Speculation: Roster Building/Rumor Thread XV

[Lindberg Cheese]

I feel like Adams is misplaying his hand here. He's trying to go the Sakic with Duchene route and get a huge haul, but his major difference here is the injury. You can't just wait out people to pay your price when the player in question has what is considered a fairly serious injury and you're not providing transparency on it.

He’s trying to pull a Jedi mind trick on Drury and Guerin

 

[mas0764]

and if the center isn’t there or the price is too high, what is the hurry? The roster is loaded, they have Zibby, Strome and Chytil already. They’re adding grit and kids are maturing. What’s the hurry? October hockey?

Strome is not for long and Zibanejad only should be for long if he signs a team friendly deal. Center is a huge question mark moving forward for us. Really our only question mark moving forward. Everything else - wing, D, and goal - has so many options or already so many certainties that we know we will be fine or better than fine.

Center needs addressing.

I agree though that I have personally said I would continue the slow burn. Trade for young centers or picks to draft young centers.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

We're either being lied to and he doesn't need surgery or the Sabres are idiots.. I'd be sharing every medical information available that I have because if teams like it the offers go UP

 

[Tob]

Gonna need assurance from Kevyn Adams this isn't a Weekend at Bernie's type of situation before we continue to burn up roster building threads discussing his player.

 

[GAGLine]

They’re hoping he retires or passes away before then lol

Nah, they're just messing with EdJovanoski.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Strome is not for long and Zibanejad only should be for long if he signs a team friendly deal. Center is a huge question mark moving forward for us. Really our only question mark moving forward. Everything else - wing, D, and goal - has so many options or already so many certainties that we know we will be fine or better than fine.

Center needs addressing.

I agree though that I have personally said I would continue the slow burn. Trade for young centers or picks to draft young centers.

Yup, we don’t want our 1-2 C contracts expiring at the same time. We solve for one now and the other next off season.

 

[Thirty One]

The Rangers have been looking at Dunn for a long time now and Seravalli indicated that Soucy is staying in Seattle. So IDK what to tell you.

He did have an if on that Soucy statement, so I don't know what that means. Friedman connected the Rangers to Soucy this morning, he still pulls rank, IMO.

I had Dunn lined up as a target before, but after chaos week, it's really tough for me to see another sub 6' dman.

Also, I'm trying really hard to get the silver-haired millennial to catch on, but nothing so far. Very disappointed in this place.

 

[Priorae]

Eichel. Man the difference between what I'm reading teams are offering and what Buffalo wants is a chasm. Like not even 1-2 player difference.

There is ZERO reason for the rangers to blink before Buffalo. They have space, young players, and options. Buffalos option is to hold him. I don't see this being quick IMO.

 

[Trxjw]

Lots of posturing. Hopefully if we get to the draft and the Rangers pick at 15 that'll be the symbolic end of this silliness.

Dunn is not the right partner for Nils. Maybe if he was with Trouba and Miller with Nils but that's not ideal.

I don't think they're necessarily looking for a partner for Nils. I think they just want some experience on the left side. They've been sniffing around Dunn for a long time. I doubt a hot start and meh finish from Miller suddenly threw them off the trail.

I also don't think giving Miller and Nils an opportunity to grow together on a pair is a bad thing. We saw it happen with Fox and Lindgren and now they're one of the best pairs in the NHL. That doesn't mean Nils and Miller will achieve the same level, but we also don't really need them to.

Dunn is also a chippy player in his own right and is a very good open-ice hitter. I feel like people see him as a small, soft puck mover and that's not at all the case.

 

[NYSPORTS]

I'm convinced nobody has any real clue what Drury is doing, and I like it.

the good news is Drury knows how bad it can be to trade for a player whose wheels have fallen off b/c he was one of them lol (he was a fa)

Ironically, as a Ranger

 

[Hire Sather]

Teams shouldn't even talk to Adams without seeing the medical records. Can't gauge his value without them.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Between our Brooksie (<3) and Russo now, doubt anything is getting done at the draft. The deadline for this will more likely be the date of Eichel's bonus payment, which is think is FA right? He's not traded by then, he's not going this year and Adams is gonna have egg on his face.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

He did have an if on that Soucy statement, so I don't know what that means. Friedman connected the Rangers to Soucy this morning, he still pulls rank, IMO.

I had Dunn lined up as a target before, but after chaos week, it's really tough for me to see another sub 6' dman.

Also, I'm trying really hard to get the silver-haired millennial to catch on, but nothing so far. Very disappointed in this place.

6'0" 203.

Pretty solidly built. Short itself isn't a problem, short and light is.

He has some bite too. He's fine for a 3rd pair if he's being paired with Schenider. Wouldn't want him to be the partner for Nils.

 

[NikC]

and if the center isn’t there or the price is too high, what is the hurry? The roster is loaded, they have Zibby, Strome and Chytil already. They’re adding grit and kids are maturing. What’s the hurry? October hockey?

i'm not necessarily disagreeing with you here, but it was under these conditions that Dolan cleaned house...
right? I don't think Drury will just "make a move", but i would be surprised if he didn't bring in some dynamic players.

 

[DutchShamrock]

The expansion draft has been over for how long now?

Counting from when the league reopened activity after the draft? Negative 2.5 hours.

 

[Priorae]

Buffalo is kind of playing this well if you think about it. They aren't under pressure to sell sell sell, so they're asking for the world. If no one pays, then get the injury right and have him play at a high level and trade him next year for what you wanted all along.

The only push to sell is Eichel's wishes and a really good haul.

 

[NYSPORTS]

i'm not necessarily disagreeing with you here, but it was under these conditions that Dolan cleaned house...
right? I don't think Drury will just "make a move", but i would be surprised if he didn't bring in some dynamic players.

the roster is flooded with dynamic players. They can’t grind it out or defend themselves imo.

 

[Trxjw]

He did have an if on that Soucy statement, so I don't know what that means. Friedman connected the Rangers to Soucy this morning, he still pulls rank, IMO.

I had Dunn lined up as a target before, but after chaos week, it's really tough for me to see another sub 6' dman.

Also, I'm trying really hard to get the silver-haired millennial to catch on, but nothing so far. Very disappointed in this place.

Fair points. Though I think Dunn adds more bite to the group that he gets credit for.

Feels like folks aren't respecting your authority. Have you tried flashing your "funniest poster" award at people? Maybe try hitting them with it?

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Gonna need assurance from Kevyn Adams this isn't a Weekend at Bernie's type of situation before we continue to burn up roster building threads discussing his player.

It's posts like this that make me wish I still had the ability to like posts.

 

[rangers1314]

this seems short sighted. Dunn is really good. You can never have too many good d-men.

in terms of value, yeah, i can get behind this logic but Dunn is a very strong, underrated d-man

I agree on Dunn, however I was just saying that judging from all the reporting we've seen...the NYR are looking for a "different type of guy" to fill that role. That's all.

I'd absolutely want them to check in on what it would take to get him from Seattle, but I have a feeling they value him highly and it wouldn't be cheap.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Buffalo is kind of playing this well if you think about it. They aren't under pressure to sell sell sell, so they're asking for the world. If no one pays, then get the injury right and have him play at a high level and trade him next year for what you wanted all along.

The only push to sell is Eichel's wishes and a really good haul.

This only works as long as they can trade him before his NMC kicks in, Once that kicks in HE decides where he goes, right now he can be traded anywhere.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Buffalo is kind of playing this well if you think about it. They aren't under pressure to sell sell sell, so they're asking for the world. If no one pays, then get the injury right and have him play at a high level and trade him next year for what you wanted all along.

The only push to sell is Eichel's wishes and a really good haul.

NMC kicks in next season = you're getting less for a healthy player, and that's all predicated on him coming back and playing well, because as established, he doesn't even want to be there.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

We're either being lied to and he doesn't need surgery or the Sabres are idiots.. I'd be sharing every medical information available that I have because if teams like it the offers go UP

It would seem he certainly needs/wants surgery. I don't understand the rationale of not letting teams view medical records. What purpose would this serve?

 

[Tob]

I wonder how many 100g single serve yogurt cups Drury can eat in one sitting

 

[TheDirtyH]

At the same time, isn’t it a fact that these guys have had zero success in the POs the last 15 years? Since when can you do well in the POs with size and center? Everyone was writing down Winnipeg as a Cup winner for a few years after the first round and then when they face better teams their size at center becomes a burden. Nashville after they got RyJo? Now they can’t give him away.

For me it just comes down to this, break down the job description for a center in today’s NHL. Put it in bullet points. How many of those pts are benefitted from size and how many from quickness, ability to take away ice fast, hard work? For me it would be very illogical if someone 6’4 had an advantage over someone 5’11 at center. Totally illogical. If you play 20 minutes, for 30 sec you benefit from being big and 19:30 from being quick. Wing? Ds? Their job description is totally different. Size at D? All kinds of argument can be made there. Same with a few wingers.

And that logical argument get all kind of possible support from the reality.

The above is of course a super binary argument in a world of hockey that is anything but binary. But on this very topic, it’s hard to not come to the above conclusions.

It's hard to draw a line through cup winners, or even contenders, like this. San Jose was dominant for years with Jumbo Joe as their top center, followed by Couture, who's 6'1" and slow as shit. Ryan Johansen continues to be a bad example as he's consistently excelled in the playoffs and his absence in the '16 finals was maybe the decisive factor in Nashville losing to Pittsburgh. Toews is a big center who for years (especially over the last 15) was right there with Crosby as the most valuable player in the league. LAK won two cups with their giant Anze Kopitar taking over, not to mention Jeff Carter at 2C. Pittsburgh leaned on Crosby: their first cup 6'4" Malkin won MVP with 6'3" Jordan Staal as 3C. Washington wins in 2018 (ancient history, I know!) with Backstrom (6'0"205lb), Kuznetsov (6'1" 205lbs), and Eller (6'1" 207lb).

Even this year, Brock Nelson was and has been way more impactful and effective in the playoffs than Barzal, for example. Barkov was the better player head to head in his series against Point.

To my eyes, what makes for sustained success as a team comes down to being the best at what you can be the best at. The Lightning have 6'6" Hedman and surround him with a bunch of other giants on the blueline. Sure, they have small, quick centermen, but that's more or less the template--the important point is that they have their vision, and they stick with it. Their lineup is basically the same line over and over. Kucherov-Point-Palat, Stamkos-Cirelli-Killorn, Coleman-Gourde-Goodrow. That's like the same exact line 3 times, obviously with differences in skill and scoring prowess, but still. And it's the same on the backend.

If the Rangers really were to have Eichel and Zibanejad somehow on the same roster, it would absolutely be an advantage. But the Rangers certainly wouldn't play the same way that a team that has Point-Cirelli or Aho-Trochek for example.

Smaller centers have an advantage in quickness, but big centers have advantages of their own. For one, I think they are much harder to close on in transition up the ice. Like Barzal has made a living dancing through the neutral zone and crossing the blueline with the puck, but he's also really inept at taking the puck towards the net. He's really meh on the powerplay. Like comparing Barzal with Tavares, Barzal looks a lot more effective, and that rookie season when he outscored Tavares, many could guess he was their better center. But Tavares, big and slow as he is, is way smarter, stronger, and can create dangerous plays with way more frequency, particularly on the rush.



Take this play by Eichel. How can anybody watch this and tell me this guy can't skate with a Barzal or Aho? Maybe in the small ice, but then, where those guys can get inside position on a big center more easily, a center like Eichel has the reach and smarts to basically box out that player with the puck and always be in position to win it back, even from the outside. On this play, Eichel is showing what I mean as far as size giving centers a huge advantage driving the net compared to smaller centers. He's so much more difficult to take the puck from or contain to the outside. Philip Danualt, a player in exactly the model you're talking about, is in the frame there, totally neutered by Eichel's speed, the range of his puck control, and the velocity of his shot.