Re-tooling For One More Run With This Core

[Dreakmur]

Schneider and Foote are playing prominent roles? Liljegren was playing 8 mins more per game than Schneider and Foote...

Liljegren was knocked out of the lineup by Justin Holl.... and since Keefe has a high winning percentage, that must have been the correct decision....

 

[hamzarocks]

let's trade a generational talent for a 16 year old that may be good. Jesus..

Bedard ceiling isn't matthews it's McDavid

He's the next one now level prospect similar to McDavid was when Crosby was dominating

Matthews is a franchise superstar and a top 3 player in the world past two years but Bedard is supposed to be better than him

I'd make that trade at the draft next year if we get out in the 1st round. Retool around Bedard and get rid of the current core 4 for younger players at diff positions.

Hopefully Matthews and the boys win next year and he's super happy with the team so we can avoid the potential JT scenario where he can hold us hostage if he wants going into his final year

if the 'core' is Matthews and Marner (and Reilly), then we have may have 10+ more runs with this core, else we have as many runs as Tavares has years left with 'this' core, and we're better off than the majority of the league with our 'core'.

We're a guaranteed 1st round victory for whoever faces us.

We're better than 16 teams for certain. And in the grouping with another 6-8.

So yea numbers wise were routinely the 18-24thth best team in the league when factoring playoffs but were not where we need to be and there is really no reason to expect anything to change with no changes being made to the core/coaching/management.

It's all prayers and dreams for us. Nothing tangible to suggest we can beat Tampa or flordia next year in the 1st round

 

[Trapper]

I don't think the team can afford to just write off the rest of Matthews contract like that waiting for assets to develop. They need to maximize competitiveness now.

It’s already started. We have 2 years until this phase is done but it’s started now.
7.5 million Morgan Rielly is not better than 5 million Rielly. For the extra money he doesn’t suddenly become Hedman. He is the same as we’ve had.

Matthews/Nylander will be UFA in 2 years.
Again, 13/14 mil Matthews and 9/10 mil Nylander aren’t suddenly champions. They just make more money because the salary isn’t going down.

The clock is ticking on this phase. ELC done. This current phase. 2 years and counting. Will they win a round this year?

 

[notbias]

Liljegren was knocked out of the lineup by Justin Holl.... and since Keefe has a high winning percentage, that must have been the correct decision....

Schneider and Foote are not impact players, which was the claim. Playing 11 minutes per night does not scream "impact". Not sure what your point was here, I was just saying Liljegren was playing 8 minutes more per night than both, also, not his fault that we have 7 NHL D.

It’s already started. We have 2 years until this phase is done but it’s started now.
7.5 million Morgan Rielly is not better than 5 million Rielly. For the extra money he doesn’t suddenly become Hedman. He is the same as we’ve had.

Matthews/Nylander will be UFA in 2 years.
Again, 13/14 mil Matthews and 9/10 mil Nylander aren’t suddenly champions. They just make more money because the salary isn’t going down.

The clock is ticking on this phase. ELC done. This current phase. 2 years and counting. Will they win a round this year?

How is Nylander getting 10 million? That's insane.

 

[Dreakmur]

Schneider and Foote are not impact players, which was the claim. Playing 11 minutes per night does not scream "impact". Not sure what your point was here, I was just saying Liljegren was playing 8 minutes more per night than both, also, not his fault that we have 7 NHL D.

Playing 12-13 minutes is more impactful than sitting in the press box.

None of them were impact players.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

It’s already started. We have 2 years until this phase is done but it’s started now.
7.5 million Morgan Rielly is not better than 5 million Rielly. For the extra money he doesn’t suddenly become Hedman. He is the same as we’ve had.

Matthews/Nylander will be UFA in 2 years.
Again, 13/14 mil Matthews and 9/10 mil Nylander aren’t suddenly champions. They just make more money because the salary isn’t going down.

The clock is ticking on this phase. ELC done. This current phase. 2 years and counting. Will they win a round this year?

The only guy who should be getting a raise is Willy. He played on a deal that was reasonable if not under valued. AM and MM got their cookies early. If they insist on getting 20% raises...they are not serious about winning. I read that AM and MM both pull in around $2.5M in endorsements. Do they not realize they would be pulling in 2x that if they won here?
I for one will never buy a product that MM endorses because of the way he bent the team over...but I am sure some people might.

How is Nylander getting 10 million? That's insane.

If Evander Kane is looking at $8M....it's easy to think he can get around $10M by some GM. I predict Willy will really fly once he is on a team where he is the center piece.

 

[Trapper]

Schneider and Foote are not impact players, which was the claim. Playing 11 minutes per night does not scream "impact". Not sure what your point was here, I was just saying Liljegren was playing 8 minutes more per night than both, also, not his fault that we have 7 NHL D.



How is Nylander getting 10 million? That's insane.

Because he is UFA.
Tavares makes 11 million and Nylander had more points than JT. 80 points Willy, 76 Tavares.
Kyle Dubas.

 

[Racer88]

Schneider and Foote are not impact players, which was the claim. Playing 11 minutes per night does not scream "impact". Not sure what your point was here, I was just saying Liljegren was playing 8 minutes more per night than both, also, not his fault that we have 7 NHL D.



How is Nylander getting 10 million? That's insane.

No more insane then Tavares getting 11 and Marner getting almost 11.

 

[notbias]

The only guy who should be getting a raise is Willy. He played on a deal that was reasonable if not under valued. AM and MM got their cookies early. If they insist on getting 20% raises...they are not serious about winning. I read that AM and MM both pull in around $2.5M in endorsements. Do they not realize they would be pulling in 2x that if they won here?
I for one will never buy a product that MM endorses because of the way he bent the team over...but I am sure some people might.


If Evander Kane is looking at $8M....it's easy to think he can get around $10M by some GM. I predict Willy will really fly once he is on a team where he is the center piece.

Kane can ask for what he wants, I don't see 8 million happening.

Because he is UFA.
Tavares makes 11 million and Nylander had more points than JT. 80 points Willy, 76 Tavares.
Kyle Dubas.

So are we just pretending that Nylander has been a consistent 80pt player?

No more insane then Tavares getting 11 and Marner getting almost 11.

Tavares > Nylander as a UFA, Tavares was an 80pt center who played with terrible players. Also, Marner had better stats too.

Just for reference in the 5 years leading up to him signing with the Leafs Tavares had 372 pts in 378 games.

In Nylander's last 5 he has 269 pts in 336 games.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Tavares > Nylander as a UFA, Tavares was an 80pt center who played with terrible players. Also, Marner had better stats too.

Just for reference in the 5 years leading up to him signing with the Leafs Tavares had 372 pts in 378 games.

In Nylander's last 5 he has 269 pts in 336 games.

If he has two more 80 point seasons and the cap takes a decent-sized jump for 24-25, he just might command $10M.

 

[ULF_55]

If he has two more 80 point seasons and the cap takes a decent-sized jump for 24-25, he just might command $10M.

If I were Nylander I would not stay in Toronto.

I'd look for a team that has better cohesion and management.

 

[notbias]

If he has two more 80 point seasons and the cap takes a decent-sized jump for 24-25, he just might command $10M.

sure, if he does that, there can be a discussion, but thinking he is getting 10 million based on his current career is crazy.

Let's see what Gaudreau gets since he is a better version of Nylander, a soft player who puts up points, he also just had a monster season.

 

[Trapper]

sure, if he does that, there can be a discussion, but thinking he is getting 10 million based on his current career is crazy.

Let's see what Gaudreau gets since he is a better version of Nylander, a soft player who puts up points, he also just had a monster season.

2 years and our cap structure are going to be determining factors more so than Johnny Hockey in Calgary.

How many million less that the other 3 do you think Nylander should make if he maintains an 80 + point and has more points than JT in those 2 years?
10 million is still less than the other 3.

He already makes 4 million less for the next 2 years. He will be UFA. Isn’t that the time to cash in? Buffalo paid Skinner 9 million UFA.

 

[notbias]

2 years and our cap structure are going to be determining factors more so than Johnny Hockey in Calgary.

How many million less that the other 3 do you think Nylander should make if he maintains an 80 + point and has more points than JT in those 2 years?
10 million is still less than the other 3.

He already makes 4 million less for the next 2 years. He will be UFA. Isn’t that the time to cash in?

Do you think his comparable is JT at the end of his contract and not the start? What logic is this?

 

[Gabriel426]

Reading at what Steph Curry said, ‘I don’t rank my performance. Just win the game.’ That’s should be in the Leafs locker room.

 

[hamzarocks]

sure, if he does that, there can be a discussion, but thinking he is getting 10 million based on his current career is crazy.

Let's see what Gaudreau gets since he is a better version of Nylander, a soft player who puts up points, he also just had a monster season.

Gaudreau is a marner comp not Willy

Gaudreau even before this year had 2 or 3 years of being a top 10 point producer similar to Marner

Nylander while a great player has 1 ppg year where league scoring was very high and he wasn't in the top 20 pt producers in the league.

Nylanders deal should be matched with Fiala, Reinhart, Ehlers when they get their UFA deals

 

[Trapper]

Do you think his comparable is JT at the end of his contract and not the start? What logic is this?

I’m comparing to the team salary structure and where other UFAs have gone.
Again, Jeff Skinner got 9 mil. Do you think Nylander is better?

Then there is also the internal salary structure your GM created.
Again I ask, how many million less is Nylander worth? 4 million? 2 million?
What is Kane going to make? 8? 8.5? Is Nylander better?

Don’t forget thanks to your GM, Matthews is also UFA the same year. What does he make? 13 +? Is Nylander comparable at 3 million less?

Nylander also holds all the cards. UFA. He can walk for an 8.5 offer.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Reading at what Steph Curry said, ‘I don’t rank my performance. Just win the game.’ That’s should be in the Leafs locker room.

He's got Guy Lafleur-level ice-water in his veins. Ignores every distraction and just keeps playing.

 

[Morbo]

if the 'core' is Matthews and Marner (and Reilly), then we have may have 10+ more runs with this core, else we have as many runs as Tavares has years left with 'this' core, and we're better off than the majority of the league with our 'core'.

the real core is 34 and 16. they're the only players we have that most other teams don't have.

 

[Antropovsky]

the real core is 34 and 16. they're the only players we have that most other teams don't have.

I don't agree, I think their collective hit together cancels our their value. 21 million for two players is bad cap management. We have to compete with Kucherov, Stamkos, Hedman. Vasi. Point making 8.5, 9.5, 9.5, 7.8, 10.5 - 45.8 million

Marner 11, matthews 11.5, Nylander 7,Tavares 11, Rielly 7.5- 48 million

My math may be slightly off.

Their 5 is considerably better than our top 5 and ours makes a few million more than theirs.

Problem is Marner, Matthews and Tavares were selfish and didn't think of "winning" when they signed their contracts. Meanwhile Mackinnon has been saying for a while that he will take less to continue to be competitive. Makar certainly could've gotten more than 9 million if he wanted. Fox could've gotten more than 9.5 if he wanted.... etc etc.

We have an excellent core but the majority of them are 1-2 million overpaid and we have watched our depth player quality diminish quickly. Chicago had the same happen after their cup win... there is only so long that you get lucky and replace a proven player with a cheaper one. Dubas did great with Kampf, but failed on Ritchie. Kase was OK but he was cheap because of injuries and overall his injuries probably effected our ability to win this year. Engvall and Mikheyev became solid contributors, finally have developed but before we can reap their full benefit we will likely lose them to ufa. Now we must find their cheap replacements and hope to get lucky.

When Marner said "we are tired of this feeling".... I feel no sympathy, because everybody knew when he held out for every last penny that this was the likely outcome .... a team not able to ice a good enough roster. There were plenty of articles saying it. It bugs me because we are close...it shows how instrumental their paydays were to this team.

"We are tired of this feeling" .....we.... pffft.

Matthews could have easily gotten more though, and didn't try to. Which is why I don't care about his contract.... Marner... that guy tried his hardest to get as much as he could and I'm convinced he only took the leafs offer because offersheets were worse than what he twisted from the Leafs.

 

[notbias]

I’m comparing to the team salary structure and where other UFAs have gone.
Again, Jeff Skinner got 9 mil. Do you think Nylander is better?

Then there is also the internal salary structure your GM created.
Again I ask, how many million less is Nylander worth? 4 million? 2 million?
What is Kane going to make? 8? 8.5? Is Nylander better?

Don’t forget thanks to your GM, Matthews is also UFA the same year. What does he make? 13 +? Is Nylander comparable at 3 million less?

Nylander also holds all the cards. UFA. He can walk for an 8.5 offer.

Yes thanks to the GM the big contracts are staggered, I am very happy about that, Brodie and Muzzin are also off the books that year.

Why bring up Skinner? That's like me saying "well Kucherov took 9.5 and he was arguably the best winger at the time, so Nylander will probably take 7".

How many millions less is Nylander worth than Tavares at the time of signing? 3 million maybe...

Nylander does not hold all the cards, he can't just request a salary and someone will pay it, teams have to agree, if he is asking for too much, he can walk. You're complaining about Tavares and then in the same sentence saying we should sign Nylander to an outrageous contract.

 

[notbias]

I don't agree, I think their collective hit together cancels our their value. 21 million for two players is bad cap management. We have to compete with Kucherov, Stamkos, Hedman. Vasi. Point making 8.5, 9.5, 9.5, 7.8, 10.5 - 45.8 million

Marner 11, matthews 11.5, Nylander 7,Tavares 11, Rielly 7.5- 48 million

My math may be slightly off.

Their 5 is considerably better than our top 5 and ours makes a few million more than theirs.

Problem is Marner, Matthews and Tavares were selfish and didn't think of "winning" when they signed their contracts. Meanwhile Mackinnon has been saying for a while that he will take less to continue to be competitive. Makar certainly could've gotten more than 9 million if he wanted. Fox could've gotten more than 9.5 if he wanted.... etc etc.

We have an excellent core but the majority of them are 1-2 million overpaid and we have watched our depth player quality diminish quickly. Chicago had the same happen after their cup win... there is only so long that you get lucky and replace a proven player with a cheaper one. Dubas did great with Kampf, but failed on Ritchie. Kase was OK but he was cheap because of injuries and overall his injuries probably effected our ability to win this year. Engvall and Mikheyev became solid contributors, finally have developed but before we can reap their full benefit we will likely lose them to ufa. Now we must find their cheap replacements and hope to get lucky.

When Marner said "we are tired of this feeling".... I feel no sympathy, because everybody knew when he held out for every last penny that this was the likely outcome .... a team not able to ice a good enough roster. There were plenty of articles saying it. It bugs me because we are close...it shows how instrumental their paydays were to this team.

"We are tired of this feeling" .....we... he wasn't thinking about the rest of the teams feelings when he made sure to get overpaid.

I just want to be clear, Marner is overpaid by a couple million, but Fox who is making 9.5 has seasons of 47pts in 55 and 42pts in 70, and the 47 in 55 was propped up by the powerplay, he deserved the 9.5 per, but 94pt Marner got overpaid.

Fox is an amazing player, but 9.5 is a lot for 125 games where you put up 89pts, they were betting on his potential and it paid off.

 

[Antropovsky]

I just want to be clear, Marner is overpaid by a couple million, but Fox who is making 9.5 has seasons of 47pts in 55 and 42pts in 70, and the 47 in 55 was propped up by the powerplay, he deserved the 9.5 per, but 94pt Marner got overpaid.

Fox is an amazing player, but 9.5 is a lot for 125 games where you put up 89pts, they were betting on his potential and it paid off.

Fox won the Norris trophy....before his contract. If he wanted he could've gotten 10.5, but he wanted to be in NYC.

 

[ULF_55]

Kucherov 9.5, Stamkos 8.5, Hedman 7.9, Vasi 9.5, Point 9.5 = 45.8 million (Actual 44.9)

Marner 11, matthews 11.5,Tavares 11, Rielly 7.5, Nylander 7 = 48 million

My math may be slightly off.

Is this like the Sesame Street quizz ... 3 of these are not like the other...

 

[ULF_55]

Fox won the Norris trophy....before his contract. If he wanted he could've gotten 10.5, but he wanted to be in NYC.

So considered the best at least once?

So didn't get paid based on hope.