Referee Wes McCauley has a major conflict with Keefe, shouldn't be reffing Leafs Games

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Twine Tickler

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Apr 5, 2010
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It's not just a Wes McCauley thing though, game 6 is when they got the phantom 5 on 3 last series (yes, two high sticks in a row were actually embellishment from their players) and that saved their series.

We even had 1 single Tampa fan acknowledge this the other day which was shocking, but anyone who denies we have been royally f***ed over for atleast 3 games in a row now is really denying reality.
Oh trust me, I did not forget that one bit. We started that 3rd period with such a purpose too. There was no doubt in my mind that we were going to win that game, and then they were given life with those horrendous calls.

At the end of the day, we just need to find a way to get the job done on the kill. That is ultimately all we can control.
 

Donnie D

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Anyone who denies we have been royally f***ed over for atleast 3 games in a row now is really denying reality.
comment deleted. This showed up on the front page and I commented thinking it was a general board. I now see that it was on the TML site. I don’t believe in commenting on other fans boards. Sorry.
 
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seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
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Those news articles are his source?? And where are the news articles getting private court info from??
Like I said, it's not private that he testified or that he testified in favor of frost. Only the exact details are.

It's not exactly a feather in one's cap to be pro-David Frost and testifying in court on his behalf. To the point where I would say it's an insult to say that someone did. If it is in fact untrue, you would expect Keefe to threaten legal action to whoever reported that, or at the very least to come out and vehemently deny it so as not to appear to have any pro-David Frost viewpoint. To the best of my knowledge, he's done no such thing.
 

IPS

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Like I said, it's not private that he testified or that he testified in favor of frost. Only the exact details are
Literally doesn't answer my question at all.

I get it that life in Regina, Saskatchewan is probably pretty dull but you really need better things to do then try and gaslight Leafs fans on an online forum.
 

seventieslord

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Literally doesn't answer my question at all.

I get it that life in Regina, Saskatchewan is probably pretty dull but you really need better things to do then try and gaslight Leafs fans on an online forum.
Congrats - this says a lot more about you than it does about me.

And I did answer your question, which was, "where are the news articles getting private court info from?" the answer is, nowhere. There's no private information being reported.

I literally answered your actual question and then you told me I didn't. Who's gaslighting?
 
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authentic

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Oh trust me, I did not forget that one bit. We started that 3rd period with such a purpose too. There was no doubt in my mind that we were going to win that game, and then they were given life with those horrendous calls.

At the end of the day, we just need to find a way to get the job done on the kill. That is ultimately all we can control.

Very true but that is also an embarrassment on behalf of the league.

This is something else really funny to think about. I don't remember complaining about refs my whole life until the Tampa series last year. Literally not once did I post about refs on here, because realistically horrible calls always went both ways for the most part and I always thought people who complained about it just couldn't see things from the other side.

Now suddenly it's happening every single game we play Tampa and we have former NHL players and broadcasters acknowledging it and yet some are still in denial. That's all I'll say on the topic and honestly if it's going to be us vs. Tampa and the refs from here on out then that's a mismatch I don't see us winning once again.
 

IPS

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Congrats - this says a lot more about you than it does about me.

And I did answer your question, which was, "where are the news articles getting private court info from?" the answer is, nowhere. There's no private information being reported.

I literally answered your actual question and then you told me I didn't. Who's gaslighting?
So who's saying Keefe testified for Frost then? And yes it's literally private information, do you not know how the court system works?
 

authentic

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Jan 28, 2015
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You have figured it out. It's just logic. If the Leafs win, even a series, merchandise sales would go through the roof. Can you imagine the merchandise sales were the Leafs to win the cup? Tickets for Leaf games are much higher than they are in Tampa. Not to mention TV ratings.

If the Leafs win, league revenues would grow by several million dollars. And Bettman just hates it when league revenues grow and his owners make more money. And that's why he and the league will conspire to keep the Leafs from winning.


Yes, the Cernak penalty was shit and Toronto was given life with that call.

That's cool and all but it doesn't change what transpired in our playoff games against Tampa so far.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
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So who's saying Keefe testified for Frost then? And yes it's literally private information, do you not know how the court system works?
Look man, I'm not telling you to just read the post, I'm telling you to read the articles within the post. You can do that can't you?

If you don't feel like it, you can at least read the snippets he pasted there for you.

If you're doubting the validity, refer back to my edit three posts ago that you probably haven't read
 

Donnie D

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That's cool and all but it doesn't change what transpired in our playoff games against Tampa so far.
Yes, the fans of every team that loses complains about the refs. It's like death and taxes. 8 games in the first round have been played and 8 teams got screwed over by the refs.
 

IPS

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Look man, I'm not telling you to just read the post, I'm telling you to read the articles within the post. You can do that can't you?

If you don't feel like it, you can at least read the snippets he pasted there for you.

If you're doubting the validity, refer back to my edit three posts ago that you probably haven't read
Buddy, some writer in a news article saying he knows something is not a source. I don't know why this needs to be explained to you, but wow that's embarrassing on your part. You should probably leave now.

Instead of being a student of the game maybe you should be a bit more of a student of proper sources cause you seem to be really lacking in that department.
 
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KMNRB

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Jul 4, 2015
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McCauley should keep reffing Leafs games. As everyone has said, he's obviously biased, and his bias is in favour of Sheldon Keefe, who did his beloved brother-in-law David Frost a solid, by testifying in court on his behalf in 2009, helping lead to his acquittal. Tampa Bay should be complaining here.

Leafs are clearly at an advantage with McCauley reffing - they just need to play better.

If he is biased in favour of the Leafs, he shouldn't be reffing Leafs' games either.

(Even as a Leaf fan I wouldn't want a ref to be biased for the Leafs. What is the point of playing if you win only when the refs gives you 30 powerplays in a game?)

This just exposes how there is no logical argument in whatever you have been saying, in addition to making things up to support your stance with zero ground.
 
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Twine Tickler

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Yes, the Cernak penalty was shit and Toronto was given life with that call.
My guess is you are a Bolts fan. I think this is fair to say from your perspective. I definitely can understand the logic in letting that go, but to the same degree I would say the Brodie call in the 1st. By the letter of the law, both of those were called appropriately. I didn't care for the Brodie call personally, but I have no real ground to stand on with respect to it. It was soft, but a penalty. Cernak roughing, soft, but a penalty.

the penalty that @authentic and I were discussing was in the 2021-22 playoffs game 6. Where a phantom high stick put the Leafs down 2 men and ultimately gave life to the lightning in a period that they did not appear to have as much life as the Leafs.

If you've read any of my posts in this thread, you will know I have said countless times that we did not deserve game 1 yesterday. We didn't lose because of the officiating. We lost because of our inability to start on time, kill a penalty, and box out at the top of the crease. That does not deny the fact that the game was poorly officiated towards the Leafs. Which it was. And in spite of our inability to start on time, kill a penalty, and box out at the top of the crease we were still in the game at 3-2 when things got really squirrelly from an officiating POV.

Agree to disagree all you want, but i suggest if you're looking for likeminded folk, you might want to stick to your own teams board? just a thought
 
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Transplanted Caper

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Keefe being called to testify for the defense seems like a fact. This is the kind of information that would be available in disclosure (ie we wouldn't know if Keefe testified AT ALL unless it was on one side's witness list). We don't know what he said or was asked and don't know what kind of place he was in his life because of his relationship with Frost and how he operated. That this has been brought up and manipulated to attack McCauley's integrity or Keefe for that matter given the circumstances is gross.

For Keefe, it’s been a deeply personal awakening. He was abused, mentally and emotionally, by Frost, who was very effective at ostracizing teenage players from their families. Keefe spent years as an eager pupil of Frost’s harmful dictates. That was the Keefe who was loathed by teammates outside the clique of Frost disciples on the Quinte Hawks, the St. Michael’s Majors and the Barrie Colts, among others. The Keefe who basically disregarded his coaches while being signalled from the stands by Frost. The Keefe who memorably refused to shake the hand of OHL commissioner David Branch at the 2000 Memorial Cup opening ceremony. The Keefe who was a witness at Frost’s 2008 trial on four counts of sexually exploiting young hockey players. (Frost was acquitted. Keefe’s testimony remains under a publication ban.)
 
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IPS

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Agree to disagree all you want, but i suggest if you're looking for likeminded folk, you might want to stick to your own teams board? just a thought
We're literally at the point now where Main board fans are coming in here posting misinformation freely to gaslight Leafs fans . Don't count on it.
 

Superstar

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Jun 25, 2008
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I think the officiating was meh going into the 1st intermission. The McCabe highstick is clear as day, and the Brodie call was a hold to the letter of the law. That said, it was a very marginal hold and one that we saw countless times in that game alone go uncalled. It was a weird time to start making that call IMO, but nevertheless it was a hold and I can live with it regardless of the inconsistency that proceeded it.

where the officiating gets really suspect is when the game went 3-2. Below is a summary of how the final 8 minutes of the 2nd went down.

1. Leafs finally have jump after the Willy goal, the crowd is finally awake. McCabe throws a big and clean hit in neutral ice. He is subsequently taken out of the play by multiple Lightning players trying to challenge him to a fight. The whistle is not blown, no calls were made, and the play continues down into the Leafs end with their best defender still being hounded at the lightning bench. In an attempt to get back in the play and cover for McCabe, Kampf takes a penalty that is also a very soft call. There was not slash on the hands, and i'd argue that isn't even aggressive enough to warrant a stick on stick slash. Just horrible call really. It was very obvious that they felt a need to have a makeup call for the McCabe hit, that was not a penalty, as the Lightning bench erupted. This was the 1st of 2 lightning reactions that caused a game altering decision by the officiating crew

2. Brayden Point scores on the ensuing powerplay. The score is now 4-2

3. Michael Bunting then takes a frustration penalty that just cannot happen. It's 100% a penalty, but I am still not convinced it is a match + game. The fact that Cernak got hurt on the play was the ultimate reason he got the 5 and a game. I can get behind that decision. He took out their 3rd best defensmen on a needless play, and he should serve the time as a result.

5. Corey Perry scores?? I have still not seen a camera angle that conclusively shows the puck all the way over the goaline. Yet Wes McCauley seemingly saw the puck cross the line from this angle (see below)
View attachment 691738

Keep in mind Wes' hand is already pointing goal at this point but begins his motion for a good goal 0.5 second earlier, when he is 2 paces further away from the crease. Ya there's no f***ing way you saw that puck go in Wes. But because the call on the ice was a good goal, we somehow didn't have the conclusive evidence to overturn it....I am not suggesting the puck did not fully go over the line, I have just not seen 1 camera angle that definitively proves that it did. But Wes did, with his X-ray vision 10 feet away from the goaline. He motions for a goal based on the lightning reaction, plain and simple. No other way to chalk that up. Bush league.

6. We then challenge for goaltender interference, which TBH is kind of fair given that Sammy's pad clearly goes in with the puck. It's not goalie interference in the sense that he was interfered with in making the save, but the only way for that puck to cross the line, would be for Sammy's pad to go with it. Last I checked you are not allowed to do that. But again, that seemed fine after review.

7.We get a delay of game for failed challenge. On a goal that we don't even know went in, and even if it did go in it would have been pushed across the line along with Sammy's pad. They then score again on the ensuing 5 on 3 making the score 6-2

did we lose the game because of officiating? Absolutely not. We lost that game because we sucked. We were undisciplined. We gave the refs an opportunity to call that game however they wanted and we didn't show up on the PK when those calls didn't go our way. We lost, and we deserved to lose.

That doesn't take away from the clear and obvious poor officiating in that 2nd period. To say it didn't have an impact in the game is completely false. The game was 3-2 when this run of poor officiating started, and in a matter of 8 minutes of game play the game was completely out of reach. I am hardly the one to stir up the controversy when it comes to officiating, but the Leafs being 0-8 in the playoffs since 2016-17 when Wes is the Ref seems very convenient. You add the history between him and Keefe, and it really is something the League needs to look into IMO. Even if it is an unconscious bias from Wes' standpoint, and not intentional match fixing, there is clearly a history here.
Funny thing is he can't even see the puck from that angle...guy is literally guessing where the puck is.
 

AvroArrow

Mitch "The God" Marner
Jun 10, 2011
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You have figured it out. It's just logic. If the Leafs win, even a series, merchandise sales would go through the roof. Can you imagine the merchandise sales were the Leafs to win the cup? Tickets for Leaf games are much higher than they are in Tampa. Not to mention TV ratings.

If the Leafs win, league revenues would grow by several million dollars. And Bettman just hates it when league revenues grow and his owners make more money. And that's why he and the league will conspire to keep the Leafs from winning.


Yes, the Cernak penalty was shit and Toronto was given life with that call.

Ratings don't work how you think they do, and that's exactly the reason why US teams or small market teams like Tampa always get the benefit here.

If a team like Tampa is out in the first round and irrelevant, an already small fan base gets even smaller. Toronto isn't the only team that deals with this crap, all Canadian teams do. I've seen enough West Coast games and you can say what you want about the Oilers PP chances, nobody in the league gets interfered with more than him.

Genuine question, can anyone provide a link or refer to a playoff game in the last 7 years where our opposition was royally screwed and we got multiple phantom penalties at critical moments ?
 

AvroArrow

Mitch "The God" Marner
Jun 10, 2011
18,811
19,969
Toronto
Very true but that is also an embarrassment on behalf of the league.

This is something else really funny to think about. I don't remember complaining about refs my whole life until the Tampa series last year. Literally not once did I post about refs on here, because realistically horrible calls always went both ways for the most part and I always thought people who complained about it just couldn't see things from the other side.

Now suddenly it's happening every single game we play Tampa and we have former NHL players and broadcasters acknowledging it and yet some are still in denial. That's all I'll say on the topic and honestly if it's going to be us vs. Tampa and the refs from here on out then that's a mismatch I don't see us winning once again.

Chelios literally call it the worst officiating he has seen in a very long time

Last year Sean Avery and Ryan Whitney called out the refs and called it a disgrace and some of the worst officiating they have ever seen

Anyone got a link to any former player/analyst calling out the officiating in the playoffs that was heavily in favor of Toronto ?

It's pathetic, but I'm sure the hockey experts on HFboards know better than Mark Messier and Chris Chelios :laugh:
 

Pink Mist

RIP MM*
Jan 11, 2009
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Like I said, it's not private that he testified or that he testified in favor of frost. Only the exact details are.

It's not exactly a feather in one's cap to be pro-David Frost and testifying in court on his behalf. To the point where I would say it's an insult to say that someone did. If it is in fact untrue, you would expect Keefe to threaten legal action to whoever reported that, or at the very least to come out and vehemently deny it so as not to appear to have any pro-David Frost viewpoint. To the best of my knowledge, he's done no such thing.

Actually it is private information because witness statements were sealed in court. It was leaked that Keefe testified but anything alleged to be said by him is pure speculation
 

IPS

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Actually it is private information because witness statements were sealed in court. It was leaked that Keefe testified but anything alleged to be said by him is pure speculation
Take it easy on him man - the guy thinks a sportsnet article is a legitimate source proving Keefe testified in favor of Frost :laugh:
 
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seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
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Buddy, some writer in a news article saying he knows something is not a source. I don't know why this needs to be explained to you, but wow that's embarrassing on your part. You should probably leave now.

Instead of being a student of the game maybe you should be a bit more of a student of proper sources cause you seem to be really lacking in that department.
"Registered user?" What does that even mean? Are you on some sort of registry we should know about? And what substances do you "use"? Maybe if you had been a member of this board for longer than 5.5 years you would know how to properly conduct yourself here.
 

IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
16,264
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Chelios literally call it the worst officiating he has seen in a very long time

Last year Sean Avery and Ryan Whitney called out the refs and called it a disgrace and some of the worst officiating they have ever seen

Anyone got a link to any former player/analyst calling out the officiating in the playoffs that was heavily in favor of Toronto ?

It's pathetic, but I'm sure the hockey experts on HFboards know better than Mark Messier and Chris Chelios :laugh:
They don't know anything. They're Leafs fans with a victim complex.
 

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