Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20 Part XXV

[Shesterkybomb]

Kreider gone
Fast resigned
Strome resigned
Unfortunately deangelo gone
Georgiev gone

The last two I'm not overly happy about but in a cap world DeAngelo gets moved and the 3 goalie thing doesnt work.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Yeah, I think it’s important to separate the prospect ranking part from the making it in the NHL part.

I do think that Lauko was underrated and that many players picked ahead of him has much less potential. But when we look back at these drafts in 15-20 years, 1/3 of the top 10 will be busts and there will be a very slim group of true difference makers annually.

Would I bet on Lauko making it even money? Never. But I wouldn’t write him off and I think that he has some upside.

But those odds are what we are dealing with. A top 10 pick is far from a sure thing. Prospects are always question marks. Someone like Frederick is probably a player. But with limited potential.

Speaking of top prospects who bust, I can’t understand sometimes the number of HF board people who refuse to give up 1st or 2nd round picks like they’re gold. You’re selling players who are players who are contributing to their respective clubs and will potentially help fill a role on the new club.

 

[wafflepadsave]

And this has been Gorton’s approach from the beginning - add the depth pieces in the asset sell off and use the first round of the draft to add the skill pieces. If the Rangers remain fortunate, they get one more skill in the upcoming first round.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Kreider gone
Fast resigned
Strome resigned
Unfortunately deangelo gone
Georgiev gone

The last two I'm not overly happy about but in a cap world DeAngelo gets moved and the 3 goalie thing doesnt work.

You mean re-signed?

 

[Savant]

My God the Rangers aren't trading thr 8th overall for Lindholm let alone adding either Kravstov or Lundkvist to the deal.

You only move those assets if a top rated young player is coming back. Young in on the ELC, just coming off the ELC or a player like Nylander.

The Rangers moved the #20 and a bottom 6 Dman (in their eyes and performance up until he was dealt) in Pionk. He was 25 at the time of the trade (still is until the end of February but needed a new contract).

There’s nothing wrong with giving up a first for a 25 year old 1D with 2 years left on his (very reasonable cap hit) deal. If the Rangers are getting extra pick(s) for Kreider, Georgiev, etc, that’s all the more reason to make a deal.

 

[GAGLine]

For all the talk of how much Rangers like Fast, all points to Fast not re-signing. He was given 1,85 mill last time around. Vesey was valued at 2,25. Spooner and Namestnikov at 4,0 mill. Gorton clearly does not value what he brings that much. As another poster wrote, he will get a better contract elsewere.

This is a serious misinterpretation of the facts. Fast has never been a big point producer. He signed his contract in 2017. He was coming off a 21 points season, with a career high of 30 the year before that, mostly built on the time he spent on the top line. His career high in goals was 10 and he had 2 RFA years left.

Vesey signed in 2018, coming off seasons in which he scored 16 and 17 goals. He had 27 and 28 points in those 2 years. Vesey got slightly more because he was more of a goalscorer, and had more upside. Also, the cap went up, so salaries go up.

Namestnikov signed in 2018 and was coming off a year in which he scored 48 points, including 44 (20 goals) in 62 games with Tampa. There really was no comparison to Fast.

Coaches and management love Fast. You can see it by how much they trust him. You can't judge it by the money because Fast has never had the leverage to get more. Teams don't give players more money just because they like them. They are going to pay them the least amount they can, regardless.

 

[RGY]

There’s nothing wrong with giving up a first for a 25 year old 1D with 2 years left on his (very reasonable cap hit) deal. If the Rangers are getting extra pick(s) for Kreider, Georgiev, etc, that’s all the more reason to make a deal.

A late 1st for Lindholm? Sure no problem. Want to add a B+ prospect such as Robertson or Reunanen. Ok. But a Top 10 pick, Kravtsov, or Lundkvist. Yeah f*** that.

Lindholm is a due a new contract in 2 years and will be 28. What does that contract look like? No one wants to pay Kreider here for every reason in the world. But youre gona wana pay Lindholm through age 34-35? Gimme a damn break. The same crying will occur about having to pay guys coming off their ELCs in the next 2-4 years. And since we just forked over an 8th overall pick or Kravtsov or Lundkvist youre going to have to sign him. Have to.

So unless you think you’re competing for the cup with absolute certainty over the next 2 years, trading anything more than a late 1st and B level prospect would be sheer stupidity.

Is Werenski becoming available? Because thats the type of player you deal an 8th overall + Kravstov/Lundkvist for.

 

[Savant]

A late 1st for Lindholm? Sure no problem. Want to add a B+ prospect such as Robertson or Reunanen. Ok. But a Top 10 pick, Kravtsov, or Lundkvist. Yeah **** that.

Lindholm is a due a new contract in 2 years and will be 28. What does that contract look like? No one wants to pay Kreider here for every reason in the world. But youre gona wana pay Lindholm through age 34-35? Gimme a damn break. The same crying will occur about having to pay guys coming off their ELCs in the next 2-4 years. And since we just forked over an 8th overall pick or Kravtsov or Lundkvist youre going to have to sign him. Have to.

So unless you think you’re competing for the cup with absolute certainty over the next 2 years, trading anything more than a late 1st and B level prospect would be sheer stupidity.

Is Werenski becoming available? Because thats the type of player you deal an 8th overall + Kravstov/Lundkvist for.

I mean D, especially Swedish D who play that style, tend to have really good longevity. I’d bet him staying at a higher level than Kreider. Lindholm is also a better player than Werenski. He is worth a big investment. I’m not giving up Lundkvist, but I don’t have a problem creating a strong offer for Anaheim, albeit would need some other dominos to fall first.

 

[RGY]

I mean D, especially Swedish D who play that style, tend to have really good longevity. I’d bet him staying at a higher level than Kreider. Lindholm is also a better player than Werenski. He is worth a big investment. I’m not giving up Lundkvist, but I don’t have a problem creating a strong offer for Anaheim, albeit would need some other dominos to fall first.

I am weary of Lindholm because of the next contract. I believe he is a July birthday. I might be mixing that up with someone else checking a lot of players lately. Lindholm is by no means a bad player. That is not my position. But I simply cannot move a Top 10 pick or a top prospect for him. The factors with the contract, age, and just him as a player doesn’t do it for me to trade those level of assets.

And to be fair, saying he is a Swedish defenseman so his body should hold up is just your opinion and not proven fact. Saying his body will likely hold up more than Kreider is opinion. Kreider is a physical specimen, and I would argue the opposite. But nothing is proven there. Difference here is Kreider is a Ranger and we are not trading assets for him.

Werenski is 22 years old. Signed for 2 more years with RFA status after that. He is absolutely the better player right now. He is averaging more minutes than Lindholm this season and career wise. He has already put up 40+ points twice. Lindholm has never reached 40 points. In the case of a top pairing defenseman, they need to and should be producing. Lindholm hasn’t. I don’t want to hear about how much of a shutdown defenseman he is. You can find that somewhere else for cheaper then. You dont trade premium assets for a shutdown defenseman. Especially not in today’s NHL. And before you bring up Trouba, we traded a late 1st and Neal Pionk for him. Pionk... And we signed him to a long term contract at age 25. Not 28. There is a lot of context to be considered here with Lindholm.

If you can get Lindholm for a late 1st + Robertson/Reunanen, all for it. Take the risk of being able to not re-sign him or not wanting to. If not pass.

But with CBJ likely going to need a rebuild in the next couple years, that is the team I would target. Werenski. Yes they are competing for a playoff spot this year. But I dont see that being sustained in the years to come. They are an older group upfront with their main guys. Unless Bjorkstrand takes significant steps, I can see them starting to go in the other direction.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

There’s nothing wrong with giving up a first for a 25 year old 1D with 2 years left on his (very reasonable cap hit) deal. If the Rangers are getting extra pick(s) for Kreider, Georgiev, etc, that’s all the more reason to make a deal.

You don't give up the #8 pick AND a top prospect.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

If the Rangers recoup a first for Kreider, it will most likely be in the latter half of the draft. By all means, flip that pick in a package for a now player. The Rangers own pick should be going nowhere unless you're getting a legit superstar center or LD back from a package including it.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Nice to see everyone hopping on the Lindholm option. Perfect fit, Kravtsov+Lundkvist+small plus would be a good basis

For Anaheim. I want no part of that deal. He has two years left and is going to command a huge contract just as our window is opening. It is the right deal at the wrong time and by the time the timing is right, he will be a pending UFA.

Frankly, Lindholm would be another Trouba. A player that this board builds up to almost mythical proportions, only to realize that said player is human once acquired.

1000000000% no thank you on Lindholm.

But with one important difference. He has a left shot. Which means Panarin can feed him from the left side. And Galchenyuk has showed he can score goals.
If anyone can get him going it has to be Panarin.

So we are going to trade Strome and hope that Panarin can make said left handed shot replacement, as good as Strome? Yikes.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

In the Athletic this morning, Custance posted an article where he takes potential trades to a team executive and they give their opinion on which team says no

Here are the Ranger ones

4. Colorado trades Tyson Jost and a 2020 first-round pick to the New York Rangers for Chris Kreider

I don’t hate this. I think Kreider is going to ultimately get the Rangers a first-round pick. At worst, a conditional first. But there are some people who aren’t convinced, in part because he isn’t a center. So, because we’re also including a guy drafted No. 10 overall in 2016, this seems steep for the Avs.

Exec: “Colorado says no. This seems to be modeled on the Kevin Hayes deal, and the comparison is reasonable. So this isn’t a firm no, but I’d be surprised if a rental fetched that much.”

6. The New York Rangers send goalie Alexandar Georgiev and a third-round pick to Toronto for Kasperi Kapanen and a second-round pick

As James Mirtle has reported, the Maple Leafs have inquired about Georgiev. He makes a ton of sense for them. But if you’re trading Kapanen, you might want to get a defenseman back instead of a backup goalie.

Exec: “Toronto says no. I don’t know why people think the Rangers are going to get a massive windfall for Georgiev. He has mediocre numbers, a mediocre record, and having three goalies erodes any leverage they have.”

8. The New York Rangers trade Chris Kreider to Boston for Danton Heinen, a first-round pick and Jakub Zboril

That’s a bit steep for a pure rental.

Exec: “Boston says no. This is similar to the Colorado proposal earlier, maybe I am just wrong about what teams will do, but that seems like a lot for a rental who is a good player but not a star.”

The exec thinks the Rangers are asking for too much in each

 

[RangersFan1994]

Kreider gone
Fast resigned
Strome resigned
Unfortunately deangelo gone
Georgiev gone

The last two I'm not overly happy about but in a cap world DeAngelo gets moved and the 3 goalie thing doesnt work.

i think 4.0 which what market value would be for Fast as an UFA is too much in my opinion. Fast has a 1.85 cap hit. most I'd offer is 2.95. no way I offer 3 or more. cap space might be important down the road. no point in overpaying for a 3rd liner at best. let another team make that mistake.

 

[Vitto79]

In the Athletic this morning, Custance posted an article where he takes potential trades to a team executive and they give their opinion on which team says no

Here are the Ranger ones





The exec thinks the Rangers are asking for too much in each

likely are w Georgiev

 

[Gardner McKay]

In the Athletic this morning, Custance posted an article where he takes potential trades to a team executive and they give their opinion on which team says no

Here are the Ranger ones





The exec thinks the Rangers are asking for too much in each

I'm sure this exec would have said the same thing about the Nash and Hayes deals. And maybe we are. Sometimes you get your asking price, sometimes you don't.

With that being said, there is more at play than just the price tag here. How much pressure is on the GM to make the playoffs and get that extra revenue? Is the GM on the hot seat and actually has to make some noise in the playoffs? Is the GM on solid ground and can afford to wait another year before making a big splash?

 

[Kovalev27]

I don’t know what this fascination is wirh lindholm but he’s not much better than Brady skjei. Certainly not when Skjei is on his game. And on top of that switch you want to give up two top prospects to get him? Yuck

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

In the Athletic this morning, Custance posted an article where he takes potential trades to a team executive and they give their opinion on which team says no

Here are the Ranger ones





The exec thinks the Rangers are asking for too much in each

Is that exec Lou?

 

[Fireonk]

I'm sure this exec would have said the same thing about the Nash and Hayes deals. And maybe we are. Sometimes you get your asking price, sometimes you don't.

With that being said, there is more at play than just the price tag here. How much pressure is on the GM to make the playoffs and get that extra revenue? Is the GM on the hot seat and actually has to make some noise in the playoffs? Is the GM on solid ground and can afford to wait another year before making a big splash?

And to add on to that, to preempt the complaining in a few weeks. Obviously Gorton is asking high prices, and if he doesn't get it it just means the market wasn't there. For pending UFAs you take what you can get if they aren't part of the plan for the future.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Countdown to TradeCentre: Keep an eye on Columbus Blue Jackets F Josh Anderson? - TSN.ca

Rangers should be in on him if the offer is reasonable. Rangers need more grit in the top 9 and Lemieux and Anderson would be fun to watch.

 

[Savant]

You don't give up the #8 pick AND a top prospect.

That’s right. You give up the pick you get for Kreider if a better prospect is going to be involved.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I don’t know what this fascination is wirh lindholm but he’s not much better than Brady skjei. Certainly not when Skjei is on his game. And on top of that switch you want to give up two top prospects to get him? Yuck

Hes way better than Skjei but no, I'm not giving up a top 10 pick PLUS prospects.

 

[Savant]

I don’t know what this fascination is wirh lindholm but he’s not much better than Brady skjei. Certainly not when Skjei is on his game. And on top of that switch you want to give up two top prospects to get him? Yuck

This is completely wrong. Lindholm is superior to Skjei and changes the look of the defense completely. By what metric is Skjei better than Lindholm?

 

[Tawnos]

In the Athletic this morning, Custance posted an article where he takes potential trades to a team executive and they give their opinion on which team says no

Here are the Ranger ones





The exec thinks the Rangers are asking for too much in each

Gotta love a response where the exec says “this seems to be modeled on a rental deal that happened, but I’d be surprised if something like that happened”

 

[brians1128]

In the Athletic this morning, Custance posted an article where he takes potential trades to a team executive and they give their opinion on which team says no

Here are the Ranger ones





The exec thinks the Rangers are asking for too much in each

Bc he's most likely right.

I think all those other players Kap, Jost, Heinen, etc are available but the Rangers will need to add to get them. While many haven't lived up to their hype they still are NHL players.

With Boston deal, you're looking at Fredric, JFK similar mold, and I dont think both if they are getting a first rounder.

With the Toronto deal, minus out the picks and add something that will have a little sting to it if you want Kap. Hes a 3rd liner on a deep offensive team and could very much be in a role on the second line. Which of our d prospects not named miller, lundkvist, maybe Robertson do they like? I havent followed our d prospects closely this year but we should have an expendable guy given its our organizational strength in terms of numbers and they have Barrie, Muzzin etc coming off the books.

Colorado, Im not even gonna say anything Sakic is too cheap to deal with.