Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20: Part XXIX

[Trxjw]

Was the term "buyout" mentioned in the conversation?

Yup. They basically did a "you be Hank and I'll be Gorton" skit and tried to see how it might play out. Friedman said they'd jump through hoops to do a buyout, but it might have to be on the table. Said perhaps another "letter" situation where the Rangers brace their fans for something like that.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I agree... I'm on here every day talking about Holtz, Raymond, Stutzle, etc.

I'm ok if it's Clayton Keller instead.

But get someone like one of those four names, please. Go get a young 21 year old in the NHL in Keller.... or add to a trade to go get a 19 year old who will SOON be ready for the NHL in Newhook... etc.

And if the Rangers don't value those two players as highly as you do?

 

[EdJovanovski]

Yup and still Fox was betters. Not trying to make any implications just an observation.

Huh? I wasn't comparing players I was just saying that he could potentially play LD solving our logjam.
Also, Fox is nowhere near as talented as ADA. Nowhere near the same offensive IQ, hands, skating ability, edge.

 

[Edge]

See and I have ZERO issue with this... But we must be getting quality.

I know folks wanna build depth but that really won’t help unless we get another legit threat up front. Kravtsov may never be that as much as we would love it.

I think we're getting close to the point where, outside of maybe our top pick in this upcoming draft, help is probably going to start coming from the outside.

So let's say the Rangers sign Kreider and buy out Lundqvist this summer, I think at that point, you're kind of looking at what we're going to have in-house for the top six roles: Panarin, Kreider, Zibanejad, Chytil, Kakko, Kravtsov, Buch, and Strome. Now you may see a few of those guys moved in various deals, but you're probably not looking at it being connected to prospects and picks. Not at that this point at least. Additionally, you may also be able to include a kid from this year's draft as someone who could be in the lineup within a year or so --- depending on the player.

So, post-draft, I think the focus probably shifts to depth a bit, finding balance on the lines, seeing if there is a LD on the market, etc.

But there are many moving parts here, so all of this represents only one of the possible paths.

 

[kovazub94]

Agreed. And while it contains a ton of moving parts, are the Rangers really going to give up a developing asset(s) just to start the clock over on an 18 year old?

This may not be the sexiest of opinions, but the Rangers really need to start targeting NHL ready 3rd/4th liners that take pride in bottom 6 assignments. A Panarin/Zibanejad/Kakko combination in the future provides the highest level of talent the team has had in a long time and allows for much flexibility in the top 6 (see Strome, Ryan). Depth is paramount and, as strange as it sounds, some of that depth needs to understand their 3rd/4th line ceilings and embrace those sorts of assignments.

With a degree of simplification: bring young Fast type from Kreider’s trade, bring picks from Fast’s trade. Promote own prospects as they develop. Use picks to continue growing own prospects pool or in a trade.

 

[mas0764]

And if the Rangers don't value those two players as highly as you do?

I don't understand the question.

Obviously the team has no idea what I think and is gonna do what they are gonna do.

And I'm going to be on here either complaining or praising.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Yup. They basically did a "you be Hank and I'll be Gorton" skit and tried to see how it might play out. Friedman said they'd jump through hoops to do a buyout, but it might have to be on the table. Said perhaps another "letter" situation where the Rangers brace their fans for something like that.

I am becoming more and more convinced that the Rangers are very likely, in some manner, to just (to quote @Mac n Gs) "to just rip the band-aid off".

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Again I’ll say, I would be embarrassed as a fan if they buyout Lundqvist

 

[mas0764]

I think we're getting close to the point where, outside of maybe our top pick in this upcoming draft, help is probably going to start coming from the outside.

So let's say the Rangers sign Kreider and buy out Lundqvist this summer, I think at that point, you're kind of looking at what we're going to have in-house for the top six roles: Panarin, Kreider, Zibanejad, Chytil, Kakko, Kravtsov, Buch, and Strome. Now you may see a few of those guys moved in various deals, but you're probably not looking at it being connected to prospects and picks. Not at that this point at least. Additionally, you may also be able to include a kid from this year's draft as someone who could be in the lineup within a year or so --- depending on the player.

So, post-draft, I think the focus probably shifts to depth a bit, finding balance on the lines, seeing if there is a LD on the market, etc.

But there are many moving parts here, so all of this represents only one of the possible paths.

I would be dissatisfied with that.

We'll see what they do I guess.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I don't understand the question.

Obviously the team has no idea what I think and is gonna do what they are gonna do.

And I'm going to be on here either complaining or praising.

You want them to trade for Holtz or Raymond. They very well could be satisfied with a number of players, such as Lundell or Holloway. Therefore, they don't see the value in giving up an additional asset to get a player they don't see as being all that much better than the one they'll be getting at whatever their draft slot is.

 

[Edge]

A buyout of Hank is a very real possibility and should be taken into consideration by everyone on here.

 

[QJL]

The only players that require a decision in the next 10 days are Kreider and Fast. Those need to be signings or trades before the deadline. Everything else can wait if the right offer isn’t there.

Hank will not be a Ranger in 20-21.

 

[Edge]

I would be dissatisfied with that.

We'll see what they do I guess.

Well I don't think that's the quite the lineup they go into battle with, but I think it's probably not a lineup that they necessarily flip for picks and prospects.

So it's kind of an in-between phase --- somewhere between picking all the grapes and drinking the wine, there's going to be a lot of sorting and a bit of a maturation process.

 

[kovazub94]

Huh? I wasn't comparing players I was just saying that he could potentially play LD solving our logjam.
Also, Fox is nowhere near as talented as ADA. Nowhere near the same offensive IQ, hands, skating ability, edge.

Wasn’t planning to start any kind of debate but just for a sake of discussion Fox is two years younger so there’s more room for development and he’s already a better two way defenseman. As far as trying ADA at LD - I have nothing against but if possible with Trouba as a regular situation partner while Fox stays with Lindgren.

 

[RGY]

Huh? I wasn't comparing players I was just saying that he could potentially play LD solving our logjam.
Also, Fox is nowhere near as talented as ADA. Nowhere near the same offensive IQ, hands, skating ability, edge.

Fox is by far the better defensive player with a better overall IQ on the ice. He reads plays so much better and makes calculated decisions on the ice with and without the puck. He has just as good of hands as ADA. Skating is there too, although ADA has the edge there. He also has that physical edge.

They are both good with great futures. It is a good problem to have. However, one is not significantly better than the other.

 

[mas0764]

You want them to trade for Holtz or Raymond. They very well could be satisfied with a number of players, such as Lundell or Holloway. Therefore, they don't see the value in giving up an additional asset to get a player they don't see as being all that much better than the one they'll be getting at whatever their draft slot is.

And I would hate that and think they are tremendously wrong, at least in the case of Holloway. Lundell is ok but I like Holtz or Raymond a lot better.

But it's not like I have any say. I just get to complain on a message board and then hope things work out.

But I certainly wouldn't understand that evaluation. Of course, I don't know the prices to move up, but I would think I would offer an awfully nice package to move up a few slots. Upon hearing last year that Edmonton was strongly considering Buch for 8th overall straight up, I would be disappointed not to be able to package, say, 10 and a sweetener for 4-5-6. Hell, I'd include Buch AND a pick to get up for a guy I really liked.

My perspective is that I've seen the Rangers ice a team full of 50 point scorers like Buch, Kreider, Zucc, Hayes, Nash and Stepan. I know where that gets you. I'd trade three 50 point scorers, because they are so relatively easy to obtain in comparison, for one 80 point scorer.

Because I can use many of my other assets to replace those 50 point scorers. The 80 point scorer is the one that is much harder to find. Consolidation is the name of the game.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

A buyout of Hank is a very real possibility and should be taken into consideration by everyone on here.

I think Quinn coming out and saying Igor was their #1 pretty much cemented things. Because even if Hank stays, he's staying as the backup. Whether intentional or not, they put the screws to him. He can't stay, I don't think. How that is realized is anyone's guess.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

A buyout of Hank is a very real possibility and should be taken into consideration by everyone on here.

Been saying this since December. If anything so they are braced for it if it does happen.

 

[mas0764]

I am kinda astounded that the team would buyout Hank and Shattenkirk but refuse to consider buying out Staal or Smith.

But if they do, they do. Of course, dunno what they are gonna do with Georgiev then. Seems like the wrong move to me.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

I am kinda astounded that the team would buyout Hank and Shattenkirk but refuse to consider buying out Staal or Smith.

But if they do, they do. Of course, dunno what they are gonna do with Georgiev then. Seems like the wrong move to me.

I think they should be bought out as well.


Edit: Provided they cannot find a trading partner.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Wasn’t planning to start any kind of debate but just for a sake of discussion Fox is two years younger so there’s more room for development and he’s already a better two way defenseman. As far as trying ADA at LD - I have nothing against but if possible with Trouba as a regular situation partner while Fox stays with Lindgren.

I think Fox & ADA are better at different aspects of defense, Fox is very calm and poised and just makes the right decisions. ADA is more physical, has better gap control, and his great skating allows him to routinely get back and close off guys when he started out way behind them. I think they're very different players, Lundkvist and Fox are the most similar imo.

DeAngelo - Trouba
Miller - Fox
Lindgren - Lundkvist

I think that would be a very nicely balanced D core in the future

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

And I would hate that and think they are tremendously wrong, at least in the case of Holloway. Lundell is ok but I like Holtz or Raymond a lot better.

But it's not like I have any say. I just get to complain on a message board and then hope things work out.

But I certainly wouldn't understand that evaluation. Of course, I don't know the prices to move up, but I would think I would offer an awfully nice package to move up a few slots. Upon hearing last year that Edmonton was strongly considering Buch for 8th overall straight up, I would be disappointed not to be able to package, say, 10 and a sweetener for 4-5-6. Hell, I'd include Buch AND a pick to get up for a guy I really liked.

My perspective is that I've seen the Rangers ice a team full of 50 point scorers like Buch, Kreider, Zucc, Hayes, Nash and Stepan. I know where that gets you. I'd trade three 50 point scorers, because they are so relatively easy to obtain in comparison, for one 80 point scorer.

Because I can use many of my other assets to replace those 50 point scorers. The 80 point scorer is the one that is much harder to find. Consolidation is the name of the game.

28 players scored 80 points or more last season. That's less than one per team. Last years Stanley Cup winner didn't have one. There's want and then there's reality.

 

[mas0764]

I think Fox & ADA are better at different aspects of defense, Fox is very calm and poised and just makes the right decisions. ADA is more physical, has better gap control, and his great skating allows him to routinely get back and close off guys when he started out way behind them. I think they're very different players, Lundkvist and Fox are the most similar imo.

DeAngelo - Trouba
Miller - Fox
Lindgren - Lundkvist

I think that would be a very nicely balanced D core in the future

That looks good to me.

Maybe Robertson replaces Lindgren at some point.

 

[Richard Banger]

Huh? I wasn't comparing players I was just saying that he could potentially play LD solving our logjam.
Also, Fox is nowhere near as talented as ADA. Nowhere near the same offensive IQ, hands, skating ability, edge.

Your right. Fox is a notch above him.

 

[Edge]

I am kinda astounded that the team would buyout Hank and Shattenkirk but refuse to consider buying out Staal or Smith.

But if they do, they do. Of course, dunno what they are gonna do with Georgiev then. Seems like the wrong move to me.

I think Shattenkirk was out of desperation more then desire. In Staal's case, I think they also didn't necessarily have someone forcing them do a buyout. If Trouba, ADA and Fox were all LHDs, it would've been him getting bought out.

I feel that Smith, for the most part, will more or less be used as a utility player as more of his contract ticks off.

With goalies, it's trickier. You really can only have two, and in the Rangers case they have three goalie and a separation of 12 years in age. So that's a driving factor there.