Return for Matthews in a trade

[geo25]

I’ll be honest, I don’t think hockey GMs have that kind of foresight and I get why. No one’s job is secure for life.

You have a team that’s either entering or already in your cup window. Auston Matthews a 60-goal scoring 1C in his prime says I’ll come to your team as a UFA but pay me $13+ mill, you wouldn’t sign him on the spot and make the money work? I think there’s plenty of teams that would try to sign him.

We did the same thing with Tavares as well.

Obviously, there are things the Leafs can offer Matthews that no other team can but it depends on how he values those things.

His body language & attitude all scream....I want outta here.....

 

[trellaine201]

Considering he has only 1 year left, and probably won't sign with the team he's traded to, we would probably only get a couple 1st round picks and some either washed,up or rookie talent. 8t eould hav3 to be a team that thinks it can win the cup next year. If he had 3 years left we could prob get the moon.

Agreed. Might as well keep him and roll the dice.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I've come to the conclusion he won't be traded. Bell & Rogers (the real GMs of the team) love having his star-power.

 

[Boxscore]

I thought we were going to see perhaps the first generational Leafs player when Matthews started his career with the Leafs.

Somewhere along the journey it got derailed, the million dollar question is it marner.

I don't think we can blame Marner for Matthews inconsistency and puzzling stagnation. To me, it all began once Matthews started acting like a celebrity instead of a hockey player. Overnight he went from a clean-shaven, high-tempo hockey player to a model with his hipster mustache, silly Disney apparel, high fashion outfits, tat sleeves, and following Bieber around like a roadie.

Of course that coincided with the Toronto Maple Leafs completely cowering to him, treating him like royalty, giving him a blank check, and agreeing to his short term demands. To this day, it still seems like everyone in the city of Toronto -- or connected to the organization -- is terrified to even question him, demand more, or call him out on a career's worth of subpar playoff performances.

If you look at his body language on the ice, he's lumbering and lethargic at times, lacks the same intensity that he showed as a rookie, and has zero killer instinct. He appears to just want to go out there, get open space and fire bullets. That's great and all during the regular season but it doesn't fly in the playoffs. I think that's all on him and has nothing to do with Marner.

I think we'll all see where Matthews priorities lie when it's time to sign his next deal. If he isn't willing to take a lot less so the Leafs can ice an adequate team around him, then his main priority is his contract and not winning a Cup.

 

[Superstar]

I don't think we can blame Marner for Matthews inconsistency and puzzling stagnation. To me, it all began once Matthews started acting like a celebrity instead of a hockey player. Overnight he went from a clean-shaven, high-tempo hockey player to a model with his hipster mustache, silly Disney apparel, high fashion outfits, tat sleeves, and following Bieber around like a roadie.

Of course that coincided with the Toronto Maple Leafs completely cowering to him, treating him like royalty, giving him a blank check, and agreeing to his short term demands. To this day, it still seems like everyone in the city of Toronto -- or connected to the organization -- is terrified to even question him, demand more, or call him out on a career's worth of subpar playoff performances.

If you look at his body language on the ice, he's lumbering and lethargic at times, lacks the same intensity that he showed as a rookie, and has zero killer instinct. He appears to just want to go out there, get open space and fire bullets. That's great and all during the regular season but it doesn't fly in the playoffs. I think that's all on him and has nothing to do with Marner.

I think we'll all see where Matthews priorities lie when it's time to sign his next deal. If he isn't willing to take a lot less so the Leafs can ice an adequate team around him, then his main priority is his contract and not winning a Cup.

It all went down hill when his AAV had to be $11.634 on that 5 year deal...how narcissistic is that? I hope his next contract with the Leafs doesn't have a figure like that...a clean $13 million is fine.

 

[Boxscore]

It all went down hill when his AAV had to be $11.634 on that 5 year deal...how narcissistic is that? I hope his next contract with the Leafs doesn't have a figure like that...a clean $13 million is fine.

Here's the thing though -- did the Leafs even negotiate? It never seemed like it. It always seemed like after giving Tavares the world, losing a game of chicken with Nylander, and caving on Marner... they just decided to not rock the boat with Matthews and hand him the checkbook.

As for the OPs ask, re: a trade return for Matthews... I want depth, character, and some jam. Forget about regular season razzle dazzle, one superstar (even two like the titans in Edmonton) can't win a Cup on their own. It takes depth, character, and foot soldiers who hate losing.

I'll take the lazy, cliche route for shiggles, and propose the the type of return I'd want from a club like Arizona...

Headlined by Logan Cooley -- a potential top like C with 85-90 point upside down the line. A young, top-4, minute munching defenseman in Janis Moser. And a grimy, nasty gamer who isn't afraid to muck it up in Lawson Crouse. If the Leafs can add a blue chip talent like Cooley plus those other valuable pieces, I'd put Matthews on a plane.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Here's the thing though -- did the Leafs even negotiate? It never seemed like it. It always seemed like after giving Tavares the world, losing a game of chicken with Nylander, and caving on Marner... they just decided to not rock the boat with Matthews and hand him the checkbook.

They who exactly? Dubas? Shanahan? The board? A combination? This week's events makes me question how all these deals were negotiated.

 

[Superstar]

Here's the thing though -- did the Leafs even negotiate? It never seemed like it. It always seemed like after giving Tavares the world, losing a game of chicken with Nylander, and caving on Marner... they just decided to not rock the boat with Matthews and hand him the checkbook.

I don't think Dubas had the balls to push back on the Matthews contract, it was atrocious...I think Matthews' agent put that contract together and Dubas just caved...Matthews got everything...Dubas did try to do some pushback on Marner's contract after...I think he leaked that Marner refused a 7 year $70 million offer when negotiations stalled...Marner got some heat after from the media and fans, but still got more than what was offered.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I don't think we can blame Marner for Matthews inconsistency and puzzling stagnation. To me, it all began once Matthews started acting like a celebrity instead of a hockey player. Overnight he went from a clean-shaven, high-tempo hockey player to a model with his hipster mustache, silly Disney apparel, high fashion outfits, tat sleeves, and following Bieber around like a roadie.

Of course that coincided with the Toronto Maple Leafs completely cowering to him, treating him like royalty, giving him a blank check, and agreeing to his short term demands. To this day, it still seems like everyone in the city of Toronto -- or connected to the organization -- is terrified to even question him, demand more, or call him out on a career's worth of subpar playoff performances.

If you look at his body language on the ice, he's lumbering and lethargic at times, lacks the same intensity that he showed as a rookie, and has zero killer instinct. He appears to just want to go out there, get open space and fire bullets. That's great and all during the regular season but it doesn't fly in the playoffs. I think that's all on him and has nothing to do with Marner.

I think we'll all see where Matthews priorities lie when it's time to sign his next deal. If he isn't willing to take a lot less so the Leafs can ice an adequate team around him, then his main priority is his contract and not winning a Cup.

Are we watching the same game? That’s the one thing he can’t seem to do anymore, show me the last time he fired some bullets. He’s not a threat from distance since 2021. Most of his goals this year were in tight cleaning up greasy scrambles.

His all around game is the best it’s been, he lost his best-in-the-world star power skill.

Honestly I wish Matthews was the lazy floating sniper you guys pretend he is, at least the PP doesn’t go 0-for-too many with that guy.

 

[Boxscore]

They who exactly? Dubas? Shanahan? The board? A combination? This week's events makes me question how all these deals were negotiated.

Good question. My guess -- pure speculation -- Dubas and Shanny were both in concert about not wanting to ruffle any feathers with Matthews and sold the board on wrapping up this deal quick and easy.

They made their bed with the Tavares UFA signing. At the time they paid him the second highest cap hit in the NHL behind McDavid. Once you do that, you can't ask your young, budding core to do you a solid and take less. They had no leverage with Matthews. Now they do, but are they strong enough to use it?

 

[authentic]

Are we watching the same game? That’s the one thing he can’t seem to do anymore, show me the last time he fired some bullets. He’s not a threat from distance since 2021. Most of his goals this year were in tight cleaning up greasy scrambles.

His all around game is the best it’s been, he lost his best-in-the-world star power skill.

Honestly I wish Matthews was the lazy floating sniper you guys pretend he is, at least the PP doesn’t go 0-for-too many with that guy.

Also is it any wonder that when you're playing hurt you lose intensity?

Yet he still blocks a ton of shots, hits, tons of takeaways, wins a lot of faceoffs, almost never takes penalties. But he doesn't buzz around like MacKinnon or score 2 points per game while getting outscored on the ice at ES like McDavid so trade him immediately for a 2nd liner and a draft pick

 

[Martin Skoula]

Also is it any wonder that when you're playing hurt you lose intensity?

Yet he still blocks a ton of shots, hits, tons of takeaways, wins a lot of faceoffs, almost never takes penalties. But he doesn't buzz around like MacKinnon or score 2 points per game while getting outscored on the ice at ES like McDavid so trade him immediately for a 2nd liner and a draft pick

The injury thing isn’t an excuse to overpay him forever either, if it’s serious enough to cause this much of a drop off in his shot it’s a good reason to move on if it can’t be reliably fixed. At least if it was just laziness it’s fixable with the right people in charge.

 

[Americanadian]

CJ was on first up this morning and basically said the return in a Matthews trade won’t be that strong if the trading team doesn’t have assurances that he will sign.

 

[Budz]

CJ was on first up this morning and basically said the return in a Matthews trade won’t be that strong if the trading team doesn’t have assurances that he will sign.

I call total BS, 1 year of AM @50% to a contender in the offseason when you can shape and mold cap structure - it would be a haul.

It also beats getting nothing. You cannot chance this.

 

[Americanadian]

I call total BS, 1 year of AM @50% to a contender in the offseason when you can shape and mold cap structure - it would be a haul.

It also beats getting nothing. You cannot chance this.

Depends what your definition if a haul is.

I am in agreement that something is better than nothing.

 

[Trapper]

Matthews will either sign a new deal or walk for nothing.
Leafs don't do things in the middle.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I've come to the conclusion he won't be traded. Bell & Rogers (the real GMs of the team) love having his star-power.

This is highly likely. Another "own rental".

I don't think we can blame Marner for Matthews inconsistency and puzzling stagnation. To me, it all began once Matthews started acting like a celebrity instead of a hockey player. Overnight he went from a clean-shaven, high-tempo hockey player to a model with his hipster mustache, silly Disney apparel, high fashion outfits, tat sleeves, and following Bieber around like a roadie.

Of course that coincided with the Toronto Maple Leafs completely cowering to him, treating him like royalty, giving him a blank check, and agreeing to his short term demands. To this day, it still seems like everyone in the city of Toronto -- or connected to the organization -- is terrified to even question him, demand more, or call him out on a career's worth of subpar playoff performances.

If you look at his body language on the ice, he's lumbering and lethargic at times, lacks the same intensity that he showed as a rookie, and has zero killer instinct. He appears to just want to go out there, get open space and fire bullets. That's great and all during the regular season but it doesn't fly in the playoffs. I think that's all on him and has nothing to do with Marner.

I think we'll all see where Matthews priorities lie when it's time to sign his next deal. If he isn't willing to take a lot less so the Leafs can ice an adequate team around him, then his main priority is his contract and not winning a Cup.

Great post and 100% accurate.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

12.5M AAV for 8 years OR 5 good pieces including 3 1st rounders plus a top 2 D .. take your pick .. my guess is da 8 year deal

 

[nuck]

ve been

CJ was on first up this morning and basically said the return in a Matthews trade won’t be that strong if the trading team doesn’t have assurances that he will sign.

CJ pulls a lot of stuff out of his butt so I take anything he says with a grain of salt. Mind you there is a ton of "sky is falling" reporting everywhere right now because thats what's grabbing the looks. But this is just common sense. Once there is a new GM who can talk to the Matthews side things will be a lot clearer. A five year deal would work for me, but not at $14M because at his age the short term helps the player more than the club and that just makes next years cap problems a lot worse.

What we need is for AM's side to give a number/range and then for the Leafs to be able to explore a move if the two are too far apart. If Matthews agent is determined to be obstructive they can simply throw out an inflated take it or leave it number and then run out his deal as a Leaf and try to get into a bidding war as a UFA. This way he doesn't have to uproot and move to another city without getting the opportunity to be wined and dined by every team in the league before taking his talents to wherever his South Beach is. It really is screwing the club hard but its his right and it might happen. The other side of a trade scenario is he at least least agrees to talk to the destination club so they can make a pitch and get a feel for if they have a legit chance of keeping him. A better chance of getting some real value for him and a theoretical shot for the Leafs to resign him again next summer themselves. After all, if he is charging the club full retail anyways then why not bid with the rest

Or he wants to be a Leaf and comes out with a number that isn't too stupid so he gets re-signed and the world goes on. There isn't much point in worrying until a new GM is in place. If he tells that guy don't talk to me until 11:59 then that is meaningful.

 

[therealkoho]

Bottom line he won’t be as good, no player not one in the entire history of the NHL scored more goals in his 2nd 8 years than he did in his 1st. Can’t argue with that history.

HEY! Hey there Mister!

This is Matthews we're talking here, he is an actual marvel superhero come to life who's playing in the B&W, his goal production is only going up.

He is, after all is said and done."MATTHEWS!"

 

[therealkoho]

You realize the majority of these points came in the 7-2 game?

Why not take away that game?

Good for the big 5, they are paid nearly 50 million, I'd expect a bit of production.

Btw where were they in Florida?

Same place the Canes have currently gone.

 

[nuck]

They who exactly? Dubas? Shanahan? The board? A combination? This week's events makes me question how all these deals were negotiated.

Yeah it wasn't Dubas that negotiated those those deals he's just the fall guy

 

[daethfromabove1979]

Here's the thing though -- did the Leafs even negotiate? It never seemed like it. It always seemed like after giving Tavares the world, losing a game of chicken with Nylander, and caving on Marner... they just decided to not rock the boat with Matthews and hand him the checkbook.

I don't think Dubas had the balls to push back on the Matthews contract, it was atrocious...I think Matthews' agent put that contract together and Dubas just caved...Matthews got everything...Dubas did try to do some pushback on Marner's contract after...I think he leaked that Marner refused a 7 year $70 million offer when negotiations stalled...Marner got some heat after from the media and fans, but still got more than what was offered.

How was Dubas supposed to negotiate with Matthews and Marner when he gave 11M to Tavares? They are both way better than Tavares and deserved more money. They definitely overpaid for Matthews and Marner but they didn't really have a choice.

 

[therealkoho]

Here's the thing though -- did the Leafs even negotiate? It never seemed like it. It always seemed like after giving Tavares the world, losing a game of chicken with Nylander, and caving on Marner... they just decided to not rock the boat with Matthews and hand him the checkbook.

As for the OPs ask, re: a trade return for Matthews... I want depth, character, and some jam. Forget about regular season razzle dazzle, one superstar (even two like the titans in Edmonton) can't win a Cup on their own. It takes depth, character, and foot soldiers who hate losing.

I'll take the lazy, cliche route for shiggles, and propose the the type of return I'd want from a club like Arizona...

Headlined by Logan Cooley -- a potential top like C with 85-90 point upside down the line. A young, top-4, minute munching defenseman in Janis Moser. And a grimy, nasty gamer who isn't afraid to muck it up in Lawson Crouse. If the Leafs can add a blue chip talent like Cooley plus those other valuable pieces, I'd put Matthews on a plane.

Matthews contract was signed early Feb

Marner signed the following September

Don't know if there was any truth to it, but I heard there was supposedly some loose plan between the two M's to negotiate in tandem and ask 9m x 7 yrs, but as we all know Matthews said me first, Frig the rest of you.

MM negotiations became contentious because of how the Leafs viewed Matthews and treated him vs how they had treated Mitch and allowed Babcock to embarrass him.

 

[Peace Frog]

If Matthews is to be traded, what about to Arizona for Cooley, Keller and the 1st? Cooley is very likely not going to sign with the Yotes and Keller has requested a trade.