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Rick Nash

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Much better game last night.

Net front Presence. Put some nice shots on Toker. Possibly a game saving back check. Stood out more than Kreider.

Liked what I saw...still not satisfied, but he was very good last night.
 
He's still back checking well and taking more shots now, but none are really quality snipe shots that we all know he is capable of. I'm hoping for more from him soon.
 
Thought he was solid, him drawing a penalty and as he is on the ground getting the breakaway pass to MSL was sweet, great save by Tokarski.

 
Pizza said:
Much better game last night.

Net front Presence. Put some nice shots on Toker. Possibly a game saving back check. Stood out more than Kreider.

Liked what I saw...still not satisfied, but he was very good last night.
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I think it comes down to this.

Firstly.

You want a super star on a team that can be a major factor on a shift by shift basis. There are players in hockey like that. Natrually the top 3-5 mega stars. But like, someone like Kovalchuk brought that to NJ when they made it to the finals. MSL got it in him (he got a Art Ross very recently for a reason). Again, there is a few players like this, but are they 10? Not more than 15 anyway.

We traded for Rick Nash to be our player in that mold. At least somewhat. Rich Nash has not been that here in NY besides his first regular season here. Since then a number of factors has played in (concussions, three of them since the trade) and he has been struggling and fighting it some.

Secondly.

There are 30 teams in this league. 27-28 of them want to win. Its "impossible" to get your hands on players. Everyone is tied up to long term deals. With the cap going up as much as it have while no players are available, you have to give out insane contracts to sign the better UFAs (look at what Suter, Weber, Parise and co actually is making right now, its insane numbers). We are paying Nash a lot of money, but the alternatives are to sign like a Clarkson to 5+m per on a multi year deal.

Can we somehow still accept what Nash contributes to us?

Sometimes, I think it has been borderline. But overall, I definitely do not think that Nash contribution is like unacceptable. You cannot have a team with only Columbus Blue Jacket type of players. You need players like Nash on a team. Players that other teams has to adjust to. Players that breaks the pattern. Even when they are not scoring, they have an effect on the ice (that many casual fans obviously don't always notice when its not reflected on the stat-sheet).

Like we have seen in this series, Rich Nash is easily a superior player compared to like a reasonable alternative, Max Pacioretty. I bet that 95% of the Nash haters before this series would have expected MaxPac to come in and have 2x the impact Nash had, but its been the complete opposite on a shift by shift basis.

Not to mention someone like Thomas Vanek. There have been many posts made about buying out Nash and signing Vanek. We all saw him with Tavares on the Island, he would of course get it done here in NY. There is no way I would trade Nash for Vanek. Vaneks stats playing with Tavares or in MTL when MTL plays a high scoring game is better than Nashs, yes and I can't dispute that. But that is what stats tells you, close to nothing.

Jeff Carter is mentioned just a few posts above. He is a PPG player for LAK, wow imagine if we had that. Would score a goal every game for us no doubt. The thing is, we don't have that high scoring environment. Marty St Louis came here and scored 1 goal, a shorthanded one, in 19 games. For a reason. Now he is really hot, as good as any player I've seen in NY in a long time, yeah he got 13 pts in 18 games. Jeff Carter got almost 60% more pts in the POs than MSL, that is what stats tell you. Carter is not even close to the offensive player as MSL is. Carter was horrible for Columbus. Carter contributes much less than Nash on a shift by shift basis, but he is better close in so he would maybe get a few more cheaper goals. I would definitely take the former.

With a Bobby Ryan, we basically get what MTL is getting from Vanek right now. I saw a ton of Ottawa this season and so many nights he was litterary as invisible as Vanek has been for MTL this series.

Look at Gabby here in NY and Columbus vs his play for LA.

And the list just goes on and on. This is what you get. You make your own bed, put these type of players in the right environment and they can score, if you don't, you don't get the stats.

My point is just this, you can't win by mirroring the Columbus Blue Jackets. Unless you get your hands on one of the top 10 players in the league, you don't get what NJ got from Kovalchuk no matter what. What is left is to get good enough players and make them work. I think Nash is a good enough player to keep working with, but without scoring Ds and the high scoring environment like LA has, we won't get the stats from him.

My point is just,
 
Ugh, Gaborik was great for us, He got buried in Torts system simular to McDonagh where he had to stay back more than trying to score. Regardless he had 2 40 goal seasons. That's nothing to scuff at.

Gaborik was also great in columbus with dubinsky until he suffered a broken collar bone. I don't know where you got the impression he was bad.
 
Ola said:
I think it comes down to this.

Firstly.

You want a super star on a team that can be a major factor on a shift by shift basis. There are players in hockey like that. Natrually the top 3-5 mega stars. But like, someone like Kovalchuk brought that to NJ when they made it to the finals. MSL got it in him (he got a Art Ross very recently for a reason). Again, there is a few players like this, but are they 10? Not more than 15 anyway.

We traded for Rick Nash to be our player in that mold. At least somewhat. Rich Nash has not been that here in NY besides his first regular season here. Since then a number of factors has played in (concussions, three of them since the trade) and he has been struggling and fighting it some.

Secondly.

There are 30 teams in this league. 27-28 of them want to win. Its "impossible" to get your hands on players. Everyone is tied up to long term deals. With the cap going up as much as it have while no players are available, you have to give out insane contracts to sign the better UFAs (look at what Suter, Weber, Parise and co actually is making right now, its insane numbers). We are paying Nash a lot of money, but the alternatives are to sign like a Clarkson to 5+m per on a multi year deal.

Can we somehow still accept what Nash contributes to us?

Sometimes, I think it has been borderline. But overall, I definitely do not think that Nash contribution is like unacceptable. You cannot have a team with only Columbus Blue Jacket type of players. You need players like Nash on a team. Players that other teams has to adjust to. Players that breaks the pattern. Even when they are not scoring, they have an effect on the ice (that many casual fans obviously don't always notice when its not reflected on the stat-sheet).

Like we have seen in this series, Rich Nash is easily a superior player compared to like a reasonable alternative, Max Pacioretty. I bet that 95% of the Nash haters before this series would have expected MaxPac to come in and have 2x the impact Nash had, but its been the complete opposite on a shift by shift basis.

Not to mention someone like Thomas Vanek. There have been many posts made about buying out Nash and signing Vanek. We all saw him with Tavares on the Island, he would of course get it done here in NY. There is no way I would trade Nash for Vanek. Vaneks stats playing with Tavares or in MTL when MTL plays a high scoring game is better than Nashs, yes and I can't dispute that. But that is what stats tells you, close to nothing.

Jeff Carter is mentioned just a few posts above. He is a PPG player for LAK, wow imagine if we had that. Would score a goal every game for us no doubt. The thing is, we don't have that high scoring environment. Marty St Louis came here and scored 1 goal, a shorthanded one, in 19 games. For a reason. Now he is really hot, as good as any player I've seen in NY in a long time, yeah he got 13 pts in 18 games. Jeff Carter got almost 60% more pts in the POs than MSL, that is what stats tell you. Carter is not even close to the offensive player as MSL is. Carter was horrible for Columbus. Carter contributes much less than Nash on a shift by shift basis, but he is better close in so he would maybe get a few more cheaper goals. I would definitely take the former.

With a Bobby Ryan, we basically get what MTL is getting from Vanek right now. I saw a ton of Ottawa this season and so many nights he was litterary as invisible as Vanek has been for MTL this series.

Look at Gabby here in NY and Columbus vs his play for LA.

And the list just goes on and on. This is what you get. You make your own bed, put these type of players in the right environment and they can score, if you don't, you don't get the stats.

My point is just this, you can't win by mirroring the Columbus Blue Jackets. Unless you get your hands on one of the top 10 players in the league, you don't get what NJ got from Kovalchuk no matter what. What is left is to get good enough players and make them work. I think Nash is a good enough player to keep working with, but without scoring Ds and the high scoring environment like LA has, we won't get the stats from him.

My point is just,
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Silly excuses again. If we didn't have Nash THE alternative would have been Clarkson to that crazy deal? Says who? Says only you.

Then the rest of your excuse-fest is arguing against a false narrative that is saying to scratch him. The people upset want him to score, not be scratched. 7.8 million. You need to score with that money. You bring up Vanek as a reason we shouldn't be upset Nash can't score, but the Habs are very upset with Vanek's play right now anyway. And you know why? Because the correct response to players not doing what they're capable of doing is to be UPSET. Not bend over backwards to say, we should be happy with the no offensive production we're getting.
 
Nash needs to start scoring somewhat consistently if the Rangers want to win the Cup. If the guy could start scoring even every other team it would be huge for this team.
 
Kel Varnsen said:
Silly excuses again. If we didn't have Nash THE alternative would have been Clarkson to that crazy deal? Says who? Says only you.

Then the rest of your excuse-fest is arguing against a false narrative that is saying to scratch him. The people upset want him to score, not be scratched. 7.8 million. You need to score with that money. You bring up Vanek as a reason we shouldn't be upset Nash can't score, but the Habs are very upset with Vanek's play right now anyway. And you know why? Because the correct response to players not doing what they're capable of doing is to be UPSET. Not bend over backwards to say, we should be happy with the no offensive production we're getting.
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Kel, lets be honest here, a large chunk of people have been way more than a little upset about Nash's play.

And again you like talk about "no" production. Nash got 1 pt less than Zucc, 1 more than Brass, 3 less than our leader MSL, and so forth... Nobody will argue that its good numbers. Its definitely not. Nobody will aruge that he didn't have a honest slump that peaked during the Pittsburgh series, he did.

But come on, lets not pretend that anyone in this thread is talking about people being a little upset with Nash play. He has been trashed tremendously. Your reply would have been warrented if someone nitpicked on some remark on Nash in a GDT.
 
Nash is Nash. Never going to change. Some games and infrequent stretches he looks All-World; other games and longer stretches he is invisible. Has played that way pretty much his whole career save maybe the first three or so. When he is good he is great; unfortunately that only happens occasionally.
 
Pretty strong game from him last night imo. Want to see this level of contribution on a more regular basis, but I think he maybe starting to come out of this terrible funk he's been in.

Would really love to see more of his typical Nash like moves. That would really tell us he's gaining confidence again.

Some solid work around the net last night.
 
BrianBoyle said:
He's had a pretty damn good series so far.
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5 points in 5 games including 3 goals.

He was pretty quiet in the games at home but the games on the road he's been great. I thought he was one of the best players on the ice for us last night. The 2nd Stepan goal was all the result of him forechecking, stripping the puck from the defender, and getting the puck out in front to Kreider.
 
I think Nash has been great this series, showing some will to use his body out there
 
If he now pulls a Toews and wins the Conn Smythe with a great SCF that would be the ultimate troll move :sarcasm:

Of course Lundqvist has the Smythe all but locked up if we win the Cup, so it's a moot point, but a great series with timely goals and suddenly he's "clutch"
 
jniklast said:
If he now pulls a Toews and wins the Conn Smythe with a great SCF that would be the ultimate troll move :sarcasm:

Of course Lundqvist has the Smythe all but locked up if we win the Cup, so it's a moot point, but a great series with timely goals and suddenly he's "clutch"
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Son, you have to learn that that never would happen. It would be way too uncomplicated.

There are two potential scenario here;

1. We loose the first three games and go down 3-0, Nash is the worst player on the planet again. Then he scores 12 pts in 4 straight games and becomes a hero.

2. Nash scores 12 pts in the first 3 games that we win, and is a favorite to win the Conn Smyth. Then he is completely worthless in 4 straight losses and goes out as the worst player on the planet.

;)

And yeah, I recon there is a 3rd alternative too:

3. Our top line plays like its supposed to and designed to play. Takes the toughest match-up, does a decent job. But since its not really capable of opening things up, the 3 players on it will total a pretty low PPG avg for a top line.
 
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