Salary Cap: RFA Marner - Silence until solution to the matter one way or the other

[al secord]

11 x 7 is the best offer.

Now Marner's agent will attempt to get more using that as the base to negotiate from.

That is now the floor.

Woooooooooooooooooooooosh.

You hit two bricks and still type "woooooooooooosh"

 

[Walshy7]

How about?

13.3, 8.5, 8.5?

Year 1: 8.5 base salary + 4.8 B Bonus money. 3 years at 1.6 per year 4.8 signing bonus
Year 2: Aho money
Year 3: Aho money

10.1 AAV

they would never accept that, the last year of the deal would have to be the $13.3M minimum because its the qualifying offer for next contract

 

[18leafsfan18]

11 x 7 is the best offer.

Now Marner's agent will attempt to get more using that as the base to negotiate from.

That is now the floor.

Woooooooooooooooooooooosh.

That is your opinion on what is happening.

Dubas may have said 10 x 7.

Marner camp replies with 12 x 7.

Dubas says 11 x 7 final offer.

Unless you are in the room with them you have no idea what happened or what the floor is or what the ceiling is.

Good sound effects though. You must be so smart.

 

[ToneDog]

How about?

13.3, 8.5, 8.5?

Year 1: 8.5 base salary + 4.8 B Bonus money. 3 years at 1.6 per year 4.8 signing bonus
Year 2: Aho money
Year 3: Aho money

10.1 AAV

10.1 AAV seems high but I think the Marner camp wants the 3rd year set him up for a $12-$15 QO in year 4. Dubas would be painting himself into another corner if he gives in to that. It might take a longer term for Dubas to give that up.

 

[kb]

Okay, fair. Made a factual mistake. Either way there is still Ehlers and Pasternak.

Final ELC years. Even strength points/60

Pastrnak - 2.41
Nylander - 2.44

 

[ULF_55]

No smoke around trade rumours but there were many last summer where Nylander was concerned. I would not wait until Oct to start shopping him although I doubt there is a GM willing to pay his ask and what it will take to acquire him.

As for respect, if $11Mx7 or 8 is not enough, I would suggest that Marner head to Switzerland ASAP.

You kind of wonder if this is the type of attitude a winning team is going to have?

Does the apple fall far from the tree?

 

[Nineteen67]

How about?

13.3, 8.5, 8.5?

Year 1: 8.5 base salary + 4.8 B Bonus money. 3 years at 1.6 per year 4.8 signing bonus
Year 2: Aho money
Year 3: Aho money

10.1 AAV

Because of the QO after the 3rd year. It would have to be the opposite 8.5 8.5 13.5.

 

[yubbers]

'News' outlets have figured out the best way to engage online users is to make then angry. Most share.... Most comments.... Creates more engagement of the article. Which is more clicks more dollars. Just remember that. We can all get emotional about hockey

 

[18leafsfan18]

Ferris and Marner appear to be winning and Leafs and Dubas losing.

From the latest reports of a Dubas offer to Marner of $11 mil for 7/8 years of which Marner has declined it seems to me that Ferris has convinced Dubas that Marner's only 2 comparables are his teammates.

Dubas

Matthews @ $11.634 mil X 5 ..........(RFA signing & Ceiling)
Marner @ $11 mil X 8 ....................(Declined Offer)
Tavares @$ 11 mil X 7 ........................(UFA signing & Floor)

Most GMs

Kucherov @ $9.5 mil X 8 ................(UFA signing & Ceiling) as MVP and League scoring leader
Marner @ ~ $9 mil X 8 ................(RFA) = Marner's last summer $72 mil starting offer.
Aho @ $8.45 mil X 5 ........................(RFA OS signing & Floor) as inflationary offersheet signing

Generally understood and accepted principles are UFAs get more $$ due to market laws of supply and demand setting price, while RFAs get less because they're under cost controllable team years and their value is set via league wide comparables for similar positions played and production on recent signings.

Other unsigned RFAs like Point, Rantanen etc are likely going to fall between the Kucherov ----- & ------ Aho model for Ceiling and Floor. IMO

Or....

Panarin 11.64 x 8

Marner 11 x 8

Seguin 9.85 x 8
Stone 9.5 x 8
Benn 9.5 x 8

See when you purposely leave out context you can make anything true.

 

[ULF_55]

10.1 AAV seems high but I think the Marner camp wants the 3rd year set him up for a $12-$15 QO in year 4. Dubas would be painting himself into another corner if he gives in to that. It might take a longer term for Dubas to give that up.

Yep, I know the strategy.

Get highest in the 3rd. year.

I'd say screw that, earn your next deal here or elsewhere.

 

[Bomber0104]

That is your opinion on what is happening.

Dubas may have said 10 x 7.

Marner camp replies with 12 x 7.

Dubas says 11 x 7 final offer.

Unless you are in the room with them you have no idea what happened or what the floor is or what the ceiling is.

Good sound effects though. You must be so smart.

I'm not in the room with them but fortunately we have common sense available (some of us anyway) and that would dictate that the reason Marner turned down the 11 x 7 offer is because they think they can do even better....

Hence that's the base they're negotiating with Dubas from.

If you can't understand that, God help you.

 

[ToneDog]

You kind of wonder if this is the type of attitude a winning team is going to have?

Does the apple fall far from the tree?

Mitch is losing a lot of the street credit he has built (as I said he would the longer this drags out). I think they are holding firm on a 3 year deal but you are right and hence why I would entertain moving one or both of Willie and Mitch and change the dynamics of the club. Laine and Connor could be a good starting point. Laine is a pure 40-50 goal sniper and Connor adds some sandpaper along with his 30-40 goals.

 

[Nineteen67]

Then you do this all over again in 3 years, where Marner has all the leverage (Can take the 12m x 1 year and walk).

Or - The Leafs can get him signed to a long term deal in the summer and if they don’t think it’s going well at that point they could trade him at the draft.

 

[ULF_55]

Because of the QO after the 3rd year. It would have to be the opposite 8.5 8.5 13.5.

Maybe some team will give him that in November?

 

[18leafsfan18]

I'm not in the room with them but fortunately we have common sense available (some of us anyway) and that would dictate that the reason Marner turned down the 11 x 7 offer is because they think they can do even better....

Hence that's the base they're negotiating with Dubas from.

I understand you have an opinion and you like to state it as a fact, but you are wrong.

 

[Hockey Crazy]

I don't thing Dubas can or will go higher than an AAV of 11. Hence why I think he will give in to Marner's request for a shorter term but for a lower AAV (say an overpay in the 8.5-10 neighbourhood).

The rumor is 3x8.75, 6x10.5 and 7x11 were on the table. That should basically be an ultimatum on october 1st.

They're rich but I'll deal with them. He better perform in the playoffs.

 

[Bomber0104]

I understand you have an opinion and you like to state it as a fact, but you are wrong.

So in your view Marner's camp rejected an 11 x 7 year deal because they want a WORSE deal?

Do I have that correct?

 

[18leafsfan18]

Or - The Leafs can get him signed to a long term deal in the summer and if they don’t think it’s going well at that point they could trade him at the draft.

Why would it go any smoother in 3 years then it has this time ?

 

[ULF_55]

I'm not in the room with them but fortunately we have common sense available (some of us anyway) and that would dictate that the reason Marner turned down the 11 x 7 offer is because they think they can do even better....

Hence that's the base they're negotiating with Dubas from.

If you can't understand that, God help you.

marner doesn't want a long term deal.

So the floor on a long term deal is 11, he wants 3 years.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I'm not in the room with them but fortunately we have common sense available (some of us anyway) and that would dictate that the reason Marner turned down the 11 x 7 offer is because they think they can do even better....

Hence that's the base they're negotiating with Dubas from.

If you can't understand that, God help you.

If that's the base he's negotiating from, he's not getting a contract. At least not from the Leafs.

 

[Bomber0104]

If that's the base he's negotiating from, he's not getting a contract. At least not from the Leafs.

We'll see

 

[ToneDog]

Or....

Panarin 11.64 x 8

Marner 11 x 8

Seguin 9.85 x 8
Stone 9.5 x 8
Benn 9.5 x 8

See when you purposely leave out context you can make anything true.

I do not think Marner accepts 11x8. He probably accepts 11x5 or 6 which is nuts for the Leafs.

 

[kb]

Yep, I know the strategy.

Get highest in the 3rd. year.

I'd say screw that, earn your next deal here or elsewhere.

If he wants a record breaking bridge, he will have to give up on the QO. Or take less with a higher QO.

 

[Walshy7]

I'm not in the room with them but fortunately we have common sense available (some of us anyway) and that would dictate that the reason Marner turned down the 11 x 7 offer is because they think they can do even better....

Hence that's the base they're negotiating with Dubas from.

If you can't understand that, God help you.

you keep thinking you are right here? so strange. When he doesn't get higher how does you narrative here work?.

Here is an example
Dubas "$11m x 7"
marner: "$14x7?" NO
marner: $13x7?" No
marner: $12.9x7" no

you understand that he can say $11x7 is as high as he is willing to go and wont budge right? or you believe Dubas is now obliged to only offer up from there?

 

[Nineteen67]

This really is a tale of two polar opposite negotiation strategies. Externally, Dubas has spoken coolly and respectfully about Marner and his camp through and through; internally, if we are to believe insider reports, he’s concretely outlined the team’s priorities, presented a myriad of more-than-fair options for Marner to consider, and worked constructively to find something that works for both sides.

Meanwhile, Ferris has been overtly inflammatory and disparaging toward Dubas for months, talking about how insulting his tactics/offers have been. Internally, it appears that the camp has made no effort to find common ground or make certain concessions the way any sane individual would. It seems spiteful and tactless.

Obviously, some or all of what we’ve heard could be untrue, but if there’s any validity to these rumours it seems like the perfect example of bad faith negotiation on the end of the agent. It seems shockingly immature and unprofessional. If what we know is true of the offers that have been discussed/tables and the things that have been said, I place no blame on Dubas whatsoever and think that Ferris should be run out of the league. For someone working at this level, his approach has been downright pathetic.

That’s not remotely negotiating in bad faith.