Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20 Part XXV

[GoAwayPanarin]

This is completely wrong. Lindholm is superior to Skjei and changes the look of the defense completely. By what metric is Skjei better than Lindholm?

This defense + Lindholm and Rykov -Skjei and Staal becomes a legitimate group you can win with.

 

[Ola]

Speaking of top prospects who bust, I can’t understand sometimes the number of HF board people who refuse to give up 1st or 2nd round picks like they’re gold. You’re selling players who are players who are contributing to their respective clubs and will potentially help fill a role on the new club.

Yup, couldn't agree more.

Go back 20 years and look at the output of a 1st round and it often looks like this (GP/G/A/PTS):

1	Patrik Stefan	455	64	124	188
2	Daniel Sedin	1306	393	648	1041
3	Henrik Sedin	1330	240	830	1070
4	Pavel Brendl	78	11	11	22
5	Tim Connolly	697	131	300	431
6	Brian Finley	4	0	0	0
7	Kris Beech	198	25	42	67
8	Taylor Pyatt	859	140	140	280
9	Jamie Lundmark	295	40	59	99
10	Branislav Mezei	240	5	19	24
11	Oleg Saprykin	325	55	82	137
12	Denis Shvidki	76	11	14	25
13	Jani Rita	66	9	5	14
14	Jeff Jillson	140	9	32	41
15	Scott Kelman
16	Dave Tanabe	449	30	84	114
17	Barret Jackman	876	29	157	186
18	Konstantin Koltsov	144	12	26	38
19	Kirill Safronov	35	2	2	4
20	Barrett Heisten	10	0	0	0
21	Nick Boynton	605	34	110	144
22	Maxime Ouellet	12	0	1	1
23	Steve McCarthy	302	17	38	55
24	Luca Cereda
25	Mikhail Kuleshov	3	0	0	0
26	Martin Havlat	790	242	352	594
27	Ari Ahonen
28	Kristian Kudroc

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Five forwards with more than 200 pts.

15 years ago, and this is a really good draft in 04':

1	Alex Ovechkin	1133	692	569	1261
2	Evgeni Malkin	889	406	646	1052
3	Cam Barker	310	21	75	96
4	Andrew Ladd	947	248	289	537
5	Blake Wheeler	911	257	482	739
6	Al Montoya	168	0	5	5
7	Rostislav Olesz	365	57	77	134
8	Alexandre Picard	67	0	2	2
9	Ladislav Smid	583	12	60	72
10	Boris Valabik	80	0	7	7
11	Lauri Tukonen	5	0	0	0
12	A.J. Thelen
13	Drew Stafford	841	196	232	428
14	Devan Dubnyk	514	0	8	8
15	Alexander Radulov	428	134	194	328
16	Petteri Nokelainen	245	20	21	41
17	Marek Schwarz	6	0	0	0
18	Kyle Chipchura	482	31	73	104
19	Lauri Korpikoski	609	86	115	201
20	Travis Zajac	971	192	334	526
21	Wojtek Wolski	451	99	168	267
22	Lukas Kaspar	16	2	2	4
23	Andrej Meszaros	645	63	175	238
24	Kris Chucko	2	0	0	0
25	Rob Schremp	114	20	34	54
26	Cory Schneider	405	0	8	8
27	Jeff Schultz	409	11	65	76
28	Mark Fistric	325	4	30	34
29	Mike Green	871	149	349	498
30	Andy Rogers

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The 2017, 2018 and 2019 drafts will probably be somewhere in between 04' and 99'. It won't differ much.

 

[Ola]

This is completely wrong. Lindholm is superior to Skjei and changes the look of the defense completely. By what metric is Skjei better than Lindholm?

The problem is that Lindholm is too good. You just don't trade Ds like that unless its like for a Taylor Hall type. I can't see him getting traded.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Bc he's most likely right.

I think all those other players Kap, Jost, Heinen, etc are available but the Rangers will need to add to get them. While many haven't lived up to their hype they still are NHL players.

With Boston deal, you're looking at Fredric, JFK similar mold, and I dont think both if they are getting a first rounder.

With the Toronto deal, minus out the picks and add something that will have a little sting to it if you want Kap. Hes a 3rd liner on a deep offensive team and could very much be in a role on the second line. Which of our d prospects not named miller, lundkvist, maybe Robertson do they like? I havent followed our d prospects closely this year but we should have an expendable guy given its our organizational strength in terms of numbers and they have Barrie, Muzzin etc coming off the books.

Colorado, Im not even gonna say anything Sakic is too cheap to deal with.

I only agree with the Toronto scenario, I think thats probably more than we could hope for.

I think the Colorado one is on point and I think the Rangers would turn down the Boston trade. Zboril doesn't have much value.

 

[Kovalev27]

This is completely wrong. Lindholm is superior to Skjei and changes the look of the defense completely. By what metric is Skjei better than Lindholm?

Curious where did I say Skjei is better than lindholm?

I said lindholm is not much better than Skjei and he’s not. He’s also 2 3 years older.

somehow you translated that into me saying Skjei is better than lindholm.

 

[Ola]

In the Athletic this morning, Custance posted an article where he takes potential trades to a team executive and they give their opinion on which team says no

Here are the Ranger ones

4. Colorado trades Tyson Jost and a 2020 first-round pick to the New York Rangers for Chris Kreider

I don’t hate this. I think Kreider is going to ultimately get the Rangers a first-round pick. At worst, a conditional first. But there are some people who aren’t convinced, in part because he isn’t a center. So, because we’re also including a guy drafted No. 10 overall in 2016, this seems steep for the Avs.

Exec: “Colorado says no. This seems to be modeled on the Kevin Hayes deal, and the comparison is reasonable. So this isn’t a firm no, but I’d be surprised if a rental fetched that much.”

6. The New York Rangers send goalie Alexandar Georgiev and a third-round pick to Toronto for Kasperi Kapanen and a second-round pick

As James Mirtle has reported, the Maple Leafs have inquired about Georgiev. He makes a ton of sense for them. But if you’re trading Kapanen, you might want to get a defenseman back instead of a backup goalie.

Exec: “Toronto says no. I don’t know why people think the Rangers are going to get a massive windfall for Georgiev. He has mediocre numbers, a mediocre record, and having three goalies erodes any leverage they have.”

8. The New York Rangers trade Chris Kreider to Boston for Danton Heinen, a first-round pick and Jakub Zboril

That’s a bit steep for a pure rental.

Exec: “Boston says no. This is similar to the Colorado proposal earlier, maybe I am just wrong about what teams will do, but that seems like a lot for a rental who is a good player but not a star.”

The exec thinks the Rangers are asking for too much in each

The exec is probably right re the average trade, but in the end it all comes down to supply and demand. We got the return we got for Hayes because unless Winnipeg move that for Hayes they don't get him or anyone else with the same potential. Some TDLs the market is flooded and teams are glad to get a 2nd rounder for a player everyone thought would fetch a 1st, other times teams get more for their players. Its volatile.

I don't think you today can say that the price for Kreider will or will not be in line with the above.

 

[Raspewtin]

Curious where did I say Skjei is better than lindholm?

I said lindholm is not much better than Skjei and he’s not. He’s also 2 3 years older.

somehow you translated that into me saying Skjei is better than lindholm.

Lindholm is actually 2 months older than Skjei

they were drafted the same year

 

[Kovalev27]

Lindholm is actually 2 months older than Skjei

they were drafted the same year

that’s what I meant my apologies

 

[Gardner McKay]

Countdown to TradeCentre: Keep an eye on Columbus Blue Jackets F Josh Anderson? - TSN.ca

Rangers should be in on him if the offer is reasonable. Rangers need more grit in the top 9 and Lemieux and Anderson would be fun to watch.

It isn't. Their ask from Edmonton was beyond outrageous.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

It isn't. Their ask from Edmonton was beyond outrageous.

Yeah I was gonna say

It's reported they asked for multiple blue chip assets from Edmonton

No thanks

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It isn't. Their ask from Edmonton was beyond outrageous.

If the Oilers didn't give up Bouchard for him they're dumb.

 

[Edge]

The problem with talking to any one person in isolation, or even two people, is that you can get very different reactions and not be anywhere close to an accurate representation.

What if that Exec. is Joe Sakic? Notoriously cheap, not willing to budge. You're answers are going to trend in that direction.

What if your exec is on the hot seat, needs assets, and wants to get over the hump? He may significantly more inclined to pursue a deal.

Of course the Rangers are going to set the price high on their guys. You don't start with a discount.

But at the end of the day, their market is going to come down to just one factor --- is there at least one team willing to meet their price. If there is, a deal gets done at the price point. If not, negotiations on a final price are coming.

 

[Thirty One]

Yup, couldn't agree more.

Go back 20 years and look at the output of a 1st round and it often looks like this (GP/G/A/PTS):Five forwards with more than 200 pts.

15 years ago, and this is a really good draft in 04':
The 2017, 2018 and 2019 drafts will probably be somewhere in between 04' and 99'. It won't differ much.

I'm sure you randomly selected the two worst drafts in recent memory?

 

[Gardner McKay]

If the Oilers didn't give up Bouchard for him they're dumb.

I don't think it was just Bouchard. IIRC, I read somewhere they wanted RNH + Bouchard and possibly a third asset.

 

[RGY]

Countdown to TradeCentre: Keep an eye on Columbus Blue Jackets F Josh Anderson? - TSN.ca

Rangers should be in on him if the offer is reasonable. Rangers need more grit in the top 9 and Lemieux and Anderson would be fun to watch.

I have been pumping the tires on Josh Anderson all year long. He is exactly who the Rangers need as part of the group to compete. Diversifies the forward group. 2nd-3rd line tweener who looks like an excellent 3rd liner. Adds physicality so that we dont just have Lemieux as our pest. Makes us much, much tougher to play against.

Georgiev+2nd for Kapanen/Labanc

Prospect, Prospect + pick for Anderson

Kreider+2nd ‘21 for BOS 1st, Frederic, Studnicka

Frederic, Kapanen/Labanc, Anderson would make this team competitive down the stretch this season while gearing us up for next year.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

If the Rangers are going after roster players coming back at the trade deadline, it seems natural that the focus will be 3rd/4th liners. For starters, the Rangers need those types of players to fill in depth, and I doubt any contending team is going to give up a more valuable piece in the midst of their playoff run. And you know what? That's fine because these are the types of players the Rangers need right now. Up front, the Rangers finally have a couple of guys in Panarin, Zibanejad, and (eventually) Kakko who can really drive play and carry their linemates.

What they seem to be lacking is NHL-level talent that takes pride in the sometimes dirty assignments traditionally relegated to the 3rd and 4th lines. There's plenty of ways to build a team, but just taking your 1-12 most offensively gifted forwards and hoping to find a cohesive unit rarely work. I really think we need some guys that take pride in being physical, mucking it up along the boards, and PK'ing. Guys that aren't going to eventually mope because they're not getting top 6 minutes. A player like this + a late 1st and potentially a prospect sounds about right in a Kreider deal.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Custance hasn't said a nice thing about the Rangers in his life. He's another Ken Campbell. So I'm surprised that the article was designed to shit on the Rangers.

 

[Edge]

Until I hear otherwise, my expectations for potential trade returns are what they were a few months ago.

Kreider for a first and B prospect.

Georgiev for a second, unless he bundles in a package.

Strome for a second and a third.

A package of Strome and Georgiev would probably be more enticing for teams.

Fast for a third.

I especially say that as "trade fever" reaches its pitch and the return from fantasy deals just keep going up and up and up.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Until I hear otherwise, my expectations for potential trade returns are what they were a few months ago.

Kreider for a first and B prospect.

Georgiev for a second, unless he bundles in a package.

Strome for a second and a third.

A package of Strome and Georgiev would probably be more enticing for teams.

Fast for a third.

I especially say that as "trade fever" reaches its pitch and the return from fantasy deals just keep going up and up and up.

Why are we not hearing more about things like this? I am all about the package deals. I've always said I'd rather give up more to get exactly what I want.

 

[Off Sides]

Kapanen is an NHL player I'd be interested in out of the targets often mentioned. He can skate, produce some and can PK. There is likely value there even if he does turn out to be just a 3rd liner, yet I do think he is more of a middle 6F.

He is on a bridge deal for two more seasons which is another plus as he is 23 years old and that contract will leave him with two RFA years left. Rangers could see what he does for two years before having to decide what to do contract wise.

What they could trade for him, I don't know and no I would not go overboard by any means, yet he fits into what I think the Rangers should be looking at as far as NHL players more so than the others who are often mentioned as trade targets, yet that probably means his price is higher than anyone would like.

 

[Kovalev27]

I have no idea what Gorton is doing frankly. And I’m not saying that necessarily in a bad way I just don’t see any movement on any front.

hasn’t even had a conversation with kreiders team or Fasts.

hasn’t locked up any rfas. My guess is hasn’t talked to them either.

has this 3 goalie clown car going on while hank sits there playing once a month.

There’s patience and then there’s sitting on your hands. Would it be smarter to get tony signed today instead of when he’s sitting at the end of the year with 60 plus? Pens just locked up a young dman long term.

 

[Ola]

I'm sure you randomly selected the two worst drafts in recent memory?

Do you think that 00', 01' or 02' were better than 04'?? I would definitely say that 04' is better than 00-02, while of course 03' is one of the better 1st rounds the last decades. I randomly picked 15 and 20 years ago.

 

[Edge]

Why are we not hearing more about things like this? I am all about the package deals. I've always said I'd rather give up more to get exactly what I want.

Several months back I heard it mentioned a few times and shared the concept on here. However, that was before Strome's chemistry with Panarin was as evident. I'm not sure the Rangers moving Strome is as likely as it was once. So that one is TBD.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I have no idea what Gorton is doing frankly. And I’m not saying that necessarily in a bad way I just don’t see any movement on any front.

hasn’t even had a conversation with kreiders team or Fasts.

hasn’t locked up any rfas. My guess is hasn’t talked to them either.

has this 3 goalie clown car going on while hank sits there playing once a month.

There’s patience and then there’s sitting on your hands. Would it be smarter to get tony signed today instead of when he’s sitting at the end of the year with 60 plus? Pens just locked up a young dman long term.

Takes two to tango.

Given Tony's behavior this past summer, do you really think he's at all likely to meet the team midway on a "reasonable" deal for both parties?

 

[Ola]

I have no idea what Gorton is doing frankly. And I’m not saying that necessarily in a bad way I just don’t see any movement on any front.

hasn’t even had a conversation with kreiders team or Fasts.

hasn’t locked up any rfas. My guess is hasn’t talked to them either.

has this 3 goalie clown car going on while hank sits there playing once a month.

There’s patience and then there’s sitting on your hands. Would it be smarter to get tony signed today instead of when he’s sitting at the end of the year with 60 plus? Pens just locked up a young dman long term.

Yeah, but just regarding the "haven't had a talk with X camp" reports that we get, I don't think that says much. I am not saying that you are saying it, but sometimes it seems like two sides are completely in the dark as long as there haven't been any negotiations . That is of course not the case. If a player is about to become a UFA all you need to know if that player is looking to get paid market value or not, and if you know that there is zero point in negotiating unless you are willing to put a really big offer on the table.