Rielly ranked #1 of 2012 draft class in TSN (Craig Button) Top 30 NHL Prospects

[Bomber0104]

If you want to wallow in your own ignorance, that's fine by me. I'm certainly not going to waste my time looking up more quotes to spoonfeed you with, especially when you dismiss such a clear quote from an nhl gm like that, and make up strawmen like "preferential treatment" to do it.

if you want to be ignorant, i won't stop you.

So in other words,

you dont have a quote for me?

Really just want proof of this outlandish statement:

Team Canada coaches and managers in the past have never been shy about sharing their belief that this is a tournament for 19yr olds, and there are countless examples of them leaning on veterabs over highly skilled 17 nd 18yr olds. they believe that this gives them the best chance to win

Unless.....

And therefore should be ignored.

 

[Gutchecktime]

So in other words,

you dont have a quote for me?

Strikes me as odd that you won't acknowledge that WJC coaches prefer to lean heavily on 19 year olds and younger players aren't always afforded the opportunities their talent would normally dictate.

This seems like basic common knowledge among anyone who's watched this tournament... well pretty much ever.

 

[Bomber0104]

Strikes me as odd that you won't acknowledge that WJC coaches prefer to lean heavily on 19 year olds and younger players aren't always afforded the opportunities their talent would normally dictate.

This seems like basic common knowledge among anyone who's watched this tournament... well pretty much ever.

Again, you are telling me coaches don't want the best team possible and give themselves a less than ideal roster to not give themselves the best chance at gold?

For what reason?

These 19 year olds dont have the money to be bribing the coach....

 

[Gutchecktime]

Again, you are telling me coaches don't want the best team possible and give themselves a less than ideal roster to not give themselves the best chance at gold?

For what reason?

These 19 year olds dont have the money to be bribing the coach....

I'm telling you that they feel going with "vets" is the safer option and often default to that at the expense of some really, really skilled kids. I'm surprised that you seem to deny that plenty of times age trumps talent in this tournament when it comes to icetime. It's not always the wrong decision but I do think there's an undeniable bias there.

 

[Stephen]

Again, you are telling me coaches don't want the best team possible and give themselves a less than ideal roster to not give themselves the best chance at gold?

For what reason?

These 19 year olds dont have the money to be bribing the coach....

How much ice time is a guy like Nathan Mackinnon getting? He could possibly be the most gifted prospect on the roster.

There's no excuse being made here, but it's pretty standard for the oldest veterans to get the heavy workload until someone breaks through and forces their hand.

 

[Bomber0104]

I'm telling you that they feel going with "vets" is the safer option and often default to that at the expense of some really, really skilled kids. I'm surprised that you seem to deny that plenty of times age trumps talent in this tournament when it comes to icetime. It's not always the wrong decision but I do think there's an undeniable bias there.

Sometimes safer is better. You know what you are getting. Sure some skilled kids COULD offer more, but's it's inconsistent. It's not like this tournament is 25 games long. You need results right away.

How much ice time is a guy like Nathan Mackinnon getting? He could possibly be the most gifted prospect on the roster.

There's no excuse being made here, but it's pretty standard for the oldest veterans to get the heavy workload until someone breaks through and forces their hand.

Nathan Mackinnon is playing behind Nugent Hopkins and Strome...two prospects that I would easily play him behind at center.

Jenner is a third line grinder and defensive specialist so there's your third liner.

Playing on the fourth line is not so bad. You have Rattie to play with. Not exactly chopped liver right?

 

[Gutchecktime]

Sometimes safer is better. You know what you are getting. Sure some skilled kids COULD offer more, but's it's inconsistent. It's not like this tournament is 25 games long. You need results right away.

Sometimes it is, yes, I acknowledged that. But that doesn't change the fact that that's how it usually works so I'm confused as to why you're acting like this is something that poster is just pulling out of his ass.

Anyways, in this particular case it may be just because Spott is more familiar with Murphy because of their Junior ties than his age - to me Rielly has showed he deserves more ice time and Murphy that he deserves less. I'm not really sure why Spott seems to have decided that Rielly is incapable of playing at ES but it certainly seems that way from the ice time distribution. I would continue with Rielly-Ouellet and play the crap out of them personally. Ouellet's been solid.

 

[Bomber0104]

Sometimes it is, yes, I acknowledged that. But that doesn't change the fact that that's how it usually works so I'm confused as to why you're acting like this is something that poster is just pulling out of his ass.

He said that coaches and managers of Team Canada have long stated (and "not been shy" despite no quote on record) that this is a tournament for 19 year olds and they will be played whether it is deserved or not. For the record.

I am quite skeptical of that since teams want to win and owe nothing to individual players (especially 19 year old with nothing to offer in return)

Anyways, in this particular case it may be just because Spott is more familiar with Murphy because of their Junior ties than his age - to me Rielly has showed he deserves more ice time and Murphy that he deserves less. I'm not really sure why Spott seems to have decided that Rielly is incapable of playing at ES but it certainly seems that way from the ice time distribution. I would continue with Rielly-Ouellet and play the crap out of them personally. Ouellet's been solid.

I agree which is why I have said many times that I expect Rielly and Oullete to be the 2nd pairing (which means ES too) going forward.

Because Rielly has earned his icetime with his improved play and others' declining level of play.

 

[Kadri43*]

How much ice time is a guy like Nathan Mackinnon getting? He could possibly be the most gifted prospect on the roster.

There's no excuse being made here, but it's pretty standard for the oldest veterans to get the heavy workload until someone breaks through and forces their hand.

I think there is some truth to both the arguments being presented. I thought Mac has played extremely well. He and Rielly definitely deserve more ice time whereas Murphy and Hamilton deserve less.

 

[Bomber0104]

I think there is some truth to both the arguments being presented. I thought Mac has played extremely well. He and Rielly definitely deserve more ice time whereas Murphy and Hamilton deserve less.

I think MacKinnon and Drouin could do some damage with Ritchie no doubt but Strome you really do have the sure thing.

I personally think Seth Jones is the better talent.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

So in other words,

you dont have a quote for me?

Really just want proof of this outlandish statement:



Unless.....

And therefore should be ignored.

Interesting to hear you say this today when yesterday, the exact same argument was put to you and you pedalled like no other.

 

[Bomber0104]

Interesting to hear you say this today when yesterday, the exact same argument was put to you and you pedalled like no other.

I have never been a conspiracy theorist, no.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I have never been a conspiracy theorist, no.

Just when it pertains to Leaf management "cover ups".

 

[Bomber0104]

Just when it pertains to Leaf management "cover ups".

Yes. It's called a coaching strategy. I'll bet you Wilson thought it up. Burke always said he was the smarter one right?

Cover up your players injuries and past injuries in order to protect them from getting targeted in the future.

Seems pretty logical to me.

 

[Frankie]

Stats for hockey are pretty lackluster in general, with a lot of useless, and easily misinterpreted stats (*cough* garbage "advanced" stats). This is even more so the case for junior hockey, where they don't even keep track of ToI.

You make assumptions based on a sound coach's decisions, but the majority of us watching the games seem to agree that the guy is an idiot (Rielly's lack of icetime is just one of the many issues that have been raised).

are you saying rielly actually didn't do any better in the slovakia game than he did in the germany game?

because the consensus here is that he most certainly did, and the stats show that he did. but you don't think he did?

 

[Frankie]

TSN shows two replays a day...

and you're watching them closely, while already knowing the outcome of the game?

nonsense. why watch a replay? just so you can scout rielly?

 

[Frankie]

What fact do you have with that assumption? Even IF people didn't watch the game live (many did, check the GDTs in the WJHC Forum and they're filling up quite fast every game and that's just a small sample of people who view our forums in the first place), the games are aired again usually around noon and again in the evening. Even AFTER that, you still haven't seen the games, well why comment going based off stats? Rielly has been great this tournament so far, has only made a couple of minor mistakes and his skating and offensive ability is unparalleled to any of our D-men draft picks in a long time and he shows great puck poise and maturity as well.

rielly has been great so far, which is exactly what i'm saying. the stats i'm reading jive totally with that. so what's the problem?

 

[Frankie]

Yep just as suspected.

After you saw rielly's 3pts in the boxscore, you rushed back to this thread in embarassment and tried to cover your tracks, hilariously trying to claim you were still right after being proven so clearly wrong so quickly. when called on it, you then proceeded to make things up about how and why rielly plsyed which only made it clear that you hadn't even watched the game. and all this becayse you are scared of being embarassed on an nternet message board.

that deserves yet another hearty HEH.

cover my tracks? i said all along that i expected rielly to be great in this tournament. and he has been great.

you're the one who didn't expect him to do anything. you came up with excuse after excuse as to why he couldn't possibly perform well. those excuses have been proven dead wrong. you have been proven dead wrong.

"mass panic" in game one against germany. that's funny. really, you have to do better than that.

stop this charade, admit you were wrong, and give morgan rielly the credit he deserves.

 

[dubey]

Rielly is having a great tournament

I know because the internet told me so

 

[Bomber0104]

rielly has been great so far, which is exactly what i'm saying. the stats i'm reading jive totally with that. so what's the problem?

I don't think Rielly has been great.

Good, yes. Great, no.

 

[Frankie]

Rielly is having a great tournament

I know because the internet told me so

is that wrong?

tell us if you feel he's not doing great so far.

 

[Gutchecktime]

are you saying rielly actually didn't do any better in the slovakia game than he did in the germany game?

because the consensus here is that he most certainly did, and the stats show that he did. but you don't think he did?

To me, I saw a direct correlation between receiving more opportunities and these improved stats.

In the first period of the Slovakia game, he didn't get a chance to show that much at all as he barely had a handful of shifts. With Canada trailing, embellishing to draw penalties, he started receiving a bit more ice time and capitalized.

I'm not sure why this didn't result in significantly more ice time in the third and to me the fact that he didn't, doesn't seem to help your argument that much.

You're saying he received more ice time because he played better, but then why didn't he continue to receive significantly more in the third after his three points?

 

[Bomber0104]

To me, I saw a direct correlation between receiving more opportunities and these improved stats.

In the first period of the Slovakia game, he didn't get a chance to show that much at all as he barely had a handful of shifts. With Canada trailing, embellishing to draw penalties, he started receiving a bit more ice time and capitalized.

I'm not sure why this didn't result in significantly more ice time in the third and to me the fact that he didn't, doesn't seem to help your argument that much.

You're saying he received more ice time because he played better, but then why didn't he continue to receive significantly more in the third after his three points?

Rielly's icetime has been correlated to the amount of powerplay opportunities for Canada. Basically Spott is using him as the PowerPlay weapon. Last game versus Slovakia and the other game versus Germany he converted.

I personally would like to see him have a few notable shifts even strength...where defensemen (like Dougie Hamilton) play a lot.

 

[Gutchecktime]

Rielly's icetime has been correlated to the amount of powerplay opportunities for Canada. Basically Spott is using him as the PowerPlay weapon. Last game versus Slovakia and the other game versus Germany he converted.

I personally would like to see him have a few notable shifts even strength...where defensemen (like Dougie Hamilton) play a lot.

So you agree then... He's not receiving more ice time because he's playing better, he played better because he received more ice time.

 

[Bomber0104]

So you agree then... He's not receiving more ice time because he's playing better, he played better because he received more ice time.

Well he's been playing all along, predominately on the powerplay...not like he's been absent all tournament long right?

The pre tourney games he was very quiet and invisible.

The first game versus the Germans he converted on a primary assist.

Last game versus the Slovaks, he converted, a goal and two secondaries.

He should get more icetime, including preferential PP time, and 2nd pairing with Oulette going forward.

Only a reasonable coach would do that. Go with the hot hand? This is a short tournament right? Only so much time to find chemistry.

As I've said before, Rielly seems like the kind of player that gets comfortable as time goes on.