OT: Relationship Advice Thread

SnowblindNYR

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Nov 16, 2011
55,084
34,502
Brooklyn, NY
Whether he moves in with her or bangs her once, there's risk involved. The world is off its axis...women can claim harassment for looking at them cross-eyed. Instead of pissing in the company pool & exposing himself to tons of consequences, why not take his chances with the plethora of local NYC women who are willing & available. (caveat, I'm well aware that he's been down on his dating luck....doesn't change my stance here...pornhub is a better option).

The thing is, at the risk of oversharing, it's not being down on my dating luck. It's not a matter of me having a dry spell. It's me never being on my dating luck in my life. So it's not as easy to just take my chances with the plethora of local NYC women, if I could do that I'd not even be in this thread. f***, I'd probably have a life and wouldn't post here as often. It's a learning experience for me. If I get fired for harassment or something, whatever I'm not super fond of this job anyway.
 

Boris Zubov

No relation to Sergei, Joe
May 6, 2016
19,187
26,693
Back on the east coast
The thing is, at the risk of oversharing, it's not being down on my dating luck. It's not a matter of me having a dry spell. It's me never being on my dating luck in my life. So it's not as easy to just take my chances with the plethora of local NYC women, if I could do that I'd not even be in this thread. f***, I'd probably have a life and wouldn't post here as often. It's a learning experience for me. If I get fired for harassment or something, whatever I'm not super fond of this job anyway.
You say that now, but if you get canned, how do you explain that to your next employer?

I know you're not the slickest dude with women, I have many posts in this thread trying to give you advice when you were trying to speed date, etc. Regardless, to @NCRanger 's point, your risk/reward factor here doesn't compute. I know you need a slump-buster in a big way. We've ALL been there, I assure you. Let's say your chances of success are 50%, which is being generous...not because of your prowess, but because women are so f***ing unpredictable, the reward isn't worth the investment. Not in today's corporate climate.

If this was the 90s or even earlier, I'd be all over this. Personally I worked for a major record label in the 90s headquartered in TImes Square. I was in my mid 20s & extremely single. I hooked up with about 15 women in the corporation, over a 5+ year span....several in my office during work hours. Not trying to brag, just making a point that I'm no monk & that I'm all for hooking up.....BUT the world has changed big time from then however.

Before I moved back east, I saw a coworker in Vegas have to resign from a job because he & some whore were playing harmless grab ass with each other before she changed her mind & decided he was harassing her. I was present & witnessed most of it & they were both slapping each others' asses pretty harmlessly. But something rubbed her the wrong way, so she reported it & it was game over...instantly. Was it fair, hell no. Did he get screwed, absolutely. Did he have any recourse...not a f***ing chance in today's work climate.

To me, this is not something I'd risk for a low percentage reward. Desperation makes us do things that hindsight doesn't shine in the kindest light. Do yourself a favor & rethink this.
 
Last edited:

Boris Zubov

No relation to Sergei, Joe
May 6, 2016
19,187
26,693
Back on the east coast
What if the girl is Emily Kaplan
Give her the Crocodile Dundee check to see if she's packing a sausage.
MenacingSomberBird-size_restricted.gif
 
Last edited:

Kocur26

Limousine Ridin’
Jul 30, 2021
2,772
3,002
Sorry, but have you paid attention lately to the news...me too, etc? People are f***ing crazy these days. You have NO IDEA who you're working with or interacting with on a daily basis....especially if you work with them remotely. You can't trust anyone to claim to be who they say they are in today's world, that's just the sad reality of the times we live.
This 100%

It’s an aggressive take but a smart one .

You could get down there and she looks like Kamala .
 

SnowblindNYR

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Nov 16, 2011
55,084
34,502
Brooklyn, NY
FWIW, we've both violated a few of these rules already. This is such f***ing nonsense. Imagine thinking that this is progress.


"Staring" is sexual harassment. I guess I've probably been guilty of sexual harassment quite a bit in my career. :rolleyes:
 
  • Like
Reactions: EdJovanovski

HFsNumber1Heel

FKA Roo Returns...Still A Contrarian Apparently
Mar 4, 2010
9,678
5,249
Westchester, NY
So to keep this thread going I'm going to talk in very general terms to my current situation.

The point is to ask/relate for people with past experiences and also help younger folks be aware of certain situations.

I have a lady with some interest in me. She wants to meet up later this month. She doesn't care when. She's very nice and attractive (I'm not blown away by her but she's pretty). While I do think she's pleasant and there are generally no issues, I just don't feel that crazy spark. We also have very different paths we're planning on going (both of us want to leave NY in the next 1-2 years but to very different places).

Another issue is she physically reminds me of a more well-rounded and motivated version of an ex-g/f.

I'm very torn, because I don't want to be a jerk and ultimately hurt her, but I'm not ready for an all out serious thing. It's not fair to limit it to just hookup buddies unless that's all she wants, but I really have no time for a serious thing right now.

I'm still in slight mourning over the dating thing from last summer, my job has become incredibly toxic and I would like to begin job searching before the month is over, and getting involved with someone is always going to take up time and cut into the wallet.

I met a lady in January and although got her number, never did anything with it (that was more about red flags this is more about everything above).

So the point is yeah you gotta get out there and I'm sure meeting up once is ok, but anything regularly I'm not looking for.
 

SnowblindNYR

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Nov 16, 2011
55,084
34,502
Brooklyn, NY
So to keep this thread going I'm going to talk in very general terms to my current situation.

The point is to ask/relate for people with past experiences and also help younger folks be aware of certain situations.

I have a lady with some interest in me. She wants to meet up later this month. She doesn't care when. She's very nice and attractive (I'm not blown away by her but she's pretty). While I do think she's pleasant and there are generally no issues, I just don't feel that crazy spark. We also have very different paths we're planning on going (both of us want to leave NY in the next 1-2 years but to very different places).

Another issue is she physically reminds me of a more well-rounded and motivated version of an ex-g/f.

I'm very torn, because I don't want to be a jerk and ultimately hurt her, but I'm not ready for an all out serious thing. It's not fair to limit it to just hookup buddies unless that's all she wants, but I really have no time for a serious thing right now.

I'm still in slight mourning over the dating thing from last summer, my job has become incredibly toxic and I would like to begin job searching before the month is over, and getting involved with someone is always going to take up time and cut into the wallet.

I met a lady in January and although got her number, never did anything with it (that was more about red flags this is more about everything above).

So the point is yeah you gotta get out there and I'm sure meeting up once is ok, but anything regularly I'm not looking for.

I'm the last person that should giving this advice but you can't just tell her you're not looking for anything serious?
 
  • Like
Reactions: LokiDog

Filip Chytil

Registered User
Mar 3, 2014
6,772
7,871
This might be the best advice you could give anyone who's trying to achieve ANY goal in life and keeps stumbling. I'll just add that the type of physical activity doesn't matter as much - it can be anything in which you go through a cycle of continuous struggling and overcoming, then more struggling. I'll also suggest Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. It's a fierce journey to better yourself, you always want to quit, but you never let yourself give up. There is a lot to learn about yourself within that struggle, you learn who you really are and what you're really made of. The benefits manifest themselves in your physique(if you eat right) as well. Start a relationship with yourself first, whether it's lifting, BJJ training, even training for a marathon, go into the deep dark parts of yourself and figure out who you really are and you'll come out a different person. Relationships, work, everything in your life will fall into place.

Obviously late to responding to this but seconding the BJJ suggestion. I'm pretty into fitness and going to the gym, but BJJ is a different animal. Been on pause with it due to an injury, but would like to get back into it at some point. Mental and psychological benefits were also fantastic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bacon Artemi Bravo

Filip Chytil

Registered User
Mar 3, 2014
6,772
7,871
Old post, but I saw it quoted and I'll jump in.

It's definitely luck. I've been on 100 first dates, I'm sure. Some just didn't click and went nowhere. Some were one night stands, but obviously, at least one of us, didn't have an interest in a second get together. Some ended up in a handful of dates but fizzled because the chemistry wasn't there. Some ended up with a week, or month, or 3 months of hooking up but not getting serious. Some turned into relationships, which lasted anywhere from a few months to several years. There wasn't anything I felt I did right or wrong that led to any of those outcomes. In some (many) cases, I (or both of us) only wanted to hookup or have a physical fling. In some I (or both of us) just didn't seem to click and want to go beyond a first or second date. The only time I've ever felt I'd done something wrong has been when a long term relationship has ended, and it's what we all go through - both partners have likely done things differently than they'd have liked if they could have a re-do but you've reached the point of moving on and you take your regrets and lessons learned and do so.

Confidence, to me, just isn't what movies and books and coaches make it out to be. It's not about being smooth, or forward. It's not bravado or an act. That's not real confidence; confidence should be short for SELF confidence, which to me is being confident or, rather, secure and comfortable in YOURSELF. Comfortable to be who you are.

My fiance and I first met up at a bar for a drink. Blind date scenario, knew very little about each other besides maybe one or two talking points. I got their first, 20 minutes early and ordered a drink. I chatted with the bartender - I want to say it was Veteran's Day, I'd just separated from the Air Force and he was wearing a Grunt Style t-shirt so I asked if he was a fellow vet, etc. He gave me a shot of some terrible peanut butter whiskey. This ended up being a great idea because at least once during the date he offered us both another free shot, which probably made me look real cool :laugh:

She walked in and sheepishly approached to confirm that I was Matt and I stood up to greet her, because that's what a guy should do. We exchanged a very awkward, very light, quick hug and sat at the bar. Conversation was just as awkward and bumbling in the beginning as any of you would experience; no secrets, no trick for confidence or right thing to say. Just exploring interests, grasping for something to start a more earnest conversation about. I don't know how many times I laughed at myself and said "well, I'm a huge nerd, so..."

What's your favorite movie? "Well, I'm a huge nerd so... I LOVE Lord of the Rings... and Harry Potter... but I guess I also love Inglorious Basterds?"

Oh! I love Lord of the Rings, did you read it or just the movies?

"Come on, I just said I'm a huge nerd, of course I read it, and re-read it, and re-watch it like 3x a year"

"I rewatch it like every 6 months!"

Blah, blah, blah. Same exact conversation. So what about Game of Thrones? Read it, love it. Are you excited for the new show coming out? The Witcher? Turns out she read it all, in the original Polish. Oh wow, that's so cool didn't realize the author was Polish. I'll have to try reading it. How about sports? Not really into sports. Well, that's okay... I'm a huge nerd about hockey, so maybe I'll have to take you to a Rangers game.


A few drinks, lots of impassioned conversations about our favorite character or book or this or that. Lots of laughs. A couple of hours go by, she says it's getting late and she should get going before she has any more to drink. I agree, we both agree we had fun and should get together again. I walk her to her car and go for the kiss. Yes, it's awkward. She seems surprised. I think we even have a little laugh about the awkwardness of the moment, but then we kiss again, much better and depart. I texted her 30 minutes later that I had a good time. We had a second date a couple of days later, this time with an activity involved because two dates of just talking is a lot in the beginning, so bowling and laughing at each other kept it exciting.

Don't be nervous about getting back out there. Don't be Fonzie. Don't be aloof. Own who you are. Everything about my first date with my now fiance was about owning who I am and being totally honest about it. I didn't gloss over the fact that I love Lord of the Rings because it's nerdy or uncool. I proclaimed that I could quote the entire trilogy line by line and explain the Silmarilion. If she hadn't been into it, I may have reeled it in a little and not devoted as much time to discussing just how much I love it, but I'd have still owned it. The only thing that took actual "confidence" in the stereotypical sense - more like courage - was going for the kiss at the end, and yes, I think that she appreciated the confidence to do that and not meekly say goodnight (and this depends on your read of the date - it had went really well, I didn't think there was much chance of her rejecting a kiss).

Edit (bolded the important): also be self effacing to a degree. It’s better than talking about yourself too much. Wow, that long in the military… are you some kind of badass? Oh, haha, no I was more of a glorified security guard you could say. She didn’t need to know that I was in a special operations unit or SWAT right then and there and seizing upon the first opportunity to start listing my accomplishments would have been poor form. And civilians don’t fully speak military language so I’d have either been over explaining or losing her in the weeds. The same can be true if you’re an accountant, a chiropractor, whatever. A little self effacing comment and redirecting the conversation back to something more light hearted and mutually interesting goes a long way. You can go into greater depth on a future date, once you land one.

Great post and story.

The last paragraph and the bold got me thinking about something. There are 3 general possibilities in a one on one conversation. Either the conversation is centered around yourself in some capacity, the other person in some way, or the "grey" area which is essentially everything else. Talking about perhaps some recent news event is an example of the grey area. It's not specifically about yourself or the other party, but obviously the conversation can branch off to where the two of you are exchanging ideas about said event.

I think the key is to be comfortable in the latter two because as we all know, females enjoy talking about themselves. Generally speaking, most people are comfortable talking about themselves. I would say I'm an exception to this general rule, but I think most are more comfortable talking about themselves than centering the conversation about the other person. Takes practice. Asking lots of questions is key, but don't turn it into an interrogation either!

Usually, if you're talking about yourself, it's much easier to dictate the conversation. Perhaps this explains the previously mentioned general rule. Talking to a person you've first met, say they ask a question about what you do for a living. Well, you dictate what info is revealed and the extent that is revealed. The reason I mention this is because it likely contributes to a feeling of comfort, especially if you're not totally comfortable in who you are. Dictating the conversation when the conversation is centered on the other person is tricky because the shoe is flipped. The key is to just listen intently and pick up on something they said and comment on it in some way.

The other problem is sometimes we articulate things in an un-interesting way. Reading books on story telling and the power of story telling can help one articulate things in a conversation in a way that captures the opposite party. I am convinced one aspect of conversation is the power of story telling, which some people have come easier than others.

Some people genuinely get very nervous meeting a random girl for the first time. This is OK. Remember, if you're nervous, the girl is probably just as nervous (and likely far more nervous). It is nerve wracking, but it is all practice at the end of the day. Do it enough times and you will get comfortable after a while. We all don't look like Arnold when we walk into the gym for the first time, but that isn't the goal. The goal is incremental daily progress so in a month or two months or a year, we look back and appreciate the progress that's been made.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LokiDog

mas0764

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Jul 16, 2005
14,508
12,353
The thing is, at the risk of oversharing, it's not being down on my dating luck. It's not a matter of me having a dry spell. It's me never being on my dating luck in my life. So it's not as easy to just take my chances with the plethora of local NYC women, if I could do that I'd not even be in this thread. f***, I'd probably have a life and wouldn't post here as often. It's a learning experience for me. If I get fired for harassment or something, whatever I'm not super fond of this job anyway.

Have you tried online dating? Not joking. I met my wife online.

And don't go cheap. Pay for Match.com or something as well as a free one like plentyoffish.com.

It takes a while. I think many profiles are for people who don't pay and therefore can't respond, or who aren't interested in responding, or who are fake.

But there are real people out there. I got numerous dates, most did not go anywhere, a couple did and we dated for weeks/months, and of course, as I said, I met my wife on one of them and now have two beautiful children.
 

RempireStateBuilding

Registered User
Dec 13, 2009
3,689
1,938
NY
Alright boys and girls and everyone in between, strap in for an essay. I need some words of wisdom. My girlfriend and I (she's 31, I'm 35 in a couple months) have been together for about 2.5 years now, just moved in together 4 months ago. I have never really had an itch to have kids and the older I've gotten, the less and less I really care to have any. She wants 2-3. She originally said she didn't want to move in together without me making a decision on if I want kids, but things happened and we kinda just went for it.

She recently gave me an ultimatum (Kids: we stay together. No kids: We break up) and set a deadline for me to make a decision in the next month or so. I've given everything god knows how much thought and have gone from not wanting kids to being able to see myself as a father. But the question I now have to pretty quickly sort out is..do I really, ultimately, want kids? Do I want to deal with raising a family? Do I care about having a family of my own that includes children of my own?

I love my girlfriend with everything in me, but I have never seen myself as being an effective parent. I feel/know that I am a pushover with how I handle certain situations. I couldn't imagine trying to raise someone like my childhood self; I feel like I was a frustrating kid and a pretty shitty son to deal/live with. Knowing the things that I dealt with/thought internally while growing up, I have a very hard time wanting to actively create another human that will most likely experience the same feelings. My family's genetics, physical health-wise, are immaculate. Mental health-wise, things aren't the best. My mom struggles with depression. I have never been diagnosed but undoubtedly have some forms of anxiety and depression. I know the landscape of mental health and services are lightyears ahead of where they were even 20-25 years ago when I was young, but that does little to comfort me. Where I am now in life and looking at the things my parents did for me/allowed me to do..I can't fathom how my parents tolerated me, continued to dedicate most of their waking hours to me, and continue to love me.

I don't know if my own feelings of love and adoration toward my girlfriend are enough to overcome the stresses of raising multiple kids within the next ~5 years when I'm still unsure about having 1. I know everyone always says "Well you're never going to feel ready for [insert big life event here]", but right now I barely even make enough money to support the two of us. Granted I am about to be switching professions and will hopefully be making about double what I am now, but I hate operating on unrealized events/gains. It doesn't feel like a sound idea to do it that way, but this ultimatum would force me to bet on myself in a big way. I also have shit confidence in myself/my abilities which compounds the fear of assuming everything will work the way I'm planning it will because it typically does not.

One big thing in the pro-kid section is how amazing some of the people are I support through my jobs. I work in the special needs field between residential houses/an agency that sets up community outings/another agency where I work in a family's home directly with their son and do anything from word searches to bigger outings just the 2 of us, and if I could pluck some of these people and say "You're my kid now!" I would be over the moon. But obviously they are the way they are because they were raised by the families they were raised in. I, somehow, could see myself being a parent to a child with special needs more than a typically developing child's parent. They are such amazing individuals that make me love doing what I do. They make everything exciting. It's so much fun just pointing out and talking about random things we see on our trips with them and hearing their input on our surroundings. I love that feeling and love seeing them experience things, and sharing parts of themselves with us. One girl at a home I worked at was so good at playing piano and it was a treat to work around the house while she played the same part of some song that she learned over and over and over and over and.. Hearing that girl say "I love you" to me one day out of the blue made me absolutely melt into a puddle for the rest of the month.

But then the other huge bit swirling around all of this is I absolutely cannot stop thinking about the girl I dated directly before deciding to pursue my now-girlfriend. This other girl made it blatantly clear straight out of the gate that she had no interest in having kids, never had the itch, never felt her clock ticking. Things didn't work out because she basically felt I wasn't as forward/aggressive with trying to spend time with her - which wasn't entirely true. I attempted to set up numerous other dates, gave half a dozen options of things we could do in all sorts of settings (NYR game, hikes, indoor climbing, arcades, NYC gallivanting, etcetc), but she always had some excuse as to why she didn't want to. She later said she was upset I didn't just start inviting myself back over to her place. We had only really gone on a single date so I didn't feel like inviting myself over was a kosher move.

So the scumbaggy question is: Do I reconnect with this other girl to see if there's anything there still? Absolutely no guarantee she's even single at this point. I just feel absolutely rudderless and lost trying to navigate everything here.

Love yas!
 
Last edited:

Rangerfan4life90

Registered User
Oct 14, 2008
10,686
2,510
College Point, NY
@Overcast , I'm 31 and also not married (single, but am dating atm). I will say this - if you REALLY don't want to have kids, you got to be upfront with her and end it if it does come to that. Don't just go along with it and repress your true feelings about having kids in order to not rock the boat.

Granted, I don't think anybody is ever really ready to have kids for sure, but I feel you have to want to also be a parent on some level. If you really feel you don't want that at all, then don't do it and risk it. Not fair to your girl and the future kids.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Crease

Crease

Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
Jul 12, 2004
24,550
26,996
Kids are one of those things that you can’t lie to yourself about. Either you want them or not. Make sure you understand the difference between nervousness and lack of want. And as much as you want to stay with your partner, don’t have a kid to make it work. No no no. You will end up resenting both of them. There are others out there for you.
 
Last edited:

Boris Zubov

No relation to Sergei, Joe
May 6, 2016
19,187
26,693
Back on the east coast
@Overcast I'm in a similar situation that my GF has broached the kids thing with me after 8 years of agreeing neither of us wanted them previously. I can offer no new advice, but I completely agree with the others by saying you can't fake this as you will be directly affecting 5 lives potentially if you decide to move forward with a family. This is not the time to be untrue to yourself or deceive her in any way in order to keep your relationship afloat.

I will say this...if you're having thoughts about a former flame, it tells me your heart isn't in it & it's time to move on down the line.

None of this is easy, I feel for you brother.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Crease

Thirty One

Safe is safe.
Dec 28, 2003
28,981
24,356
Alright boys and girls and everyone in between, strap in for an essay. I need some words of wisdom. My girlfriend and I (she's 31, I'm 35 in a couple months) have been together for about 2.5 years now, just moved in together 4 months ago. I have never really had an itch to have kids and the older I've gotten, the less and less I really care to have any. She wants 2-3. She originally said she didn't want to move in together without me making a decision on if I want kids, but things happened and we kinda just went for it.

She recently gave me an ultimatum (Kids: we stay together. No kids: We break up) and set a deadline for me to make a decision in the next month or so. I've given everything god knows how much thought and have gone from not wanting kids to being able to see myself as a father. But the question I now have to pretty quickly sort out is..do I really, ultimately, want kids? Do I want to deal with raising a family? Do I care about having a family of my own that includes children of my own?

I love my girlfriend with everything in me, but I have never seen myself as being an effective parent. I feel/know that I am a pushover with how I handle certain situations. I couldn't imagine trying to raise someone like my childhood self; I feel like I was a frustrating kid and a pretty shitty son to deal/live with. Knowing the things that I dealt with/thought internally while growing up, I have a very hard time wanting to actively create another human that will most likely experience the same feelings. My family's genetics, physical health-wise, are immaculate. Mental health-wise, things aren't the best. My mom struggles with depression. I have never been diagnosed but undoubtedly have some forms of anxiety and depression. I know the landscape of mental health and services are lightyears ahead of where they were even 20-25 years ago when I was young, but that does little to comfort me. Where I am now in life and looking at the things my parents did for me/allowed me to do..I can't fathom how my parents tolerated me, continued to dedicate most of their waking hours to me, and continue to love me.

I don't know if my own feelings of love and adoration toward my girlfriend are enough to overcome the stresses of raising multiple kids within the next ~5 years when I'm still unsure about having 1. I know everyone always says "Well you're never going to feel ready for [insert big life event here]", but right now I barely even make enough money to support the two of us. Granted I am about to be switching professions and will hopefully be making about double what I am now, but I hate operating on unrealized events/gains. It doesn't feel like a sound idea to do it that way, but this ultimatum would force me to bet on myself in a big way. I also have shit confidence in myself/my abilities which compounds the fear of assuming everything will work the way I'm planning it will because it typically does not.

One big thing in the pro-kid section is how amazing some of the people are I support through my jobs. I work in the special needs field between residential houses/an agency that sets up community outings/another agency where I work in a family's home directly with their son and do anything from word searches to bigger outings just the 2 of us, and if I could pluck some of these people and say "You're my kid now!" I would be over the moon. But obviously they are the way they are because they were raised by the families they were raised in. I, somehow, could see myself being a parent to a child with special needs more than a typically developing child's parent. They are such amazing individuals that make me love doing what I do. They make everything exciting. It's so much fun just pointing out and talking about random things we see on our trips with them and hearing their input on our surroundings. I love that feeling and love seeing them experience things, and sharing parts of themselves with us. One girl at a home I worked at was so good at playing piano and it was a treat to work around the house while she played the same part of some song that she learned over and over and over and over and.. Hearing that girl say "I love you" to me one day out of the blue made me absolutely melt into a puddle for the rest of the month.

But then the other huge bit swirling around all of this is I absolutely cannot stop thinking about the girl I dated directly before deciding to pursue my now-girlfriend. This other girl made it blatantly clear straight out of the gate that she had no interest in having kids, never had the itch, never felt her clock ticking. Things didn't work out because she basically felt I wasn't as forward/aggressive with trying to spend time with her - which wasn't entirely true. I attempted to set up numerous other dates, gave half a dozen options of things we could do in all sorts of settings (NYR game, hikes, indoor climbing, arcades, NYC gallivanting, etcetc), but she always had some excuse as to why she didn't want to. She later said she was upset I didn't just start inviting myself back over to her place. We had only really gone on a single date so I didn't feel like inviting myself over was a kosher move.

So the scumbaggy question is: Do I reconnect with this other girl to see if there's anything there still? Absolutely no guarantee she's even single at this point. I just feel absolutely rudderless and lost trying to navigate everything here.

Love yas!
If you truly don't want to have kids, I think it's a clear answer. It's tough to read that and not wonder if you do, but are just insecure about your abilities to do so, though.
 

I Eat Crow

Fear The Mullet
Jul 9, 2007
19,758
13,000
Alright boys and girls and everyone in between, strap in for an essay. I need some words of wisdom. My girlfriend and I (she's 31, I'm 35 in a couple months) have been together for about 2.5 years now, just moved in together 4 months ago. I have never really had an itch to have kids and the older I've gotten, the less and less I really care to have any. She wants 2-3. She originally said she didn't want to move in together without me making a decision on if I want kids, but things happened and we kinda just went for it.

She recently gave me an ultimatum (Kids: we stay together. No kids: We break up) and set a deadline for me to make a decision in the next month or so. I've given everything god knows how much thought and have gone from not wanting kids to being able to see myself as a father. But the question I now have to pretty quickly sort out is..do I really, ultimately, want kids? Do I want to deal with raising a family? Do I care about having a family of my own that includes children of my own?

I love my girlfriend with everything in me, but I have never seen myself as being an effective parent. I feel/know that I am a pushover with how I handle certain situations. I couldn't imagine trying to raise someone like my childhood self; I feel like I was a frustrating kid and a pretty shitty son to deal/live with. Knowing the things that I dealt with/thought internally while growing up, I have a very hard time wanting to actively create another human that will most likely experience the same feelings. My family's genetics, physical health-wise, are immaculate. Mental health-wise, things aren't the best. My mom struggles with depression. I have never been diagnosed but undoubtedly have some forms of anxiety and depression. I know the landscape of mental health and services are lightyears ahead of where they were even 20-25 years ago when I was young, but that does little to comfort me. Where I am now in life and looking at the things my parents did for me/allowed me to do..I can't fathom how my parents tolerated me, continued to dedicate most of their waking hours to me, and continue to love me.

I don't know if my own feelings of love and adoration toward my girlfriend are enough to overcome the stresses of raising multiple kids within the next ~5 years when I'm still unsure about having 1. I know everyone always says "Well you're never going to feel ready for [insert big life event here]", but right now I barely even make enough money to support the two of us. Granted I am about to be switching professions and will hopefully be making about double what I am now, but I hate operating on unrealized events/gains. It doesn't feel like a sound idea to do it that way, but this ultimatum would force me to bet on myself in a big way. I also have shit confidence in myself/my abilities which compounds the fear of assuming everything will work the way I'm planning it will because it typically does not.

One big thing in the pro-kid section is how amazing some of the people are I support through my jobs. I work in the special needs field between residential houses/an agency that sets up community outings/another agency where I work in a family's home directly with their son and do anything from word searches to bigger outings just the 2 of us, and if I could pluck some of these people and say "You're my kid now!" I would be over the moon. But obviously they are the way they are because they were raised by the families they were raised in. I, somehow, could see myself being a parent to a child with special needs more than a typically developing child's parent. They are such amazing individuals that make me love doing what I do. They make everything exciting. It's so much fun just pointing out and talking about random things we see on our trips with them and hearing their input on our surroundings. I love that feeling and love seeing them experience things, and sharing parts of themselves with us. One girl at a home I worked at was so good at playing piano and it was a treat to work around the house while she played the same part of some song that she learned over and over and over and over and.. Hearing that girl say "I love you" to me one day out of the blue made me absolutely melt into a puddle for the rest of the month.

But then the other huge bit swirling around all of this is I absolutely cannot stop thinking about the girl I dated directly before deciding to pursue my now-girlfriend. This other girl made it blatantly clear straight out of the gate that she had no interest in having kids, never had the itch, never felt her clock ticking. Things didn't work out because she basically felt I wasn't as forward/aggressive with trying to spend time with her - which wasn't entirely true. I attempted to set up numerous other dates, gave half a dozen options of things we could do in all sorts of settings (NYR game, hikes, indoor climbing, arcades, NYC gallivanting, etcetc), but she always had some excuse as to why she didn't want to. She later said she was upset I didn't just start inviting myself back over to her place. We had only really gone on a single date so I didn't feel like inviting myself over was a kosher move.

So the scumbaggy question is: Do I reconnect with this other girl to see if there's anything there still? Absolutely no guarantee she's even single at this point. I just feel absolutely rudderless and lost trying to navigate everything here.

Love yas!
If you're in the middle of a big life/work change, it's not really a good time to make a life altering decision like this. Ask your girlfriend if this can be revisited at a point in time when things are more stable financially and your mind isn't preoccupied by it.

If she sticks by this "ultimatum" no matter what, that should tell you everything you need to know. Get out of there. I was never a fan of giving or receiving ultimatums, but I do know when a big decision is looming and needs to be made.

If you're considering pursuing an ex and are serious about it, that's telling as well.

It's easy to say behind a keyboard, but I will go with the consensus here. Having kids is 100% something both parents need to be on board with. Kids are smart cookies and realize they're resented for existing If one parent wasn't on board with then once they get to a certain age.
 

frozenrubber

Registered User
Sponsor
Nov 27, 2005
3,092
1,527
Brooklyn
Alright boys and girls and everyone in between, strap in for an essay. I need some words of wisdom. My girlfriend and I (she's 31, I'm 35 in a couple months) have been together for about 2.5 years now, just moved in together 4 months ago. I have never really had an itch to have kids and the older I've gotten, the less and less I really care to have any. She wants 2-3. She originally said she didn't want to move in together without me making a decision on if I want kids, but things happened and we kinda just went for it.

She recently gave me an ultimatum (Kids: we stay together. No kids: We break up) and set a deadline for me to make a decision in the next month or so. I've given everything god knows how much thought and have gone from not wanting kids to being able to see myself as a father. But the question I now have to pretty quickly sort out is..do I really, ultimately, want kids? Do I want to deal with raising a family? Do I care about having a family of my own that includes children of my own?

I love my girlfriend with everything in me, but I have never seen myself as being an effective parent. I feel/know that I am a pushover with how I handle certain situations. I couldn't imagine trying to raise someone like my childhood self; I feel like I was a frustrating kid and a pretty shitty son to deal/live with. Knowing the things that I dealt with/thought internally while growing up, I have a very hard time wanting to actively create another human that will most likely experience the same feelings. My family's genetics, physical health-wise, are immaculate. Mental health-wise, things aren't the best. My mom struggles with depression. I have never been diagnosed but undoubtedly have some forms of anxiety and depression. I know the landscape of mental health and services are lightyears ahead of where they were even 20-25 years ago when I was young, but that does little to comfort me. Where I am now in life and looking at the things my parents did for me/allowed me to do..I can't fathom how my parents tolerated me, continued to dedicate most of their waking hours to me, and continue to love me.

I don't know if my own feelings of love and adoration toward my girlfriend are enough to overcome the stresses of raising multiple kids within the next ~5 years when I'm still unsure about having 1. I know everyone always says "Well you're never going to feel ready for [insert big life event here]", but right now I barely even make enough money to support the two of us. Granted I am about to be switching professions and will hopefully be making about double what I am now, but I hate operating on unrealized events/gains. It doesn't feel like a sound idea to do it that way, but this ultimatum would force me to bet on myself in a big way. I also have shit confidence in myself/my abilities which compounds the fear of assuming everything will work the way I'm planning it will because it typically does not.

One big thing in the pro-kid section is how amazing some of the people are I support through my jobs. I work in the special needs field between residential houses/an agency that sets up community outings/another agency where I work in a family's home directly with their son and do anything from word searches to bigger outings just the 2 of us, and if I could pluck some of these people and say "You're my kid now!" I would be over the moon. But obviously they are the way they are because they were raised by the families they were raised in. I, somehow, could see myself being a parent to a child with special needs more than a typically developing child's parent. They are such amazing individuals that make me love doing what I do. They make everything exciting. It's so much fun just pointing out and talking about random things we see on our trips with them and hearing their input on our surroundings. I love that feeling and love seeing them experience things, and sharing parts of themselves with us. One girl at a home I worked at was so good at playing piano and it was a treat to work around the house while she played the same part of some song that she learned over and over and over and over and.. Hearing that girl say "I love you" to me one day out of the blue made me absolutely melt into a puddle for the rest of the month.

But then the other huge bit swirling around all of this is I absolutely cannot stop thinking about the girl I dated directly before deciding to pursue my now-girlfriend. This other girl made it blatantly clear straight out of the gate that she had no interest in having kids, never had the itch, never felt her clock ticking. Things didn't work out because she basically felt I wasn't as forward/aggressive with trying to spend time with her - which wasn't entirely true. I attempted to set up numerous other dates, gave half a dozen options of things we could do in all sorts of settings (NYR game, hikes, indoor climbing, arcades, NYC gallivanting, etcetc), but she always had some excuse as to why she didn't want to. She later said she was upset I didn't just start inviting myself back over to her place. We had only really gone on a single date so I didn't feel like inviting myself over was a kosher move.

So the scumbaggy question is: Do I reconnect with this other girl to see if there's anything there still? Absolutely no guarantee she's even single at this point. I just feel absolutely rudderless and lost trying to navigate everything here.

Love yas!

Therapy, start there immediately (yourself, not couple). Your confidence and self worth, or lack thereof is where you need to start.

If you were to be a parent, it isn't a fait accompli that you will be a poor one. But to be a good one, it takes A LOT of work and you have to devote time to perpetually trying to be a better person.

But not being a parent, you should be doing the same thing, learning to be a better person than the day before. Personal development is what everyone should be doing, regardless if there is a slightly smaller version of themselves around or not.

Also, the 'other girl' isn't an option and never was. Your confidence issues really sound like you've built this one loose relationship to something much larger in your head than actually ever existed.

Work on yourself in either scenario. Your GF is fine issuing an ultimatum as she has a limited window and doesn't deserve to be jerked around if your aren't on board. I would see if splitting the difference, requesting 3 months of seeking and participating in therapy so you can better articulate and figure out how you two will proceed. It's a good faith request in being a better person and better partner, and if she wants those elements for you and herself, it's a good litmus test of your compatibility while respecting her completely reasonable desires as well.
 
Last edited:

LokiDog

Get pucks deep. Get pucks to the net. And, uh…
Sep 13, 2018
11,984
23,853
Dallas
I agree with everything written in this thread so far responding to @Overcast but I will also play devil’s advocate for a minute. My wife and I were never like ‘all-in’ on having kids and definitely weren’t planning it when it happened. He’s 12 weeks old now, sleeping on my chest while I type this and he’s a lot of work. He’s also just a hilarious, fascinating, adorable source of joy. If you’re in an otherwise loving and solid relationship, getting too in your head about worthiness or ability to be a parent is a waste of time. If you look at my posts in the career thread, I have teetered on the edge of being uncertain I would even be able to provide for my family at times. Ultimately, all that seems to matter is that I love and do my best for my kid - he seems to be coming along wonderfully so far.

I’m not telling you to just decide yeah, f*** it, I’ll have a kid. Just don’t spend too much time getting in your own way. If you don’t want kids because you don’t want to have to give up the free wheeling, travel when you please, do as you please lifestyle that’s one thing. If you have worthiness issues and doubts about your quality as a parent, that’s probably something to work on. The thoughts of an ex-flame are a bit of a red flag with regards to the current relationship, but we’re all human and as a guy I can relate. Sometimes that’s a defense mechanism when faced with an ultimatum like this. Well, what other options are there? I’d avoid thinking that way.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad