OT: Relationship Advice Thread

[romba]

LTTP but so much this. I have many hobbies and interests but the quirkiest of them all is that I raise ant colonies (I've been doing this for a LONG time, way before AntsCanada was a thing - I actually was part of the community before he came on scene and he and I chatted a lot, I helped coach him early on, true story but not relevant here lol) and am pretty passionate about ants, wasps, bees, etc. in general. I don't advertise it but everyone knows this about me and everyone respects it. I'm newly single (well, about 8 months now on and off, but after being with the same person for 12 years it feels new as hell still, and I'm not over it) and I've put myself out there and been on a few dates. I wasn't ready at all, and I'm still not, but I went for it anyway. Just a few Tinder things. One in particular who was gorgeous and had made the first move... we chatted online for 3 days with 4-5 hour sessions of just non-stop back and forth and I wasn't shy at all to share my ant passion. She was really intrigued by it and got into it, asking all kinds of questions and wanting to see photos etc. It's not the kind of thing you'd expect would impress a girl you're trying to get to "meet in person" stage with but it was one of many things that worked. You can quickly tell if there's any interest in what you're putting down and the key is to keep it flowing whether the response to what you've said is upbeat and interested or dismissive. Once you let a speed bump affect your "game" (I hate that word but I can't think of another way to put it), it's all downhill and you've probably lost the thread. Her interest in me faded when I made the mistake of telling her about a serious argument I had gotten into with a friend that day because she hates drama and has no place for any of it in her life, so not knowing me very well and hearing that put her off. I didn't give up, I wrote her a long ass message and two days later she came back. We had another chat session and right in the middle of it she just casually says "Hey, why don't you come over tomorrow?" and that's how that happened.

I didn't ever try to impress her. I was just me. I kept everything light (except for discussing my fall out with a friend) and simple, I never forced boring questions, I never even asked what she did for a living or anything like that. Those things just naturally and fluidly enter conversation when you talk to someone for as long as we did. I never let any speedbump deter me. I just kept conversation going. Obviously this won't work with everyone, some people just really don't connect, but sometimes it does take a while before the connection occurs and you just can't give up on it until it's clear nothing is materializing. You can make virtually any topic interesting and funny if you approach it right and don't let up. The other thing I do is remember everything they say, especially things they're embarrassed about or find silly. I then find a way to bring that back into normal conversation at a later moment just as a side comment, and it often serves the dual purpose of indicating you find it cute or funny, and of having them get off their guard and open up more all while showing you pay attention and care. At least for me it does. There's a good and bad way to go about it. It does have to be smooth and requires some amount of charm and flirt already present, but it's definitely something that helps the dialogue continue.

In person is a whole different game. Even though we had chatted for dozens of hours, and I'm usually a confident guy, I was still nervous as hell meeting her (12 years of rust will do that). It was a bit slow and awkward at first but I just told myself what I'm telling you and stuck to my game, who I am naturally. I told myself that whether this worked out or not wasn't a big deal and forcing it wouldn't achieve anything but disappointment later. We didn't work out. Not romantically. I was clearly still too troubled by my ex and she read it quickly. But we spent the day together anyway, smuggled wine onto a beach, sat on a lifeguard chair and just chatted for 4 hours. She's great. We still talk. We still even flirt. There may or may not be something down the road. She expressed interest in visiting me a while back and while it didn't happen, the intrigue is still there.

It's easier said than done but being confident and funny, and having the ability to mock yourself AND her in a playful manner, keeping conversation going even if it's about the most mundane of things... you can always turn a topic of nothing into something... those are keys. Read the "room". Lead when you see you should and let her lead when she opens up. Feel free to interrupt her with comments about what SHE is interested in or discussing. Not rudely but just little things here and there. Laugh a lot, at yourself, at her, at any situation. Make yourself easy to talk to and she will seize that even if she's naturally quiet.

Sorry for the rambling long message. I haven't read this thread, just that comment, but I decided to put this out there for you and anyone else in case it helps. A lot of it easier said than done, especially the first time but it IS a practice that works and it helps you weed out who is a potential partner and who definitely isn't. Never change who you are or what you love for someone else, it will never work out. It's just the delivery and the reciprocation that matter. If you're on a date where you've previously chatted and exchanged photos and everything, that part is done. That's the heavy lifting. Being attracted to one another means you're already one step ahead in it. If you've chatted by text and it was funny and easy, then you're really good to go. It's time to find out if it sticks or not. And if it doesn't, don't let that bother you.

I learned this week that ants are one of a few animals to show 'rescue behavior'. The requirements include the victim being in distress, the rescuer putting themselves at risk, the actions of the rescuer being adequate to the victim's situation, and there is no immediate benefit or reward for the rescuer. Pretty cool. Makes sense too, the colony is numero uno for ants.

 

[romba]

Don't you have to go to special Latin dance clubs for that though? They don't play Salsa at a regular club or bar.

I feel like plenty of songs played at most generic clubs will have the right tempo and beat to throw some salsa moves on. Plus if you can salsa well it probably translates to just smooth dance moves overall.

As a bday present I signed my wife and I up for two dance class sessions on a groupon deal (it ended up being an annoying huge bait and switch to really just try to get us to sign up for 10 more classes). I discovered I'm a huge f***ing stiff and can be ok for about 3 seconds but that's about it. I thought maybe a pro could get me movin' but I found out it's like singing: some ppl can, some ppl can't, and then there's those who shouldn't even do it at kareoke with a bunch of drunkards. I'm the latter with dancing

 

[Boris Zubov]

trying to break up with a girl who absolutely refuses to be broken up with. Its... draining.

It's not me, it's you.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

As a former improviser, I find this very surprising. Maybe COVID put a damper on things?

UCB especially I know are a pretty tight knit group. On the whole, improv troupes are a very cool way to meet people and are for the most part very accommodating and welcoming.

I've done 4 classes at UCB and 1 or 2 of them we went out. The last 2 didn't. In Philly, I did 4 classes and only 2 went out, but that's because it was mostly the same people. It's very hit or miss.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

So I have a friend/former coworker that I grab a coffee with sometimes. She's married so I don't feel the pressure and I'm comfortable with her and in my biased opinion I'm funny and charming. But when it's someone I don't know I'm not nearly as funny and charming. I'm like a player that kills it during preseason but when the regular season starts I'm invisible.

 

[Boris Zubov]

So I have a friend/former coworker that I grab a coffee with sometimes. She's married so I don't feel the pressure and I'm comfortable with her and in my biased opinion I'm funny and charming. But when it's someone I don't know I'm not nearly as funny and charming. I'm like a player that kills it during preseason but when the regular season starts I'm invisible.

A buddy of mine is the same way around taken/unavailable women. He's gotten himself into a bit of trouble when their husbands/boyfriends seem to walk in at the wrong time. Never a dull moment....I digress.

Back to your situation, there's no risk or pressure therefore you can just be yourself. Bottom line is you need to figure out a way to bring your bullpen warm up session to the mound. That means being confident in yourself, not conforming or shifting your personality in order to impress someone. Women can sniff out insecurity (& desperation) like a bad smell.

 

[Crease]

A buddy of mine is the same way around taken/unavailable women. He's gotten himself into a bit of trouble when their husbands/boyfriends seem to walk in at the wrong time. Never a dull moment....I digress.

Back to your situation, there's no risk or pressure therefore you can just be yourself. Bottom line is you need to figure out a way to bring your bullpen warm up session to the mound. That means being confident in yourself, not conforming or shifting your personality in order to impress someone. Women can sniff out insecurity (& desperation) like a bad smell.

This. Another way to think about it is, don’t go into a date worrying you might not be a good fit for them. Just focus on whether they are a good fit for you.

 

[will1066]

So I have a friend/former coworker that I grab a coffee with sometimes. She's married so I don't feel the pressure and I'm comfortable with her and in my biased opinion I'm funny and charming. But when it's someone I don't know I'm not nearly as funny and charming. I'm like a player that kills it during preseason but when the regular season starts I'm invisible.

Remember, you're legit. Too legit to quit.

 

[Irishguy42]

Don't worry about being a good fit for them. Worry about them being a good fit for you, king.

Not feeling the pressure around your friend/former coworker just because they are married is not because they are married, but b/c they have accepted/appreciate you for being you.

It can be tough being comfortable being yourself in front of complete strangers, but it's an important hurdle to get over not just in dating, but in life in general.

 

[DialUp]

I'm like a player that kills it during preseason but when the regular season starts I'm invisible.

This is very common, and manifests, in part, by overthinking the situation. And most of us have done that for the majority of their dating experiences.

I met my wife when I started dating with the mindset of "I am going to have a good time tonight with or without you, but you are welcome to join and I hope you have a good time too." Wasn't easy getting to that point, but you know it when you start getting hits.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

This is very common, and manifests, in part, by overthinking the situation. And most of us have done that for the majority of their dating experiences.

I met my wife when I started dating with the mindset of "I am going to have a good time tonight with or without you, but you are welcome to join and I hope you have a good time too." Wasn't easy getting to that point, but you know it when you start getting hits.

Don't get me wrong. I used to be so bad and just freeze and not know what to say, I got better. It's still not my best self I find. I'm now not a mess but not as good as I could be.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

How quickly are you supposed to ask a woman out on a dating app? I've heard as quickly as possible and I've also heard you have to build rapport. A few times I asked quickly got a yes and then she would disappear. But I didn't really have a rapport it was me trying a hail Mary, like maybe this will be better in person.

Also what's the earliest you can ask out? I've been told to not ask out too early because it seems desperate, which makes sense to me.

 

[Taluss]

How quickly are you supposed to ask a woman out on a dating app? I've heard as quickly as possible and I've also heard you have to build rapport. A few times I asked quickly got a yes and then she would disappear. But I didn't really have a rapport it was me trying a hail Mary, like maybe this will be better in person.

Also what's the earliest you can ask out? I've been told to not ask out too early because it seems desperate, which makes sense to me.

My advice would be to ask them out to as soon as you get to know the person and feel comfortable with their vibe and personality.

Asking too early can yeah seem desperate and you don’t even know the person well at that point. A cute face isn’t everything.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

My advice would be to ask them out to as soon as you get to know the person and feel comfortable with their vibe and personality.

Asking too early can yeah seem desperate and you don’t even know the person well at that point. A cute face isn’t everything.

I'm talking to this girl now. I like her energy and she's very engaged and thoughtful in her answers but she messages me like once a day at most. I'd message her and she'd respond the next day or even miss a few days. She was on vacation but came back and still didn't respond to my message. It's kind of mixed signals. That said I'll take a few engaged and thoughtful messages to a bunch of one word answers. Maybe she doesn't text much.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I think this is a good date spot in Williamsburg. It's open till 11pm so not a typical coffee spot. Also coffee is served in pots, so shareable. Only thing is there are cultures that value coffee at all times during the day so it's possible that later in the day coffee shop wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea (no pun intended).

https://www.yelp.com/biz/qahwah-house-brooklyn

 

[Taluss]

I'm talking to this girl now. I like her energy and she's very engaged and thoughtful in her answers but she messages me like once a day at most. I'd message her and she'd respond the next day or even miss a few days. She was on vacation but came back and still didn't respond to my message. It's kind of mixed signals. That said I'll take a few engaged and thoughtful messages to a bunch of one word answers. Maybe she doesn't text much.

Interesting, does she start the convos often? That’s usually another sign if she’s interested or not. It’s good that she’s engaged with the convos, & yeah some people just simply don’t text much. Once a day does seem a little odd though.

 

[I Eat Crow]

One thing to remember is that women on dating sites probably receive at least 20 messages a day (if the woman is attractive, double it), 15 of which are from desperate, horny f***boys. The other 5 are legitimate, but probably only 2 or 3 of those have any kind of substance and refer to something in their dating site profile. Those are the messages that get the most responses and have the best chance of leading to good conversation and eventually a meeting or a date.

Women have this attitude, but men should too. Everyone on a dating site is shopping around and weighing their options. When I had accounts on match/Okcupid, sometimes I would have three dates per week, but most times, I had at least one every week. Now, I'm not particularly good looking, muscular, or famous at all, but what I did do was that I read the profiles and I would try my best to try and forge a connection with someone that I was sending a message to.

Profile says you love the Rangers? Me too! Ever been to a game?

I saw in your pictures that you went to Vegas this summer. That's awesome! Where did you stay? Did you see any shows there or make the trek to see the Grand Canyon?

Have kids? That's ok, I've got one too and he's awesome. How old are they?

You get a date, your objective should be to try to sell yourself to a woman and try to get them to stop seeing other dudes and delete their dating apps. Don't force anything @SnowblindNYR . Same way you act around your married woman friend or spouses of your friends is how you should act on dates. Just act like yourself. If you're not getting second or third dates, really look at yourself in the mirror and do some self reflection as to why. Are you interrupting your date when they're telling a story or trying to talk over them? Are you rude to the wait staff if you're at a restaurant or the employee of the coffee shop or bowling alley where the date is? Are you on your phone half the time or more and look disinterested? If you're really honest with yourself and you're not doing any of those things, then the woman isn't right for you or deserving of your time anyway.

Here's one last nugget for you @SnowblindNYR . Women love to talk. About themselves, about what they do, about their job, and about anything. They also love being paid attention to. As above, if you're disinterested and not paying attention, that's going to put them off big time. Sometimes I just don't feel like listening to my wife about her work dramas, especially if I had a long, rough day. I try to tell her this when it happens and it gets past five minutes or so and she's still going, and she'll get annoyed, but not as annoyed as if I'm totally not paying attention and reading something on my laptop or phone, for example while she's talking.

In summary, be polite, LISTEN, and be engaging and if the woman's personality doesn't suck eggs, you'll get second dates and beyond without a problem. Just don't feel any pressure to put on any kind of production or get nervous about "blowing it". Just be yourself, dude. If someone sees that you're a kind person that's polite and listens, I guarantee that there's someone out there for you. Sadly, in this day and age, people that are polite and listen that aren't sociopaths are getting harder and harder to find. A woman with a good head on her shoulders will appreciate and understand this.

Just my two cents of unsolicited input.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

How quickly are you supposed to ask a woman out on a dating app? I've heard as quickly as possible and I've also heard you have to build rapport. A few times I asked quickly got a yes and then she would disappear. But I didn't really have a rapport it was me trying a hail Mary, like maybe this will be better in person.

Also what's the earliest you can ask out? I've been told to not ask out too early because it seems desperate, which makes sense to me.

What's worked for me is building a little bit of a rapport first, and then asking her out. Typically within 2-3 days. In terms of actually exchanging numbers from an app/site, usually takes me a day at most lol, sometimes the same day after a few or so messages.

 

[LokiDog]

Part 1
(Let’s view part 3 as my post a few pages back about my first date with my fiancé, as a guide to in person meeting)

Alright, here’s a slightly more raw post for the guys in the dating pool. I promise, none of these numbers are inflated for ego; this is the raw details. After my divorce I spent ~3-4ish months just going to work, hanging with my buds from the military, staying in the gym and then got back on the horse. Over the following 13 months I slept with 21 women, 50% of them more than once, 10% of them anywhere from 10-50 times. That may make me an asshole. I wasn’t misleading or making promises to get what I wanted, and I was coming out of a 9 year relationship so that’s what I did. Lots of women around 30 are in a similar position or don’t feel that they have time for a relationship but have needs too! It’s 2021. In addition to those 21 there were some that I fooled around with and some dates that went nowhere.

The point of mentioning that isn’t to brag or self congratulate. It’s that it means I was consistently getting dates, consistently being liked on those dates, consistently making women comfortable around me and coming off as desirable. By which I mean, my advice may (or may not) be useful.

I will say this. 99% of those dates (whether they went nowhere or everywhere), I asked them to get together within 30 minutes to 3 days of matching. It doesn’t mean we got together that quickly, but I asked about meeting. I’d also say that 75% of them, we exchanged numbers and switched to texting within 24 hours of matching. Obviously, not right in the start when you have no rapport or vibes, but once conversation has some pace, a simple “hey, I’m really bad at checking this app, do you wanna text instead?” does the trick. I’ve actually never had a girl say “no, I’m not comfortable exchanging numbers”.

If they’re responding with one sentence per answer and going hours in between answers or texting you once a day, they’re not *really* interested yet. That they do keep responding or texting daily means they’re still open to you grabbing their interest, but so far the conversation hasn’t really wowed them. Of course, this isn’t a hard fast rule - but it’s an okay rule of thumb. You’ll know when you have them on a hook when they can set aside at least 5-10 minutes to actually exchange of flurry of messages back and forth with little delay. As @I Eat Crow talked about engaging conversation above, I’ll just say that I agree. I’ll add that strong eye contact is disarming and effective. Not just when they’re talking. It takes a little practice, but if you can keep eye contact after she finishes telling you something, maybe a cute anecdote and not say anything, she’ll usually get embarrassed and go “what???” which is a great opportunity to say something like “nothing, that was a cute story” or “nothing, I was just thinking I’m glad we decided to meet”. Obviously… if you come across as creepy rather than sweet, this move fails.

 

[LokiDog]

≈ Part 2.

During this stretch of success for me, my dating profile probably looked like this:




Matt, 31 (almost 35 now, Jesus)
5’10, Military
Just a dog and his dad. We’re probably too cool for you.



And I leveraged the shit out of Loki being adorable in at least half of my conversations. I’d send 5 pictures of Loki before one of me. I’d insist that Loki was cooler than their dog and that we’d have to meet to have a definitive ruling. Obviously you don’t want to over do anything, but gushing about your animal makes you seem sensitive and vulnerable, I’d wager. Granted I also had thinks like tattoos and military working for me, to counter the effects of coming across as too much of a softy.

Obviously not everyone has a dog and no one has a Loki (one of a kind), but everyone has interesting and endearing things about them. A simple tag line like the one I used was very effective. You don’t need to write a bio. Leave some mystery (and something for yourself to talk about). Don’t try to be too cool in your profile. Humor works. Borrow a friends dog for a picture if you have to. Dogs are a great ice breaker.

Then, when you have a match, don’t be boring and vanilla and safe in your approach. You have like 2-3 messages to grab this girls attention or someone else will. Hey, how’s your day going?
Is lame. Hey, awesome dog, what breed is that?! Is good. Hey, it says you’re a Rangers fan, me too! Isn’t a good opener, especially if you’re profile says that already. So, what do I have to do to take you to a Rangers game? Is a good opener.

And switch the conversation to text. It’s not hard. Just have to go for it.

 

[TheDirtyH]

If you want to go through dating apps you should read 'never split the difference'. It's all about sales, negotiations, etc. My policy on apps is that if a girl can't decide she's actually interested in a date, then it's not worth my time to pursue it. Like, if shes responding every few days or something, I say to myself, she's not interested. I dont take it personally or as a slight, becuase the reality is it may not be about me but about her interest in dating generally. Even when I've gotten girls' numbers they'll still flake or stop communicating, and frankly, I don't have the time to deal with flaky people.

That's how I feel about it. Personally, it seems to me like if we matched, we both are interested at some level. I don't like messaging, if we're gonna chat, let's meet. Why am I having a date virtually over the course of hours days or weeks just to MAYBE have a date? So I do as Loki does and ask to move to texting pretty quickly.

Like I say, lots of girls prove to be indecisive or unsure of what they're doing on the apps. They're mostly there for window shopping and some validation. So, if they show me thats the case, I just move on. Nobody, no matter how pretty or interesting they seem on a profile should be allowed to waste my time. jmho

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Interesting, does she start the convos often? That’s usually another sign if she’s interested or not. It’s good that she’s engaged with the convos, & yeah some people just simply don’t text much. Once a day does seem a little odd though.

She doesn't but I find that women rarely do. Once a day is low, but maybe that's the only time she checks bumble, I don't know. I'll ask her out on Thursday and see if that works.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Part 2.

During this stretch of success for me, my dating profile probably looked like this:




Matt, 31 (almost 35 now, Jesus)
5’10, Military
Just a dog and his dad. We’re probably too cool for you.

View attachment 464936 View attachment 464937 View attachment 464938 View attachment 464940 View attachment 464943

And I leveraged the shit out of Loki being adorable in at least half of my conversations. I’d send 5 pictures of Loki before one of me. I’d insist that Loki was cooler than their dog and that we’d have to meet to have a definitive ruling. Obviously you don’t want to over do anything, but gushing about your animal makes you seem sensitive and vulnerable, I’d wager. Granted I also had thinks like tattoos and military working for me, to counter the effects of coming across as too much of a softy.

Obviously not everyone has a dog and no one has a Loki (one of a kind), but everyone has interesting and endearing things about them. A simple tag line like the one I used was very effective. You don’t need to write a bio. Leave some mystery (and something for yourself to talk about). Don’t try to be too cool in your profile. Humor works. Borrow a friends dog for a picture if you have to. Dogs are a great ice breaker.

Then, when you have a match, don’t be boring and vanilla and safe in your approach. You have like 2-3 messages to grab this girls attention or someone else will. Hey, how’s your day going?
Is lame. Hey, awesome dog, what breed is that?! Is good. Hey, it says you’re a Rangers fan, me too! Isn’t a good opener, especially if you’re profile says that already. So, what do I have to do to take you to a Rangers game? Is a good opener.

And switch the conversation to text. It’s not hard. Just have to go for it.

Hey look at how smooth I was with my dog!

*Posts pics showing off his muscles.

 

[Fitzy]

Every time I get unhappy with little aspects of my marriage I open this thread and feel a thousand times better.

Want some advice if you're looking for a long term companion? Stop worrying so much about looks.

 

[Taluss]

She doesn't but I find that women rarely do. Once a day is low, but maybe that's the only time she checks bumble, I don't know. I'll ask her out on Thursday and see if that works.

Good luck man!!!