Value of: ROR to the Leafs at the deadline.

[Golden_Jet]

Who said they aren't moving a 1st?

It was said they prefer not to trade their 1st, not that they wouldn't.

I got news for you every team would prefer not to trade their 1st, literally all of them.

But I bet Toronto does trade a 1st, maybe It's 2024 instead of 2023 but I bet they do it.

Thanks tips

They could trade a first, and if they do, you could be right. It wouldn’t surprise me, but everyone keeps saying they won’t trade a first or knies.
If you read my post better, it said if they don’t trade a first or knies, then it will be a third or fourth liner.

I agree Dubas likely does, because he needs to save his job, as he won’t be renewed if he doesn’t get to second round minimum, and that might not be enough.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Imagine you've been told and believed for 6 years that your forward group needs more size upfront. And you've had a big hole at LW for years. And your top prospect is a big LW who might develop into a good NHL power forward. Is it really difficult for you to imagine why fans are excited and don't want to trade him?

And there's no need to pretend there's any sizeable gap between Knies and his linemates right now or that he's being carried or anything. The Leafs wanted to sign him last year after his frosh season before he had played with either of them. He's the rare Leafs prospect that actually might project better in the NHL than his junior/college counting stats.

Another HF classic.

"We dont want to trade prospect X"
"Your prospect X isnt even that good, every team has prospects just like that!"
"So a different prospect should work?"
"NO! If its not Propect X then theres no deal to be made!"

Thanks tips

They could trade a first, and if they do, you could be right. It wouldn’t surprise me, but everyone keeps saying they won’t trade a first or knies.
If you read my post better, it said if they don’t trade a first or knies, then it will be a third or fourth liner.

I agree Dubas likely does, because he needs to save his job, as he won’t be renewed if he doesn’t get to second round minimum, and that might not be enough.

So if the leafs trade a package of Niemela, Minten and a second rounder all we can hope for is a 3rd or 4th liner or a 7th defenceman?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Another HF classic.

"We dont want to trade prospect X"
"Your prospect X isnt even that good, every team has prospects just like that!"
"So a different prospect should work?"
"NO! If its not Propect X then theres no deal to be made!"


So if the leafs trade a package of Niemela, Minten and a second rounder all we can hope for is a 3rd or 4th liner or a 7th defenceman?

It’s not getting you the top players available, GMs prefer quality over quantity, but it will get a second liner.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

It’s not getting you the top players available, GMs prefer quality over quantity, but it will get a second liner.

So they can get a top 6 LW without giving up Knies or a first.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Thanks tips

They could trade a first, and if they do, you could be right. It wouldn’t surprise me, but everyone keeps saying they won’t trade a first or knies.
If you read my post better, it said if they don’t trade a first or knies, then it will be a third or fourth liner.

I agree Dubas likely does, because he needs to save his job, as he won’t be renewed if he doesn’t get to second round minimum, and that might not be enough.

Nobody has said they won't trade a 1st, they have said they would prefer not to but like I said nobody wants to trade their 1st but I bet Toronto does.

It has been said that Knies is virtually untouchable and unless somebody with term is on the table, like a Travis Konecy then he should be.

If Travis Konecy were available then that's different Matthew Knies should absolutely be available in that case because Travis Konecy would come with term.

But that's unlikely, I won't say impossible because their are usually a couple trades nobody sees coming per deadline Mantha for Vrana and a 1st comes to mind.

But short of that type of deal Knies should be untouchable

 

[Golden_Jet]

Nobody has said they won't trade a 1st, they have said they would prefer not to but like I said nobody wants to trade their 1st but I bet Toronto does.

It has been said that Knies is virtually untouchable and unless somebody with term is on the table, like a Travis Konecy then he should be.

If Travis Konecy were available then that's different Matthew Knies should absolutely be available in that case because Travis Konecy would come with term.

But that's unlikely, I won't say impossible because their are usually a couple trades nobody sees coming per deadline Mantha for Vrana and a 1st comes to mind.

But short of that type of deal Knies should be untouchable

I don’t disagree
Just we all know, GMs get stupid at the TDL, and Dubas has a job to save.
Konecky would be a good add, saw lots of him in junior.

 

[Golden_Jet]

So they can get a top 6 LW without giving up Knies or a first.

Sure if you throw enough quantity at it I guess.
But you should be shooting higher, with your uncertain future, with contract renewals in a year and a half starting.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Sure if you throw enough quantity at it I guess.
But you should be shooting higher, with your uncertain future, with contract renewals in a year and a half starting.

"your future is uncertain, you should get rid of all futures just in case!"

Also find it funny that you think that Knies and a first round pick are the only valuable pieces the leafs have and anything else is just "quantity".

 

[Gary Nylund]

Thanks tips

They could trade a first, and if they do, you could be right. It wouldn’t surprise me, but everyone keeps saying they won’t trade a first or knies.
If you read my post better, it said if they don’t trade a first or knies, then it will be a third or fourth liner.

I agree Dubas likely does, because he needs to save his job, as he won’t be renewed if he doesn’t get to second round minimum, and that might not be enough.

People were saying the same thing last season. Didn't happen then and I wouldn't expect it to happen now. I have confidence that Dubas will do what's best for the team, not whatever some people think needs to happen for him to save his job.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

People were saying the same thing last season. Didn't happen then and I wouldn't expect it to happen now. I have confidence that Dubas will do what's best for the team, not whatever some people think needs to happen for him to save his job.

The difference is Dubas has no contract beyond this year

 

[BlueTacos]

"your future is uncertain, you should get rid of all futures just in case!"

Also find it funny that you think that Knies and a first round pick are the only valuable pieces the leafs have and anything else is just "quantity".

Who else holds value on the leafs, prospect wise? Also the first is going to happen if O'Reilly is dubas target.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The difference is Dubas has no contract beyond this year

If he sells the farm in a futile attempt to make some noise in these playoffs, do you really think that will make him a more attractive potential GM to another team? I don't think so myself. I also think he has integrity, and therefore as long as he is the GM, he will do what he thinks is best for the team, both in the short and the long run.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Who else holds value on the leafs.?

I imagine all the top 5ish prospects hold value. I imagine our draft picks outside the first round hold value. All of our roster players hold value.

Edit because I wasnt clear on "Hold value". which is subjective, i would argue that a second round pick being a valuable piece and anything worse than that would be a quantity piece.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I don’t disagree
Just we all know, GMs get stupid at the TDL, and Dubas has a job to save.
Konecky would be a good add, saw lots of him in junior.

I'd be all for that I think Konecy with Matthews and Nylander, or Konecy with Matthews and Marner, or Tavares and Nylander or Tavares and Marner, whatever combination you choose with be fantastic and would absolutely put Knies on the table for that.

Timo Meier would be great too but he would need an extension

 

[I am Canadian]

Knies isn’t Knies quality prospect. The mythology some of y’all have built around him is ridiculous. He is good prospect and likely NHLer, but let’s not ask like he is Matthew Tkachuk or anything. He’s 3rd best guy on his own line at UM.

He's a blue chip prospect. There's a reason GM's are asking for him in trade talks & there's a reason why every fanbase always says Knies + when they participate in these kinds of threads.

Obviously he's not Tkachuk. Again, let's compare the best prospect traded for a rental in recent years. None of them will be on the same level as Knies is currently.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

It’s not getting you the top players available, GMs prefer quality over quantity, but it will get a second liner.

A 2nd liner is what they need

He's a blue chip prospect. There's a reason GM's are asking for him in trade talks & there's a reason why every fanbase always says Knies + when they participate in these kinds of threads.

Obviously he's not Tkachuk. Again, let's compare the best prospect traded for a rental in recent years. None of them will be on the same level as Knies is currently.

That depends on what you consider recent

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

Considering what the Leafs paid for Nick Foligno I think they'd have to give up 3 first rounders for ROR.

 

[I am Canadian]

A 2nd liner is what they need



That depends on what you consider recent

10 years

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

10 years

In that case Forsberg was traded for Erat, I don't remember if Erat was a rental but if he was that just barely qualifies

 

[I am Canadian]

In that case Forsberg was traded for Erat, I don't remember if Erat was a rental but if he was that just barely qualifies

Wrong. Erat's contract still had over two years remaining at the time of that trade.

That was also one of the worst trades in NHL history, so not exactly a great comparable even if it was for a rental.

 

[FerrisRox]

In that case Forsberg was traded for Erat, I don't remember if Erat was a rental but if he was that just barely qualifies

Erat was not a rental.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Wrong. Erat's contract still had over two years remaining at the time of that trade.

That was also one of the worst trades in NHL history, so not exactly a great comparable even if it was for a rental.

It sure is one of the worst

 

[Fogelhund]

So they can get a top 6 LW without giving up Knies or a first.

Our guy currently playing 2LW has 14 points in his last 13 games... and we need to upgrade that spot?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Our guy currently playing 2LW has 14 points in his last 13 games... and we need to upgrade that spot?

It's a great streak that he's on but do you really think Jarnkork can keep up what he's doing? considering this is literally the best he's ever played probably not.

The smart thing to do is get a legitimate top 6 winger, push Jarnkork to the 3rd line therefore improving both the top 6 and bottom 6

 

[Fogelhund]

It's a great streak that he's on but do you really think Jarnkork can keep up what he's doing? considering this is literally the best he's ever played probably not.

The smart thing to do is get a legitimate top 6 winger, push Jarnkork to the 3rd line therefore improving both the top 6 and bottom 6

That's the thing... what we have on both the Tavares line, and the Kampf line is working, and there is decent chemistry there... yet you want to disrupt that chemistry, in the hopes that we can break up two lines, and somehow be better.

What you should be seeing when you look at this situation, is going... ok, so it's the ZAR/Holmberg/XXX combo that needs help... maybe you get a better C for that combo, hope that Knies joins the team, and have a Knies/XXX/Holmberg.... At this point, that's your target.... maybe that's a RoR, and Toews, or some other C, and you turn that line into a more potent line, while keeping what is working together.