Rielly ranked #1 of 2012 draft class in TSN (Craig Button) Top 30 NHL Prospects

[Bomber0104]

"Garbage" advanced stats can be way more effective at tell you how good a player actually is, so I wonder what you are talking about.

Based off +/- largely. Dressing up a flawed stat doesn't make the subsequent stat any less flawed than the original.

 

[4evaBlue]

I agree with everything you just said. However, I do not think people are aware that offensive defensemen are also capable of being sound defensively.

Absolutely.

The issue for me is two-fold.

First, with each passing season with the addition of more and more puck movers, our blue line is growing softer. If this keeps up, we may as well change our logo from a Leaf to a pillow.

Second, and probably more important, is that when you have too many offensive defensemen on the roster, some will need to take on a defensive role on a semi-permanent basis. Why would we want to turn Gardiner, or Rielly into another Gunnarsson?

Unless the defensive pairings develop amazing chemistry, to a point where they can read each others' minds, and know when the other will pinch, they may be very vulnerable defensively in an event of a turnover.

 

[Bomber0104]

Absolutely.

The issue for me is two-fold.

First, with each passing season with the addition of more and more puck movers, our blue line is growing softer. If this keeps up, we may as well change our logo from a Leaf to a pillow.

Second, and probably more important, is that when you have too many offensive defensemen on the roster, some will need to take on a defensive role on a semi-permanent basis. Why would we want to turn Gardiner, or Rielly into another Gunnarsson?

Unless the defensive pairings develop amazing chemistry, to a point where they can read each others' minds, and know when the other will pinch, they may be very vulnerable defensively in an event of a turnover.

Excellent insight.

A better question would be, is Gardiner and Rielly even capable of playing as smart as Gunnarsson defensively?

 

[4evaBlue]

"Garbage" advanced stats can be way more effective at tell you how good a player actually is, so I wonder what you are talking about.

Yes, I'm sure that's what the creators of the system would have you think. The reality is, it's a fundamentally flawed system, that most hockey professionals don't even bother with.

 

[zeke]

i didn't watch the game. didn't need to. i suspect you didn't watch it either.

all your excuses have been proven dead wrong. now you've created a desperate scenario in claiming there was mass panic against the germans. really, you should try to come up with something better.

actually, what you should do is admit you were wrong and give rielly the credit he deserves. i don't know why you're continuously trying to discredit him.

Yep just as suspected.

After you saw rielly's 3pts in the boxscore, you rushed back to this thread in embarassment and tried to cover your tracks, hilariously trying to claim you were still right after being proven so clearly wrong so quickly. when called on it, you then proceeded to make things up about how and why rielly plsyed which only made it clear that you hadn't even watched the game. and all this becayse you are scared of being embarassed on an nternet message board.

that deserves yet another hearty HEH.

 

[zeke]

well if ray ferraro said it, it must be true.

i refuse to discredit rielly like this. i believe he earned his success and deserves full marks for it.

Your juvenile attempts to discredit rielly are as transparent as they are false.

 

[Kadri43*]

Excellent insight.

A better question would be, is Gardiner and Rielly even capable of playing as smart as Gunnarsson defensively?

I believe that both players have the ability to be good defensively. I know it was Gardiner's first season and he was not great defensively. However, he possesses a high hockey IQ and can thus read plays. However, he is not overly physical and get pushed around, especially around the net. I believe that he needs to work on his strength and better positioning in the defensive zone. I think Rielly will be better in his own end. The kid is strong and always seems to be in a great position. His ability to read the play in his own end in Junior and the WJC has been amazing.
I realize I am comparing junior (Rielly) to the NHL (Gardiner). Rielly might be a huge defensive liability in the NHL. However, from what I have seen, he has been nothing short of phenomenal. The only thing Rielly needs to get much better at is his shot. I would say that is his biggest liability.
Is a shot more of an innate (do not take the strict psychological aspect of innate) rather than acquired skill?

 

[zeke]

Why would Team Canada not play their best players?

They don't want to win Gold?

What do they owe to these "veteran" 18 and 19 year olds?

Team Canada coaches and managers in the past have never been shy about sharing their belief that this is a tournament for 19yr olds, and there are countless examples of them leaning on veterabs over highly skilled 17 nd 18yr olds. they believe that this gives them the best chance to win, and they may be right.

there's nothing mysterious or surprising about coaches leaning on vets and giving rooks a shorter rope anyways, no matter what the team or sport, so your attempts to spin this into a grand cospiracy. theory are silly from the start.

 

[zeke]

I've seen and read what you thought about Boston in the past.

Let's not try this again.

can you even name all 6 boston dmen?

 

[dubey]

can you even name all 6 boston dmen?

I don't even think I can name anyone other than Chara

 

[SnipeCheeseAllDay]

Wouldn't mind grabbing Seth Jones this draft to toughen up our blue line. Like many have said, our dcore for the future is looking very soft but offensively talented.

Rielly - Phaneuf
Jones - Gardiner
Gunnarsson - Finn
-Percy/Holzer/Granberg/Nilsson

Liles, Komi, Franson all gone.

 

[Bomber0104]

Team Canada coaches and managers in the past have never been shy about sharing their belief that this is a tournament for 19yr olds, and there are countless examples of them leaning on veterabs over highly skilled 17 nd 18yr olds. they believe that this gives them the best chance to win, and they may be right.

there's nothing mysterious or surprising about coaches leaning on vets and giving rooks a shorter rope anyways, no matter what the team or sport, so your attempts to spin this into a grand cospiracy. theory are silly from the start.

Please quote their insistence that 19 year olds, regardless of talent, are prefered. I don't believe you can quote any such thing, and are talking right out of your behind.

As for that second "point" once again you are talking turkey. If a younger player is more talented skilled and productive, he will play. This is nothing but nonsense.

Please stop this behavior.

Rielly has started to produce on the powerplay after several attempts in the past. Great. We all expected it. Let's move on now to the next game's special teams.

 

[Bomber0104]

can you even name all 6 boston dmen?

I don't even think I can name anyone other than Chara

Yes attack me as a poster.

That certainly makes a compelling argument for yourself.

Tell you what zeke.

I'll make a poll on the main board.

I'll round up VeddarRants and the Bruins posters and you can prove to them (and me) how much better Toronto's defence has been over the years.

You did so well in the Bozak/Krecji and Stajan/Bergeron ones.

What do you say?

 

[zeke]

Attack you?

It was an honest question.

 

[dubey]

Yes attack me as a poster.

That certainly makes a compelling argument for yourself.

Tell you what zeke.

I'll make a poll on the main board.

I'll round up VeddarRants and the Bruins posters and you can prove to them (and me) how much better Toronto's defence has been over the years.

You did so well in the Bozak/Krecji and Stajan/Bergeron ones.

What do you say?

internet showdown!

 

[Bomber0104]

Attack you?

It was an honest question.

I think Bruins fans know them. What do you say we ask them?

Like I said, you did so well in the other Bruins polls (Stajan vs Bergeron specifically). I really need to see a repeat performance.

internet showdown!

I just really need to see the evidence. Admittedly I am saying the Bruins have a better defence without all the facts. We should get all of it I think.

 

[zeke]

Please quote their insistence that 19 year olds, regardless of talent, are prefered. I don't believe you can quote any such thing, and are talking right out of your behind.

As for that second "point" once again you are talking turkey. If a younger player is more talented skilled and productive, he will play. This is nothing but nonsense.

Please stop this behavior.

Rielly has started to produce on the powerplay after several attempts in the past. Great. We all expected it. Let's move on now to the next game's special teams.

Honestly, it's gstting pretty tirseome being attacked by people who don't watch the games and/or don't really foliw the wjc's in general.

if you haven't heard the wjc often described as a tourney for 19yr olds, especially in relation to contriversial roster selections, then that is simply your own ignorance of extremely common knowledge.

i'm not going to waste any more tiime searching for quotes to support this common knowledge, but here's the first link that came up on google, where you can read the STL GM saying exactly this: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hock...cle_cc0f11e3-d777-5923-89b9-0558d0cf5257.html

 

[Bomber0104]

Honestly, it's gstting pretty tirseome being attacked by people who don't watch the games and/or don't really foliw the wjc's in general.

if you haven't heard the wjc often described as a tourney for 19yr olds, especially in relation to contriversial roster selections, then that is simply your own ignorance of extremely common knowledge.

i'm not going to waste any more tiime searching for quotes to support this common knowledge, but here's the first link that came up on google, where you can read the STL GM saying exactly this: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hock...cle_cc0f11e3-d777-5923-89b9-0558d0cf5257.html

Pretty obvious that he means that 19 year old prospects are often times much more developed and talented than the younger players. "WITH CANADA'S DEPTH"....what do you think that means?

Also obvious that he is biased in favor of his team's prospect that got usurped by a better one.

 

[zeke]

I think Bruins fans know them. What do you say we ask them?

Like I said, you did so well in the other Bruins polls (Stajan vs Bergeron specifically). I really need to see a repeat performance.



I just really need to see the evidence. Admittedly I am saying the Bruins have a better defence without all the facts. We should get all of it I think.

So you're admitting you don't even know who the boston dmen are, yet you will still unreservedly claim that they are better than the leafs' dmen?

and instead if actually presenting an informed opinion for discussion, you want to rely on hfboards polls of a bunch of teenagers as proof?

 

[Bomber0104]

So you're admitting you don't even know who the boston dmen are, yet you will still unreservedly claim that they are better than the leafs' dmen?

and instead if actually presenting an informed opinion for discussion, you want to rely on hfboards polls of a bunch of teenagers as proof?

Yeah I know. They got Chara, Mcquaid, Seidenberg, Boychuck, Ference, and possibly Hamilton if he can make it as a rookie.

Last time they met the Leafs the score was 8 - 1 for the Bruins

Last season the Leafs didn't win one game.

 

[zeke]

Pretty obvious that he means that 19 year old prospects are often times much more developed and talented than the younger players. "WITH CANADA'S DEPTH"....what do you think that means?

Also obvious that he is biased in favor of his team's prospect that got usurped by a better one.

You should really try to listen and learn more before talking.

what armstrong said there is nothing new or different...it is common knowledge.

 

[zeke]

Yeah I know. They got Chara, Mcquaid, Seidenberg, Boychuck, Ference, and possibly Hamilton if he can make it as a rookie.

Last time they met the Leafs the score was 8 - 1 for the Bruins

So your argument is that no team can compare in any way to teams ahead of them in the standings?

 

[Bomber0104]

You should really try to listen and learn more before talking.

what armstrong said there is nothing new or different...it is common knowledge.

I'll need another quote that explicitly states that 19 year olds get preferential treatment, deservedly or not.

That means you don't leap to some ridiculous conclusion..

 

[Bomber0104]

So your argument is that no team can compare in any way to teams ahead of them in the standings?

My argument is that the Bruins defence kicked the Leafs ass all season head to head.

Even with the Leafs high flying offence, and with the leafs dead last in goals against.

 

[zeke]

I'll need another quote that explicitly states that 19 year olds get preferential treatment, deservedly or not.

That means you don't leap to some ridiculous conclusion..

If you want to wallow in your own ignorance, that's fine by me. I'm certainly not going to waste my time looking up more quotes to spoonfeed you with, especially when you dismiss such a clear quote from an nhl gm like that, and make up strawmen like "preferential treatment" to do it.

if you want to be ignorant, i won't stop you.