Salary Cap: RFA Marner - Silence until solution to the matter one way or the other

[Nineteen67]

Whatever. Lack of professionalism then. Semantics. If you can't see that, you have no clue.

Oh btw - Negotiating in bad faith means you have a hidden agenda and often an unfair advantage over the agreement. It can also mean that you intend to do business deceptively and pretend otherwise

It’s not semantics at all.

Deceptively is key word. Let’s say Marner and the Leafs agreed in principle on a 11 million AAV. In order to make that work Dubas had to make a trade and traded Ceci freeing up another 4.5 million in cap space. Once this happens, Marner says, you have enough space now,I want the Matthews deal...that’s bad faith negotiating.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

He’s a great young player.
6 years at 10.5 or lower is (almost) fair.
It would be nice to get him at a steal but like nylander once again it is a bitter fight just to get them to sign something that is barely in the realm of rational.
Looking forward to hearing the final number. Can’t wait to have this core locked up!

 

[glue]

3 years and Mitch will be out of TO for his next contract. Maybe that's what he wants.

Yeah if its a 3 year deal, then I see a low probability of him sticking around long term. He'll want another absurd contract after that and I can't see the Leafs management team wanting to go through that again.

 

[Nineteen67]

Now Friedman saying the AAV on a 6 year deal will be lower than 11.

I wonder if the 6x10.5 thing LeBrun mentioned is an actual possibility

That would be a terrific deal. Mitch, sign it and get into camp

 

[Walshy7]

That would be a 600k overpay but at this point, it at least gives the Leafs a chance to rebuild some trade value. As long as it is frontloaded so it is easy to dump his butt on a budget team like Ottawa if it makes the team better. Like Nylander, overpayment = no trade security/don't expect to be here if we get an offer that contributes to the Leafs' success more than you do.

Nylander is $400/500K overpaid so, extrapolating Marner being $600K overpaid isn't horrible. Neither would ever kill our team so no need to build trade values etc

 

[ShaneFalco]

This I know for sure - when Marner signs the forum will unavailable for some time

 

[desperateblue]

I wonder how long before teams stop drafting ferris clients altogether.
I’d personally prefer a player with slightly less talent that isn’t out to lunch on salary expectations.
Pasta should be the comparison for Marner not Matthews

 

[ACC1224]

Yeah if its a 3 year deal, then I see a low probability of him sticking around long term. He'll want another absurd contract after that and I can't see the Leafs management team wanting to go through that again.

No reason to think that. A lot can happen in 3 years and both sides will have leanred lessons from this.

 

[Advanced stats]

That would be a 600k overpay but at this point, it at least gives the Leafs a chance to rebuild some trade value

Lol Marner's not getting traded, especially if he signs a 6 year deal.

6 x 10.5 would look like a steal for Toronto in 3 years.

 

[Hockey Crazy]

Lol Marner's not getting traded, especially if he signs a 6 year deal.

6 x 10.5 would look like a steal for Toronto in 3 years.

I don't know about a steal but it would be fine.

 

[Matthews34]

Unless Marner signs at fair market value I never wan to see him in a Leafs jersey again. Even he does I'll never look at him the same way.

 

[gabeliscious]

6 years at $10.5 is something i think most of us could live with. it isnt a discount, thats for sure but at least we would have the 6th year. at the end of the day, if he is putting up 90+ points, $10.5 isnt that bad. if he drops back to 60 points it will be a long 6 years for Paul.

 

[ACC1224]

Unless Marner signs at fair market value I never wan to see him in a Leafs jersey again. Even he does I'll never look at him the same way.

Shouldn't you be upset at Dubas if what you perceive as unfair happens?

 

[FrozenJagrt]

Unless Marner signs at fair market value I never wan to see him in a Leafs jersey again. Even he does I'll never look at him the same way.

You should try to view things without emotion. Don't want to look like that small group of Islanders fans.

Once the deal is signed, that's it. Done. Move on.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Odd priorities. I'd like to win a cup, personally.

Me too, without getting bent over.

 

[glue]

No reason to think that. A lot can happen in 3 years and both sides will have leanred lessons from this.

Actually the current situation gives you all the reason to think that. But certainly you're right that a lot can change in 3 years and I honestly hope you're right cause I love Mitch and it'll be sad if he ever leaves. That said, in a hard cap era where teams have to make tough decisions if you have a player demanding things not aligned with other players of a similar ilk across the league, it puts the team in a direct disadvantage. You could argue Dubas overpaid Matthews and helped create this situation, it still doesn't justify the ask of the Marner camp being as absurd as it is (Pretty much confirmed that the guy rejected a 11 x 7 years contract making him the highest paid RFA winger of all time) because he needs to be paid as much as Matthews.

 

[BigBlu]

Lies? Threats, as you call them, are a basic part of negotiating.
So when everyone says the Leafs should offer one deal and tell him if he doesn’t accept then he sits - would that be a threat and bad faith?

That would be too honest and too kind. Personally, I'd be reducing the offer daily after training camp starts.

 

[desperateblue]

You should try to view things without emotion. Don't want to look like that small group of Islanders fans.

Once the deal is signed, that's it. Done. Move on.

This isn’t ny
No where else in Canada or the world maybe will over analyze a players contract and output like it will here.
There’s no possible way the contract or how it gets negotiated will he forgotten by the fans.
Holding a fan base hostage is rough but when it’s a home town kid that knows better it seems even worse.
These young players are getting bad advice from their agents. More money is always great but with crazy salary comes crazy expectations and we aren’t that far removed from Marner being played on the fourth line.
No matter what he gets now it will be an uphill battle proving his worth imo

 

[pspot]

3 x 10.5 my updated guess

 

[gabeliscious]

Unless Marner signs at fair market value I never wan to see him in a Leafs jersey again. Even he does I'll never look at him the same way.

you are obviously entitled to your opinion but i feel like that is a bit harsh. as fans we often do not think about the business side of the sport. if this was a regular job and a regular type of negotiation would you feel the same way?

i am also frustrated with the situation and would definitely prefer him to take a team friendly 8 year deal but he has the right to try to negotiate for what he thinks he is worth. For me personally, i feel like the frustration is over his seemingly lack of willingness to compromise in order to get a deal done. the best deal will be one where the leafs give up some concessions and marner gives up some concessions and meet in the middle.

the rumour of a 6 year deal under $11 million seems like it is starting to go down that path. assuming progress is made there, i think marner is starting to come back to reality. at the end of the day, if the leafs give him $9.5 or $10.5 that isnt the biggest issue, nor is if he signs for 6 years or 8 years. a 6 year deal is a very long time.

i guess going back to my original point, i wouldnt hold it against the kid. business is business and hockey is hockey.

 

[Notsince67]

He turned down the term, and I fully agree with that strategy because it’s worth the risk of waiting to see what the cap is after the new CBA.

That leaves them with a bridge as the only option. A 15 million 3rd year is ridiculous.

Not much more than a nmc on Matthews 4th. Kind of straps the team to either offer up a huge contract before the 4th year is done or trade him so they dont face the prospect of losing him.

 

[Walshy7]

You should try to view things without emotion. Don't want to look like that small group of Islanders fans.

Once the deal is signed, that's it. Done. Move on.

Small group of islander fans? How many is a small group of an already small group?

 

[BayStreetBully]

Im thinking about winning. You are thinking about giving people object lessons that have no bearing on the team. The differences we are talking about amounts to a plug

Why should Leafs cave? Let Marner cave so he can actually get paid and Leafs get his services back and win. Doesn’t he even want to get paid anything this year? He doesn’t actually think he has the leverage, does he? Only reason it seems that way is because Dubas keeps giving to him.

 

[Heisen]

Why? You can like the player but hate their camp's tactics

No, who you associate with, work with, hire, etc.. it's all a reflection on you as a person.

Anyone who doesn't shout and boo at Marner now, I seriously have to think they too, are not a good person.

 

[biotk]

Its gonna be super awkward for all the ppl who have ripped Marner this past summer when he signs in the next couple days.

Why? The Marner camp has been disgusting throughout, and (almost) everyone sees them for what they are now. Unlike with Nylander, the Leafs' negotiated aggressively and had great offers for Marner in June. That is why when the Leafs finally leaked those offers the public backlash might have been enough to shake the Marner camp.

Regardless this is a player who (or whose camp):
Leaked to the media throughout
Shit talked Matthews contract and whined about the captaincy.
Went on an offersheet tour around July 1 - despite having been offered 11x7
Continued to solicit offersheets recently

Fans will go back to cheering for Marner, but I suspect that many will never view him the same way they used to.