Rielly ranked #1 of 2012 draft class in TSN (Craig Button) Top 30 NHL Prospects

[Frankie]

Ray Ferraro said the exact same thing, go watch the game and then get back to me. Until then you have no argument.

well if ray ferraro said it, it must be true.

i refuse to discredit rielly like this. i believe he earned his success and deserves full marks for it.

 

[Frankie]

You don't watch the games anyways, and still comment on his play.

yes, good point! i'm commenting mostly on the stats. maybe i should have said "following and commenting".

but at least i'll admit i haven't watched the games so far. nobody commenting here has actually watched these games at such odd times. i'd bet a lot of money on it. nobody going to admit that though.

 

[4evaBlue]

yes, good point! i'm commenting mostly on the stats. maybe i should have said "following and commenting".

but at least i'll admit i haven't watched the games so far. nobody commenting here has actually watched these games at such odd times. i'd bet a lot of money on it. nobody going to admit that though.

Stats for hockey are pretty lackluster in general, with a lot of useless, and easily misinterpreted stats (*cough* garbage "advanced" stats). This is even more so the case for junior hockey, where they don't even keep track of ToI.

You make assumptions based on a sound coach's decisions, but the majority of us watching the games seem to agree that the guy is an idiot (Rielly's lack of icetime is just one of the many issues that have been raised).

 

[Bomber0104]

Stats for hockey are pretty lackluster in general, with a lot of useless, and easily misinterpreted stats (*cough* garbage "advanced" stats). This is even more so the case for junior hockey, where they don't even keep track of ToI.

You make assumptions based on a sound coach's decisions, but the majority of us watching the games seem to agree that the guy is an idiot (Rielly's lack of icetime is just one of the many issues that have been raised).

Stats are more relevant for someone like Rielly than Harrington though.

If Rielly is scoring hes doing his job. He hasn't really been given much opportunity to show his defensive quality and maybe theres a reason for that.

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

yes, good point! i'm commenting mostly on the stats. maybe i should have said "following and commenting".

but at least i'll admit i haven't watched the games so far. nobody commenting here has actually watched these games at such odd times. i'd bet a lot of money on it. nobody going to admit that though.

It's called a PVR, and TSN replays the Canada games twice every day.

 

[HeroNtF]

Well I will point out, since no one else has, Rielly is tied with Yakupov at four points. Rielly also has him with a better +/- (1) and has more shots on net, also in two games not Nails three. Not bad.

 

[Stephen]

yes, good point! i'm commenting mostly on the stats. maybe i should have said "following and commenting".

but at least i'll admit i haven't watched the games so far. nobody commenting here has actually watched these games at such odd times. i'd bet a lot of money on it. nobody going to admit that though.

TSN shows two replays a day...

 

[RogerRoeper*]

Cherry picked stats. Before his down years in Anaheim (when they were terrible defensively too like Toronto) he was a .915-.920 goalie.

When he played behind a defensive style Colorado team, he improved.

Yeah when he was younger and in his prime. You're now going back 5+ years ago when he was still in his 20's and healthy.

Your argument is now getting silly.

 

[Hurt]

yes, good point! i'm commenting mostly on the stats. maybe i should have said "following and commenting".

but at least i'll admit i haven't watched the games so far. nobody commenting here has actually watched these games at such odd times. i'd bet a lot of money on it. nobody going to admit that though.

What fact do you have with that assumption? Even IF people didn't watch the game live (many did, check the GDTs in the WJHC Forum and they're filling up quite fast every game and that's just a small sample of people who view our forums in the first place), the games are aired again usually around noon and again in the evening. Even AFTER that, you still haven't seen the games, well why comment going based off stats? Rielly has been great this tournament so far, has only made a couple of minor mistakes and his skating and offensive ability is unparalleled to any of our D-men draft picks in a long time and he shows great puck poise and maturity as well.

 

[4evaBlue]

Stats are more relevant for someone like Rielly than Harrington though.

If Rielly is scoring hes doing his job. He hasn't really been given much opportunity to show his defensive quality and maybe theres a reason for that.

Noone's going to get the points up if they don't get the icetime (which they don't keep track of). It's actually pretty amazing that Rielly's been able to pull off what he has so far, with how little he was given to work with (by far the least among all Canadian defenders).

Rielly's has been our most reliable defensemen to date. Unlike the rest of our defense, he's yet to make a single mistake in his own zone. You tell me, what do you think the reason(s) for Rielly not getting more defensive responsibilities are? Why does the coach keep going back to the same dud who makes mistakes one after another in all three zones?

 

[Bomber0104]

Noone's going to get the points up if they don't get the icetime (which they don't keep track of). It's actually pretty amazing that Rielly's been able to pull off what he has so far, with how little he was given to work with (by far the least among all Canadian defenders).

Rielly's has been our most reliable defensemen to date. Unlike the rest of our defense, he's yet to make a single mistake in his own zone. You tell me, what do you think the reason(s) for Rielly not getting more defensive responsibilities are? Why does the coach keep going back to the same dud who makes mistakes one after another in all three zones?

If you're talking about Murphy Im not sure why.

But I'll tell you...Rielly has put up his numbers on the powerplay.

You're saying he's owed more time on the PP, and Im sure the coach realizes this now that he converted with Ouellete.

5-on-5 he has yet to make an impact. This would be the next step for Rielly and he knows it. He needs to impress 5-on-5.

 

[conway902]

Noone's going to get the points up if they don't get the icetime (which they don't keep track of). It's actually pretty amazing that Rielly's been able to pull off what he has so far, with how little he was given to work with (by far the least among all Canadian defenders).

Rielly's has been our most reliable defensemen to date. Unlike the rest of our defense, he's yet to make a single mistake in his own zone. You tell me, what do you think the reason(s) for Rielly not getting more defensive responsibilities are? Why does the coach keep going back to the same dud who makes mistakes one after another in all three zones?

I don't recall Rielly being on the ice for any goals against in the 4 games they have played???? He is leading the D in points with the least amount of ice time, I really don't understand the reason for lack of ice time.

 

[Hurt]

This thread is about Morgan Rielly not JS Giguere. Stay on topic or you'll be removed from the thread.

 

[4evaBlue]

If you're talking about Murphy Im not sure why.

But I'll tell you...Rielly has put up his numbers on the powerplay.

You're saying he's owed more time on the PP, and Im sure the coach realizes this now that he converted with Ouellete.

5-on-5 he has yet to make an impact. This would be the next step for Rielly and he knows it. He needs to impress 5-on-5.

The mere fact that he's been so reliable in his own zone should be enough to earn him more 5-on-5 icetime, even if he didn't help generate any offense (which he has with 2 assists, I believe). Murphy has been awful in all around, Hamilton, and Harrington have made plenty of mistakes in their own end, as has Wotherspoon.

So, on one hand, you have defenders getting tons of icetime, and responsibilities, who are making mistakes, on the other, you have a severely underutilized defensemen, who has been very reliable in his own end with the limited responsibilities given to him.

Why is Rielly the only one who has to impress in order to earn more icetime? The rest of Canada's blue line certainly hasn't been all that impressive. Actually, Ouellet's been decent, but my point still stands.

 

[Kadri43*]

If the Leafs have any aspirations of winning and not continuing to be the worst team in the league and help out their goalies then they would be wise to NOT have 3.5 pure offensive defencemen on the team. With 2.5 pure offensive defencemen I already think thats too many and adding another rookie one will not help the Leafs improve their LAST PLACED goals against total. Rielly would be a terrible pairing for Phaneuf (while not being a PURE O-Dman) because that line would bleed goals against every single game. Gunnarsson should be with Phaneuf which would be a shutdown line. Then who does Gardiner play with ....another offensive defenceman...? Really who? Then Liles? Who?

If you want to see Seth Jones drafted (wouldnt be the end of the world) then sure lets load up the leagues worst defence with a pure offensive threat at the expense of a roster spot for a defensive defenceman. Im sure Burke and Nonis get fired too in that event.

I do not disagree with this post. At the same time, I want to point out the fact that having more offensive defensemen will result in you being in your own zone less. Defensive defensemen generally are less able to carry the puck, move the puck and make good decisions. Having offensive defensemen is great because you will have possession of the puck more often with less turnovers. To demonstrate, how many goals did Erik Karlsson save last season simply because he always had the puck and could hold on to it for long durations while setting up offence.
Now I understand that only having offensive defensemen is not ideal. I do agree that a Rielly Phaneuf pairing would be less than ideal. I would like to give him sheltered minutes in his first season. I also want to point out that Rielly looks really solid defensively. He can skate, read plays, possesses an active stick and is quite strong. I see nothing wrong with his defensive abilities. However, I am sure once he reaches the NHL level, we will see what he is really made of. However, in the junior games I have watched and the WJC I have been more than impressed with Rielly in the defensive zone coverage.

 

[Bomber0104]

The mere fact that he's been so reliable in his own zone should be enough to earn him more 5-on-5 icetime, even if he didn't help generate any offense (which he has with 2 assists, I believe). Murphy has been awful in all around, Hamilton, and Harrington have made plenty of mistakes in their own end, as has Wotherspoon.

So, on one hand, you have defenders getting tons of icetime, and responsibilities, who are making mistakes, on the other, you have a severely underutilized defensemen, who has been very reliable in his own end with the limited responsibilities given to him.

Why is Rielly the only one who has to impress in order to earn more icetime? The rest of Canada's blue line certainly hasn't been all that impressive. Actually, Ouellet's been decent, but my point still stands.

Well I personally think that Ouellet and Harrington have been fantastic defensively from what I've seen. Hamilton needs to elevate his game no doubt.

I have a hunch we are going to see Oulette and Rielly emerge as the 2nd pairing 5 on 5 and that means more ice time.

We'll see tomorrow morning.

Can't wait.

 

[4evaBlue]

I do not disagree with this post. At the same time, I want to point out the fact that having more offensive defensemen will result in you being in your own zone less. Defensive defensemen generally are less able to carry the puck, move the puck and make good decisions. Having offensive defensemen is great because you will have possession of the puck more often with less turnovers. To demonstrate, how many goals did Erik Karlsson save last season simply because he always had the puck and could hold on to it for long durations while setting up offence.
Now I understand that only having offensive defensemen is not ideal. I do agree that a Rielly Phaneuf pairing would be less than ideal. I would like to give him sheltered minutes in his first season. I also want to point out that Rielly looks really solid defensively. He can skate, read plays, possesses an active stick and is quite strong. I see nothing wrong with his defensive abilities. However, I am sure once he reaches the NHL level, we will see what he is really made of. However, in the junior games I have watched and the WJC I have been more than impressed with Rielly in the defensive zone coverage.

Offensive defensemen are generally better with the puck, but are usually worse at recovering the puck. Unless you have a team that never plans to turn over the puck, you'll need players who will be able to get it back for you (put opponents through the glass to separate them from the puck, etc).

 

[Kadri43*]

Offensive defensemen are generally better with the puck, but are usually worse at recovering the puck. Unless you have a team that never plans to turn over the puck, you'll need players who will be able to get it back for you (put opponents through the glass to separate them from the puck, etc).

I agree with everything you just said. However, I do not think people are aware that offensive defensemen are also capable of being sound defensively.

 

[Bomber0104]

I do not disagree with this post. At the same time, I want to point out the fact that having more offensive defensemen will result in you being in your own zone less. Defensive defensemen generally are less able to carry the puck, move the puck and make good decisions. Having offensive defensemen is great because you will have possession of the puck more often with less turnovers. To demonstrate, how many goals did Erik Karlsson save last season simply because he always had the puck and could hold on to it for long durations while setting up offence.
Now I understand that only having offensive defensemen is not ideal. I do agree that a Rielly Phaneuf pairing would be less than ideal. I would like to give him sheltered minutes in his first season. I also want to point out that Rielly looks really solid defensively. He can skate, read plays, possesses an active stick and is quite strong. I see nothing wrong with his defensive abilities. However, I am sure once he reaches the NHL level, we will see what he is really made of. However, in the junior games I have watched and the WJC I have been more than impressed with Rielly in the defensive zone coverage.

Oh I'm not saying puck moving and skilled defenders are a bad thing at all. Just that you need a mix of defensive styles with offensive styled defenders. Having a two in one is obviously a bonus.

The Leafs have something like this in my opinion:

Phaneuf (Offensive B+ , Defensive C+) - Gunnarsson (Offensive C, Defensive B)

Gardiner (Offensive B , Defensive C-) - Komisarek (Offensive D, Defensive C+)

Liles (Offensive B , Defensive C) - Franson (Offensive B- , Defensive C)

Reilly might be a Offensive B+ or if all goes as planned an A or A+ but we really need to understand what his Defensive ability is at the next level because as you might notice, the Leafs defensive quality is really poor with Carl Gunnarsson of all players in the world our best defensive defenceman.

 

[Bomber0104]

Offensive defensemen are generally better with the puck, but are usually worse at recovering the puck. Unless you have a team that never plans to turn over the puck, you'll need players who will be able to get it back for you (put opponents through the glass to separate them from the puck, etc).

I agree entirely. Size, strength, toughness, and mobility required.

 

[zeke]

Boston has a much better top 6 than the Leafs on defense.

No they don't.

Yet everyone agrees that Dougie Hamilton would have likely been on the Bruins this year had there been a season.

No they don't.

Rielly should have no trouble making the Leafs' top 6 for 2013-14. Another year in junior does him no good, he's already too good for that level.

True enough.

 

[zeke]

there you go with your little "heh" again. we know what that means. that means you've backed yourself into a corner and you know you're wrong.

canada's wjc coaches are not "notorious" for anything within your little pretend inner circle. like every other hockey team trying to win, the best players play the most.

The "inner circle" would be "those who actually watch the games", so its no surprise that you feel left out as a result.

 

[Bomber0104]

No they don't.



No they don't.



True enough.

I've seen and read what you thought about Boston in the past.

Let's not try this again.

 

[Bomber0104]

The "inner circle" would be "those who actually watch the games", so its no surprise that you feel left out as a result.

Why would Team Canada not play their best players?

They don't want to win Gold?

What do they owe to these "veteran" 18 and 19 year olds?

 

[leugangen]

Stats for hockey are pretty lackluster in general, with a lot of useless, and easily misinterpreted stats (*cough* garbage "advanced" stats). This is even more so the case for junior hockey, where they don't even keep track of ToI.

"Garbage" advanced stats can be way more effective at tell you how good a player actually is, so I wonder what you are talking about.