Referee Wes McCauley has a major conflict with Keefe, shouldn't be reffing Leafs Games

[authentic]

Chelios literally call it the worst officiating he has seen in a very long time

Last year Sean Avery and Ryan Whitney called out the refs and called it a disgrace and some of the worst officiating they have ever seen

Anyone got a link to any former player/analyst calling out the officiating in the playoffs that was heavily in favor of Toronto ?

It's pathetic, but I'm sure the hockey experts on HFboards know better than Mark Messier and Chris Chelios

The hockey experts on HFboards still think Matthews has never threw a hit in a playoff game, can't tell a clean hit from a headshot, can't tell snow from a red line, they're complete boneheads that deserve to be ridiculed along with the officiating in this league.

 

[Transplanted Caper]

Take it easy on him man - the guy thinks a sportsnet article is a legitimate source proving Keefe testified in favor of Frost

Neither Sportsnet, the Toronto Star, or the Globe are going to write that without knowing. That doesn't mean he went in there and sung Frost's praises, said he did nothing wrong, or attacked others or that he feels the same way about Frost in 2023. It's a legal term. It means he was called by the defense.

 

[AvroArrow]

The hockey experts on HFboards still think Matthews has never threw a hit in a playoff game, can't tell a clean hit from a headshot, can't tell snow from a red line, they're complete boneheads that deserve to be ridiculed along with the officiating in this league.

Off topic, Matthews was on the ice for all 3 goals for and 0 goals against last night

If Samsonov can return to form and we got an official not named McCauley/Chris Lee, Leafs in 5 or 6.

 

[seventieslord]

Buddy, some writer in a news article saying he knows something is not a source. I don't know why this needs to be explained to you, but wow that's embarrassing on your part. You should probably leave now.

Instead of being a student of the game maybe you should be a bit more of a student of proper sources cause you seem to be really lacking in that department.

OK, now for my serious answer. You're calling Gare Joyce "some writer in a news article". Do you have any idea how uninformed that makes you sound? He's a journalist who follows a code of ethics. He doesn't make shit up. If he said that, he can back it up. Like I said, it's not private that Keefe testified and it's not private that it was for Frost. And those two details destroy the entire McCauley narrative.

Actually it is private information because witness statements were sealed in court. It was leaked that Keefe testified but anything alleged to be said by him is pure speculation

The fact that he was called by the defense says enough. You don't call witnesses that you expect to incriminate your client.

 

[authentic]

Off topic, Matthews was on the ice for all 3 goals for and 0 goals against last night

If Samsonov can return to form and we got an official not named McCauley/Chris Lee, Leafs in 5 or 6.

And If we show up to play a full 60 minutes from here on out there's definitely a chance, but somehow I think our prediction of 5 games before the series is not happening now - I would love to be proven wrong though.

 

[IPS]

OK, now for my serious answer. You're calling Gare Joyce "some writer in a news article". Do you have any idea how uninformed that makes you sound? He's a journalist who follows a code of ethics. He doesn't make shit up. If he said that, he can back it up. Like I said, it's not private that Keefe testified and it's not private that it was for Frost. And those two details destroy the entire McCauley narrative.

Is that the same as a politician who's for the people?

Gare Joyce probably heard the leaked info that Keefe possibly testified and that's it. He literally cannot know anything else because it's sealed court documents. Speculation is all you have and you're trying to pass off your speculations as fact, go try somewhere else.

 

[justashadowof]

It doesn't really look like this indirect relationship has really impacted Keefe's Leafs in the past. That said, it is a bit of a conflict of interest and maybe the league should have put it on some list as a matchup to avoid. And one more thing, Keefe is not a stranger to childish behaviour against league officials dating back as recently as his days coaching in the OHL. People can have long memories and some of them believe revenge is best served up cold after seeming to be impartial until the best opportunity presents itself.

 

[AvroArrow]

And If we show up to play a full 60 minutes from here on out there's definitely a chance, but somehow I think our prediction of 5 games before the series is not happening now - I would love to be proven wrong though.

I'm still pretty confident in it. Literally everything that could have went wrong, did go wrong last night. From goaltending, to the PK to officiating. We can only really trend up from here. Cernak is already ruled out, Hedman is questionable so if he does play he will be even more banged up than he was before the series started.

Tampas D is very reliant on those 2 guys, they are Tampas studs defensively. Sergachev is primarily there for offence, break outs and PP opportunities. He's not a good defender. Like I feel like an asshole for saying it, but if those 2 are out the Leafs should steamroll Tampa the rest of the series.

 

[Pink Mist]

The fact that he was called by the defense says enough. You don't call witnesses that you expect to incriminate your client.

The fact he was called by the defense means nothing aside that he was called by the defense. Anything beyond that is speculation

We don't know what the defense was calling him to testify on, what facts they were trying to establish,their line of questioning, literally anything

 

[joepeps]

The refs absolutely were dog water last night. There is no arguing it....but I can't be angry about it. If the Leafs had of showed up on time, if the coach hadn't gotten taken to school. Maybe then I would feel like we could complain about the refs. The way we played? Refs were down the list of problems lol

Ur right the only criteria for having good reffing is showing up on time... then you can take a break for the other 50 mins and still get the calls... ohhh wait... that doesnt work..

How about this... and i know its hard to fathom.... CALL A FAIR GAME

 

[Transplanted Caper]

If a reporter is covering a trial with sealed testimony about sexual exploitation, I assure you they see more lawyers back at their office reviewing the language of their writing than they see in the actual courtroom. "For" should not be viewed through some sort of pro-sex assault lens but through legalese. If Keefe had been called to testify FOR the prosecution and against Frost then that it what would be written.

Again, Keefe - among others - was clearly a victim of Frost's targeted manipulation. Any testimony in 2008 deserves to be viewed through that lens too, but he did bad things and, to his credit, turned his life around and has been praised for his behaviour and leadership in Pembroke, the Soo, the Marlies, and the Leafs.

The issue here, is the incorrect suggestion that he is being targeted by McCauley for his testimony which has absolutely no basis in fact, and whose veracity lies not just on a completely unsubstantiated notion that Keefe went into the courtroom and turned on Frost - who was *acquitted* - but that Frost and McCauley are assumed to be incredibly close and that it impacts the latter's officiating.

 

[Donnie D]

i suggest if you're looking for likeminded folk, you might want to stick to your own teams board? just a thought

This thread showed up on the front page and I commented thinking it was a general thread. I now see that it was on the TML site. I don’t believe in commenting on other fans boards and have deleted my comment. Sorry.

 

[seventieslord]

Is that the same as a politician who's for the people?

Gare Joyce probably heard the leaked info that Keefe possibly testified and that's it. He literally cannot know anything else because it's sealed court documents. Speculation is all you have and you're trying to pass off your speculations as fact, go try somewhere else.

Again, this couldn't possibly be a more misinformed take.

Your assertion, which is solely for the purposes of backing up the narrative about Wes McCauley being biased against Sheldon Keefe, is that he testified against David Frost. There's no actual evidence of this, but you believe it anyway.

My assertion is that he testified for the defense, i.e David Frost, because that was reported by an actual journalist and published by an actual reputable news source and has never been disputed by anybody.

But last page you told me I need to be a student of proper sources. What are yours? Hot takes posted by angry leaf fans following playoff losses?

 

[BruinsBtn]

The fact he was called by the defense means nothing aside that he was called by the defense. Anything beyond that is speculation

We don't know what the defense was calling him to testify on, what facts they were trying to establish,their line of questioning, literally anything

It's all public record: Tales about Frost trysts lies, trial told

 

[CabanaBoy5]

If McCauley doesn't have any bias against Keefe or the Leafs, we are only left to conclude that he's pretty damned incompetent. Picking Bunting out of scrums as the lone culprit as he did during the season, calling goals that he obviously didn't see go in the net as he did on the 5th goal, calling a crosscheck on Schenn when no stick was used but a forearm, and a ticky-tack slash on Kampf, which was followed by an equal and more obvious slash by the Tampa player a second later, just when we had the momentum of getting back in the game.

Stop defending this turd ... he's either biased against the Leafs or an incompetent ref. Gotta be one or the other.

 

[Twine Tickler]

This thread showed up on the front page and I commented thinking it was a general board. I now see that it was on the TML site. I don’t believe in commenting on other fans boards. Sorry.

It happens, all good

 

[IPS]

Your assertion, which is solely for the purposes of backing up the narrative about Wes McCauley being biased against Sheldon Keefe, is that he testified against David Frost. There's no actual evidence of this, but you believe it anyway.

Yeah and I'll admit it was a wrong assertion on my part - I just naturally assumed he testified against him because of the whole sexual assault thing. Tons of news articles also made this mistake.

My assertion is that he testified for the defense, i.e David Frost, because that was reported by an actual journalist and published by an actual reputable news source and has never been disputed by anybody.

Your assertion holds absolutely no more weight than mine. This reputable journalist has access to all the same information that we all do - and thus he doesn't know more than anyone else, he can only pretend he does. It was already pointed out to you that Keefe was simply called upon by defense - and it could have been for literally anything. Parlaying this into claiming Keefe testified for Frost is simply wrong.

But last page you told me I need to be a student of proper sources. What are yours? Hot takes posted by angry leaf fans following playoff losses?

And this isn't a proper source no matter how badly you want it to be.

This thread showed up on the front page and I commented thinking it was a general board. I now see that it was on the TML site. I don’t believe in commenting on other fans boards. Sorry.

if only other main board fans were like you.

 

[egd27]

The fact he was called by the defense means nothing aside that he was called by the defense. Anything beyond that is speculation

We don't know what the defense was calling him to testify on, what facts they were trying to establish,their line of questioning, literally anything

You think there's even the remotest possibly that he would have been called by the defense for a reason other than to assist in gaining an acquittal?

 

[seventieslord]

This reputable journalist has access to all the same information that we all do

Like, come on, this is absolutely not true. That's not how journalism works. Joyce's reputation was already very strong by 2009, and he definitely would have had access to all the correct people that he would need to talk to in order to make the claims that he made in his article.

 

[IPS]

You think there's even the remotest possibly that he would have been called by the defense for a reason other than to assist in gaining an acquittal?

True but it could be something as simple as confirming an alibi for one hour of one night.

Like, come on, this is absolutely not true. That's not how journalism works. Joyce's reputation was already very strong by 2009, and he definitely would have had access to all the correct people that he would need to talk to in order to make the claims that he made in his article.

Journalists do know how to poke and prod their way into a lot of information, but sealed court documents? That's a no go.

 

[egd27]

True but it could be something as simple as confirming an alibi for one hour of one night.

It could be. Why would McCauley hold a grudge over that then?

Note: I agree the NHL should not be assigning McCauley to Leaf playoff games whether there is actual bias or not due to the nature of their connection.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

If McCauley doesn't have any bias against Keefe or the Leafs, we are only left to conclude that he's pretty damned incompetent. Picking Bunting out of scrums as the lone culprit as he did during the season, calling goals that he obviously didn't see go in the net as he did on the 5th goal, calling a crosscheck on Schenn when no stick was used but a forearm, and a ticky-tack slash on Kampf, which was followed by an equal and more obvious slash by the Tampa player a second later, just when we had the momentum of getting back in the game.

Stop defending this turd ... he's either biased against the Leafs or an incompetent ref. Gotta be one or the other.

Da family are Leaf fans my friend .. Wes is a TO guy .. his dad set him up .. Wes is only TO ref left in playoffs (other TO ref did not make playoff roster) .. Wes is a great ref .. likely best one in NHL .. his performance marks in junior and pro hockey have always been top of class like #1 top of class most years

 

[seventieslord]

True but it could be something as simple as confirming an alibi for one hour of one night.


Journalists do know how to poke and prod their way into a lot of information, but sealed court documents? That's a no go.

He didn't have to access sealed Court documents. He simply had to know who was the right person to ask who testified for the defense and who testified for the prosecution. This is the poking and prodding you're referring to.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Da family are Leaf fans my friend .. Wes is a TO guy .. his dad set him up .. Wes is only TO ref left in playoffs (other TO ref did not make playoff roster) .. Wes is a great ref .. likely best one in NHL .. his performance marks in junior and pro hockey have always been top of class like #1 top of class most years

Ahhh, ok, then he's biased against the Leafs......got it. Orrr, I just thought of something. He's just pretending to be incompetent during Leaf games because being the only TO ref left he doesn't want to give the impression that he favours the Leafs in any way cause his family are Leaf fans. Nah, not buying it. He's just an a-hole who wants to put his imprint on Leaf games.

 

[hoglund]

View attachment 691567

source: Fan reveals that there is a conflict of interest between Sheldon Keefe and Wes McCauley

David Frost is Wes McCauley's brother in law. Frost abused Keefe and others for years in Jr that even extended to later years.

If this is a legitimate article, then yes he should be banned from officiating the Leafs or any NHL game.