Value of: RNH to Rangers in forseeable future

[Lion Hound]

What kind of package would it take to get RNH to the big apple? Would EDM be interested in a Player like Stepan to replace him? I think something around RNH + Klefbom for Stepan + Mcdonagh could benefit both teams although i think EDM adds slightly

I think the Rangers are pretty happy with Stepan and McDonagh as is. They need to improve the D. That's their goal as of now. Trading their captain and best Dmen on a decent contract isn't likely.

RNH is a very exciting name in a deal, however in Stepan there's a vetted guy who knows the system and is likely their number 1 C.

I don't think this one makes too much sense for NYR.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Good insight, Is Klefbom the higher prized young Defenseman out of him and nurse?

Klefbom is absolutely more important than Nurse. Nurse's value lies in the fact that he could end up being a defenseman who can do it all if he develops a lot. Klefbom's value lies in the fact that while healthy, he has already shown that he is a 2/3 defenseman. Klefbom's downfall has been injuries. Nurse's downfall has been slow development (compared to Klefbom, not compared to most young defensemen).

 

[bernmeister]

RNH to the Rangers isn't a fit. He's only maybe available for a very good right shot offensive defenseman.

(no, I don't expect anyone to offer that)

RNH = Stepan
Klefbom<<McDonagh

??

RNH slightly better skater, shooter
equal passing, playmaking, vision
Stepan better D

= wash

Klef is not chop liver but McD can return Klef + value on the market, if he were put on it.

 

[Revelation]

McD looks sketchy... maybe he got the same bug Redden, Staal and Girardi got from being on the Rangers too long. If Klefbom trends up and McD trends down that's not a good swap for the oilers, especially with the 4 year age difference.

Likewise, RNH vs Stepan 3 year age difference and they're about the same, much less difference than between Brassard and Zibanejad. Rangers take this and run as fast as they can given that they basically get a free 3-4 years prime years out of similar cost/ability players. This is like 2 Weber-Subban trades on a smaller scale with the Rangers getting Subbans and Oilers getting Webers. Rangers set themselves up very nicely for the future with Zibanejad, RNH (who'd flourish in the East), Buch, Vesey, Hayes, Klefbom, Skrej, McIlrath all without tanking.

Oilers only do this if they thing McDonaugh is really that good... and I think they're banking on a swedish chemistry booster with Klefbom-Larsson.

 

[vipernsx]

The season can't start soon enough

Rangers are trading Stepan, their top blueliner and team captain.

 

[tempest2i]

The season can't start soon enough

Rangers are trading Stepan, their top blueliner and team captain.

They are?!?

I'm interested how you know and where they're going and why the team thinks this is a good idea in the middle of training camp.

 

[JT Kreider]

McD looks sketchy... maybe he got the same bug Redden, Staal and Girardi got from being on the Rangers too long. If Klefbom trends up and McD trends down that's not a good swap for the oilers, especially with the 4 year age difference.

Likewise, RNH vs Stepan 3 year age difference and they're about the same, much less difference than between Brassard and Zibanejad. Rangers take this and run as fast as they can given that they basically get a free 3-4 years prime years out of similar cost/ability players. This is like 2 Weber-Subban trades on a smaller scale with the Rangers getting Subbans and Oilers getting Webers. Rangers set themselves up very nicely for the future with Zibanejad, RNH (who'd flourish in the East), Buch, Vesey, Hayes, Klefbom, Skrej, McIlrath all without tanking.

Oilers only do this if they thing McDonaugh is really that good... and I think they're banking on a swedish chemistry booster with Klefbom-Larsson.

Yeah, there's definitely a bug that infects Rangers players. You'd know all about that as an Oilers fan.

And if Klefbom trends up and McDonagh trends down. IF. I'm so tired of 'IF' on this board.

If means nothing. Proven players>players with potential in every facet of reality. Except for this stupid site.

Good luck waiting on your ifs to manifest into something remotely resembling a competitive hockey club.

 

[Seachd]

If means nothing. Proven players>players with potential in every facet of reality. Except for this stupid site.

I love when people say this so concretely, even though that's not how it works.

 

[Sniper99]

RNH > Stepan.

Not even close.

 

[Machinehead]

Stepan makes me nauseous and I still take him over RNH 10/10 times.

Rangers are downgrading at both positions here.

And even if you prefer RNH to Stepan, if you think the gap is equivalent to that between McDonagh and Klefbom, you're lost at sea.

 

[thadd]

I'm sure EDM would jump at the chance to get older and pay more money.

without addressing a need.

That's pretty much what I was thinking before I even entered this thread.

What could they offer up? The Rangers don't have anything that address our needs on the table and their core players are mostly overpaid.

Tell ya what, I'd do 3 1st rounders since we're gonna need some cap space but I won't do it this season.
With Hopkins in the fold the Rangers would be more competitive and those first rounders would continue to be late ones.

There's no way they'd end up like the Leafs did with the Kessel trade and cough up 2nd and 10th overall.

Edmonton can use those first rounders to make trades later on or to keep the cupboard stocked with tons of yummy prospects.

 

[Revelation]

Yeah, there's definitely a bug that infects Rangers players. You'd know all about that as an Oilers fan.

And if Klefbom trends up and McDonagh trends down. IF. I'm so tired of 'IF' on this board.

If means nothing. Proven players>players with potential in every facet of reality. Except for this stupid site.

Good luck waiting on your ifs to manifest into something remotely resembling a competitive hockey club.

So your GM just traded a proven player for a player with potential because proven players>players with potential, amirite.

McDonaugh has looked like garbage for a while, and the Oilers aren't gonna trade good players entering their prime for marginally better players (in McDonaugh's case, you can easily make a case for RNH over Stepan) about to exit their prime. There's nothing in it for the Oilers unless they're seeking to win the cup next year.

 

[zar]

Yeah, there's definitely a bug that infects Rangers players. You'd know all about that as an Oilers fan.

And if Klefbom trends up and McDonagh trends down. IF. I'm so tired of 'IF' on this board.

If means nothing. Proven players>players with potential in every facet of reality. Except for this stupid site.

Good luck waiting on your ifs to manifest into something remotely resembling a competitive hockey club.

Great... what can we give you for Vesey and Buchnevich.

Anyways... RNH is more VALUABLE than Stepan when considering age, contract and ceiling. Stepan at $6.5AAV for the next 5 years and a NMC/NTC vs RNH at $6AAV, no NTC/NMC.

McDonagh (3 years @ $4.7AAV) is more valuable to the team expecting to be competing for the Cup in the next couple years. Klefbom and his contract, 7 years @ $4.167AAV, is irreplaceable, period. When you need to sign guys like McDavid in a few years, contracts like Klefbom and Larsson are key.

 

[McSuper]

Yeah, there's definitely a bug that infects Rangers players. You'd know all about that as an Oilers fan.

And if Klefbom trends up and McDonagh trends down. IF. I'm so tired of 'IF' on this board.

If means nothing.

Proven players>players with potential in every facet of reality.

Except for this stupid site.

Good luck waiting on your ifs to manifest into something remotely resembling a competitive hockey club.

Really have to call you on that one . Reality a rebuilding team would value a prospect more then a high paid vet who will be past his prime before they can compete . Do you think TML would trade Matthews for a more proven C ( Stepan )? I understand this is why the NYR should keep all their proven vets and not quit trying to trade Staal for picks and prospect ..... And then there another guy who plays D that the fans are always trying to trade ( Girardi )

Not trying to flame you just wanted to point out you can not make a blanket statement as it not quite as black and white as you stated

 

[ghdi]

Proven players>players with potential in every facet of reality.

Except its not this cut and dry. It's entirely dependent on where each team making any sort of transaction are in terms of their current status. The salary cap has also changed everything where getting younger also means getting more affordable. Potential carries value in ways it never had before the lockout was instituted.

There are plenty of situations where potential > proven players. Even bonafide stars like Phil Kessel get traded for futures. We're in an era where proven players can even be GIVEN away if only for financial relief.

I would argue that a team like the Rangers, who are not in the best of positions in respect to the cap at the moment would benefit trading a proven player (i.e. Nash) for potential. That's another negative to your argument as well. The cost of some proven players affect a team's ability to ever get "equal value" in return, especially ones that have large financial commitments.

That being said, I wouldnt like the OP's proposal for the Rangers today, but it could look a lot better in a year. I also agree that HF especially tends to overvalue potential, but there's a reason for it, this board just tends to take it to extremes.

 

[WesMcCauley]

That's pretty much what I was thinking before I even entered this thread.

What could they offer up? The Rangers don't have anything that address our needs on the table and their core players are mostly overpaid.

Tell ya what, I'd do 3 1st rounders since we're gonna need some cap space but I won't do it this season.
With Hopkins in the fold the Rangers would be more competitive and those first rounders would continue to be late ones.

There's no way they'd end up like the Leafs did with the Kessel trade and cough up 2nd and 10th overall.

Edmonton can use those first rounders to make trades later on or to keep the cupboard stocked with tons of yummy prospects.

Core players overpaid?
Zucc best forward 4,5 extremely good contract
Mcdonagh best defensemen 4,7 extremely good contract
Stepan 6,5 fair contract
Kreider 4,6 fair contract
Zibanajad 2,6 very good contract but rfa next season
Jt miller 2,6 very good bridge deal
Hayes 2,7 very good bridge deal
Klein 2,9 very good contract
Nash 7,8 more than fair when he scores 40+ Goals like he did 2 seasons ago, bad when he is injured etc but he is old and Edm would never trade for him anyway
Staal 5,7 top 4D overpaid by 1 mill or something. Not like Edm need another LH defensemen anyway

Girardi isnt the core of the team anymore but he is overpaid by all 5,5 mill which is his cap hit. 32+ not like Edm is gonna trade for him anyway. If it wasnt for this contract we would have a very good structure of our contracts etc. Could have been alot worse.
Nash can score 40+ or be injured half the season, only 2 years left anyway so not a bad contract. Rest of the forwards,Mcdonagh, Klein,Skjei,Mcilrath etcAre all on great contracts so when you say our core players Are mostly overpaid you are lost....

 

[bucks_oil]

No dog in this fight. Not an EDM or NYR FAN. RNH and Stepan are similar in value. RNH was anything but great last year, but I'm willing to write that off and say he'll return to form this year.

You aren't basing this off just a couple of WHC games, are you? Cause if you are, that's a pretty small sample size. Why not look at their actual careers?

You are right, looking at their careers, Stepan and RNH have very similar offensive numbers. 0.70 to 0.71 ppg... couldn't get any closer.

But then I see that one guy is three years older and is more expensive.

I stick with the guy who is, offensively equivalent (today), younger, cheaper... and already has experience playing nightly against the top C in the west. Not sure you would find a GM to disagree.

 

[bucks_oil]

RNH and Stepan are very similar players with very similar production. Like others have said on ice they are basically a wash.

I'd say RNH gets the edge as the more valuable player though because he is younger has a cheaper contract both cap hit wise and actual money wise. Also RNH doesn't have any sort of NTC/NMC on his contract which Stepan does.


We're giving up the more valuable C to get the more valuable D but at the end of the day Edmonton doesn't do it because they need to add another top 4 (preferably RHD) without subtracting one.

Balanced and fair analysis.

I'd certainly do Klef for McD on its own, but no way to Kreider for RNH and to me that tips it too far... as you said, arguably without addressing a need.

 

[bucks_oil]

Good insight, Is Klefbom the higher prized young Defenseman out of him and nurse?

Certainly less question marks and far more ready to contribute NOW.

Klef is viewed as a surefire #2 on a contender (and currently a #2 on a ... not contender).

Nurse is more boom-bust... boom = big, smooth, mean #1D with 35-45 point upside... downside is big, mean 2nd pairing guy who can skate with any player in the league but maybe relies more on passion than brains.

 

[tony d]

RNH, Klefblom, a 2017 2nd for Mcdonagh.

 

[Trxjw]

I think the Rangers would much rather keep Stepan and McDonagh.

 

[WesMcCauley]

RNH, Klefblom, a 2017 2nd for Mcdonagh.

NYR doesnt need another 1b center. Already have Stepan, Zibanajad, Hayes, Lindberg etc down the middle. RNH isnt better than Stepan. Zibanajad has looked incredible in preseason so far, Hayes has tons of talent and elite pp60 min numbers. Lindberg is a great middle 6/bottom 6 twoway center.
We need a real #1 elite center but they are pretty hard to find/trade for. Only reason to trade Mcdonagh is for a 19-23 year old top defensive prospect/young player if NYR decide to really retool/rebuild.
Doesnt fill a need for NYR really... You dont trade a #1 defensemen for 1B center and a #3 defensemen. You need a #1 defensemen to win, you need to get something special back, not "just" two very good players.

 

[WesMcCauley]

McD looks sketchy... maybe he got the same bug Redden, Staal and Girardi got from being on the Rangers too long. If Klefbom trends up and McD trends down that's not a good swap for the oilers, especially with the 4 year age difference.

Likewise, RNH vs Stepan 3 year age difference and they're about the same, much less difference than between Brassard and Zibanejad. Rangers take this and run as fast as they can given that they basically get a free 3-4 years prime years out of similar cost/ability players. This is like 2 Weber-Subban trades on a smaller scale with the Rangers getting Subbans and Oilers getting Webers. Rangers set themselves up very nicely for the future with Zibanejad, RNH (who'd flourish in the East), Buch, Vesey, Hayes, Klefbom, Skrej, McIlrath all without tanking.

Oilers only do this if they thing McDonaugh is really that good... and I think they're banking on a swedish chemistry booster with Klefbom-Larsson.

His name is Mcdonagh not Mcdonaugh and he doesnt look sketchy. He plays alot with the biggest anchor in the league. His cf% drops by 10% or something when he plays with Girardi compared to just a solid top 4 defensemen in Klein. Girardi had 37CF% without Mcdonagh or something. 42 or something with him. Mcdonagh has 54 or something without Girardi,45 or something with him. Mcdonagh looks great everytime you take Girardi out of the lineup/same pair as Mcdonagh. Every player who plays with Girardi looks alot worse and their CF% drops by alot.

 

[TGWL]

RNH, Klefblom, a 2017 2nd for Mcdonagh.

Not sure if serious? If serious, please stop.

 

[MoonDragn]

RNH ~ Stepan
Klefbom < McDonagh right now but you are comparing a 23 yr old to a 27 yr old and Klefbom's potential is sky high. Going to be really good down the line.