.

You get your draft picks in a deal for Fast.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Strome and Georgiev is an interesting package deal that I've thought about in some of the hypothetical capfriendly teams I've built out previously

I'm still worried about Strome at this point though. I get it, chemistry is hard to come by, but I'm not comfortable giving him a deal with term. 1-2 years I could stomach, anything more I'm not interested.

 

[Edge]

We are way better over the next 3 to 5 years with

Kreider DeAngelo

than we are with

Strome Fast Buchnevich Staal

that’s really all there is to it for me.

And if salary caps weren't an issue, and every player signs for the amount we want and not the amount they can get elsewhere, we could ice a team with everyone we want to keep.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

For me they have to come away with One NHL body during this deadline.

Georgiev + for Labanc/Kapanen is what has to happen.

If Kreider goes, that gets you a 2nd NHL body at minimum. Boston has a plethora of young players they could live without to go all in for a cup this year after being bounced by the Blues last year. Frederic, JFK, Studnicka, Lauko, Zboril, Senyshyn, Bjork. All kids that could get time right now with the Rangers.

So for me, if youre moving those two, you should be coming away with at least Two NHL level players that can suit up right now.

You get your draft picks in a deal for Fast.

I don't necessarily disagree, I think at the minimum they'll get one NHL body at the deadline (most likely for Kreider). But if Georgiev doesn't bring back an NHL player I don't know if it's the end of the world depending on the return.

It's a delicate process with Gerogiev, and it could blow up in their face. If they draw things out till the summer, and Henrik doesn't waive or retire (which seems more likely than not), they'll be forced to move Georgiev and teams know this. Right now they have deniability because what will happen is unknown

 

[Kovalev27]

And if salary caps weren't an issue, and every player signs for the amount we want and not the amount they can get elsewhere, we could ice a team with everyone we want to keep.

my post very clearly subtracts a ton of salary to keep the two best players imo that make us better. I didn’t just say we are better if we keep Kreider and DeAngelo and do nothing else so this post is irrelevant.

 

[bobbop]

there's no such thing as a sure thing. especially not one available for trade.

the prediction game is also kind of tough. 2-3 years ago the Canadiens were complete morons trading away a superior defenseman for an aging crazy expensive barnacle that was going to sink them cap wise for the next decade. All the stats said so! And right now Shea Weber is roughly 10 times the player the corpse of PK Subban is.

The Canadians analytic guy argued against the trade so loudly he was fired.

 

[Edge]

my post very clearly subtracts a ton of salary to keep the two best players imo that make us better. I didn’t just say we are better if we keep Kreider and DeAngelo and do nothing else so this post is irrelevant.

And we're right back to the argument of who the hell are you trading these guys for and what kind of salary are the bringing back?

We've been down this path before.

Because without even accounting for trading those guys and somehow not taking on salary, we subtract salary and just committed $12 million to two players. So that means we now have a roster with close to $33 million committed to two LWs and two RDs.

And we would still be left with a bunch of holes to fill.

 

[Leetch3]

Until I hear otherwise, my expectations for potential trade returns are what they were a few months ago.

Kreider for a first and B prospect.

Georgiev for a second, unless he bundles in a package.

Strome for a second and a third.

A package of Strome and Georgiev would probably be more enticing for teams.

Fast for a third.

I especially say that as "trade fever" reaches its pitch and the return from fantasy deals just keep going up and up and up.

probably very realistic but boy is this place gonna implode. i'm already eyerolling at the instant claims that we are the oilers/sabres and in a forever rebuild

 

[Edge]

probably very realistic but boy is this place gonna implode. i'm already eyerolling at the instant claims that we are the oilers/sabres and in a forever rebuild

It's already bubbling under the surface.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

We are way better over the next 3 to 5 years with

Kreider DeAngelo

than we are with

Strome Fast Buchnevich Staal

that’s really all there is to it for me.

Yeah, I agree.

I see people saying to trade Kreider but re-sign Strome and Fast but their cap hits together would likely equal or possibly surpass what Kreider gets and I'd rather have Kreider than both of them.

 

[LORDE]

I'm sure this exec would have said the same thing about the Nash and Hayes deals. And maybe we are. Sometimes you get your asking price, sometimes you don't.

With that being said, there is more at play than just the price tag here. How much pressure is on the GM to make the playoffs and get that extra revenue? Is the GM on the hot seat and actually has to make some noise in the playoffs? Is the GM on solid ground and can afford to wait another year before making a big splash?

Not to mention the personality of said GM. In the COL trade, which actually FEELS like the more reasonable of the 3... I wouldn’t even think twice about Sakic saying no. I’d FULLY expect that.

 

[Kovalev27]

And we're right back to the argument of who the hell are you trading these guys for and what kinds of salary are the bringing back.

We've been down this path before.

Because without even accounting for trading those guys and somehow not taking on salary, we subtract salary and just committed $12 million to two players. So that means we now have a roster with close to $33 million committed to two LWs and two RDs.

And we would still have a bunch of holes to fill.

I’m totally fine with that. One of those 2 left wings is a super star player. So just bucketing him in like oh we committed to a winger is silly. He changes his entire line. You pay your superstars. The other wing is your second best winger. Paying a top line wing 7 mil is hardly rare. Most teams do.

right Dmen hardest thing to find. You have two studs one of which is putting up top 5 pts as a dman you pay them.

you don’t pay marginal players in this league. Buchnevich Strome Fast Staal. All non core players. All can be dealt for futures and or in Staals case a buy out. Fast is a ufa you aren’t taking salary back. Buchy and Strome you don’t need to take salary back on those guys.

your holes are filled by young guys which is what you do in a cap league.

Kravtsov is coming in. Chytil should be in the top 6 Kakko by next year should be in the top 6 if not now. So you’re replacing Buchy Strome and Fast. Hardly the end of the world. Especially considering georgiev is going to get a player back Gorton will die on that hill.

 

[RangerBoy]

There is a reason why Josh Anderson is available. Portzline wrote about him yesterday. He is one year away from group III and he is looking for big money($6M per?) in his next big contract after having a messy contract battle three years ago. Arbitration eligible. One year contract and Anderson is free to walk. He hurt his shoulder in the Boston series last year. They did not perform surgery so he rehabbed the injury and he wasn't healthy at the start of training camp. He was not 100% when he reported to camp. Anderson has missed the last 6 weeks with a shoulder injury. Same shoulder? Different shoulder? It doesn't really matter. The guy has two bad shoulders or one really bad shoulder. He has not been the same physical force this season with the shoulder injuries. He has had an awful season so far when he was "healthy" enough to play.

 

[Kovalev27]

Yeah, I agree.

I see people saying to trade Kreider but re-sign Strome and Fast but their cap hits together would likely equal or possibly surpass what Kreider gets and I'd rather have Kreider than both of them.

exactly I rather have Kreider and a guy on an elc or his secon contract than paying Strome 5 mil and Fast 3 mil.

 

[Edge]

I’m totally fine with that. One of those 2 left wings is a super star player. So just bucketing him in like oh we committed to a winger is silly. He changes his entire line. You pay your superstars. The other wing is your second best winger. Paying a top line wing 7 mil is hardly rare. Most teams do.

right Dmen hardest thing to find. You have two studs one of which is putting up top 5 pts as a dman you pay them.

you don’t pay marginal players in this league. Buchnevich Strome Fast Staal. All non core players. All can be dealt for futures and or in Staals case a buy out. Fast is a ufa you aren’t taking salary back. Buchy and Strome you don’t need to take salary back on those guys.

your holes are filled by young guys which is what you do in a cap league.

Kravtsov is coming in. Chytil should be in the top 6 Kakko by next year should be in the top 6. So you’re replacing Buchy Strome and Fast. Hardly the end of the world. Especially considering georgiev is going to get a player back Gorton will die on that hill.

And there we are, I am not comfortable committing that type of money with all the holes we still have. I do not want to give Kreider 7x7.

I've never been comfortable giving him 7x7 or 7x6. I won't be comfortable giving him that contract a month from now. And at least 60-70 percent of this board feels that way. The number might even be higher because some of the re-sign Kreider crowd wasn't even comfortable with 7x6 or 7x7 price point.

I'm not sure the Rangers have ever been comfortable with that concept, which is why we're here.

So I get all that, but it just ain't that popular of a stance.